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2nd DAW for alternative music making from Logic (Live Chosen)

2

Comments

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    @klownshed said:
    I’d say take a look at Reason.

    You can use it as a second separate and independent DAW with all the patching and cool stuff you can build in the racks and you can also use the racks as a plugin inside Logic.

    If you end up not liking Reason as a DAW you get to keep all the cool synths, samplers, fx and and stuff inside Logic or any other DAW.

    Probably should have mentioned that I have bought Reason, but not really managed to appreciate it as a DAW yet, but as you say it's cool as a plug in anyway. As I got it in a sale at about £158 it's been a bit of a bargain to be honest!

    If I want a break from the timeline and just want to have a bit of a jam, Reason is great. I ignore the timeline and build things in the rack with the various sequencers and drum machines, patching stuff together and making the patch cables bounce when you switch the rack around aimlessly!

    Also why not try using Logic in Live Loops mode with reason plugins for all the sounds and fx and hide the arrange window? That’ll feel like a new DAW ;-)

    I personally think you have more than enough to explore for years with just Logic and Reason.

    I bet there are a ton of instruments and fx you’ve never even loaded between the two of them.

    Get to know Logic inside out and forget the grass being greener unless you like playing with stuff more than making music — and I mean that in a nice way honestly! Playing with all this tech is fun. But if you want to get music done, pick one and stick with it. Switching will just be a way to burn time and money. :-)

    And I know everything you just said makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure I've spent an awful lot of time and money and I need not have done in this hobby. Sometimes I think it's got something to do with my illness - actually I know it has! Since my headpains went acute and I spend at least 20% of my life in pain, I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    I know you are right with 'pick one and learn it' for the best results, but for myself the journey is the thing and the destination (in this case finished polished tracks) is less important to me.

    My headphones have just arrived and I'm getting a microphone next month, so adding vocals to the fun of music making - every month a new adventure lol

  • oldsynthguyoldsynthguy
    edited October 2025

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    While I've not used a lot of AUV3s since getting my Mac, I have used the Icegear and Moog apps quite a bit and would miss those ones

    Worth double-checking to see which ones you already have that are compatible - recent 4Pockets are often universal - I use RingsFX, Wavecloud, and Oscidia all the time in Ableton for example, Salome, Solderbox and Patterning 3 also favourites. Apesoft apps are universal. Plus Logic supports AU MIDI as well, so in there I can use polyBud, StepPolyArp, 4Pockets Euclidean, Kaleidoscope, Progressions etc., Octochron, Piano Motifs...

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    Ditto. You never know what's around the corner, and I get a ridiculous amount of pleasure from this relatively cheap hobby - I've got mates who spend more on a single day out at a rugby match, than my whole year's app purchases!

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @oldsynthguy said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    While I've not used a lot of AUV3s since getting my Mac, I have used the Icegear and Moog apps quite a bit and would miss those ones

    Worth double-checking to see which ones you already have that are compatible - recent 4Pockets are often universal - I use RingsFX, Wavecloud, and Oscidia all the time in Ableton for example, Salome, Solderbox and Patterning 3 also favourites. Apesoft apps are universal. Plus Logic supports AU MIDI as well, so in there I can use polyBud, StepPolyArp, 4Pockets Euclidean, Kaleidoscope, Progressions etc., Octochron, Piano Motifs...

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    Ditto. You never know what's around the corner, and I get a ridiculous amount of pleasure from this relatively cheap hobby - I've got mates who spend more on a single day out at a rugby match, than my whole year's app purchases!

    Yes it can be done pretty cheaply these days. I'm sure I spent more on what I could do less with back in the day when most of my music hobby consisted of large hardware units and miles of cables lol.

    I did download all my available iPad apps to start with, but I've found that some are very unreliable and I'm steadily going to work through them in time to see which ones work reliably.

    I've not downloaded any drum apps, cant even remember which ones work on Mac - I just tend to use Ableton Link and sync my iPad up with the Mac - works quite well, especially as my mouse will go from the Mac to iPad like it's a second screen!

  • klownshedklownshed
    edited October 2025

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    @klownshed said:
    I’d say take a look at Reason.

    You can use it as a second separate and independent DAW with all the patching and cool stuff you can build in the racks and you can also use the racks as a plugin inside Logic.

    If you end up not liking Reason as a DAW you get to keep all the cool synths, samplers, fx and and stuff inside Logic or any other DAW.

    Probably should have mentioned that I have bought Reason, but not really managed to appreciate it as a DAW yet, but as you say it's cool as a plug in anyway. As I got it in a sale at about £158 it's been a bit of a bargain to be honest!

    If I want a break from the timeline and just want to have a bit of a jam, Reason is great. I ignore the timeline and build things in the rack with the various sequencers and drum machines, patching stuff together and making the patch cables bounce when you switch the rack around aimlessly!

    Also why not try using Logic in Live Loops mode with reason plugins for all the sounds and fx and hide the arrange window? That’ll feel like a new DAW ;-)

    I personally think you have more than enough to explore for years with just Logic and Reason.

    I bet there are a ton of instruments and fx you’ve never even loaded between the two of them.

    Get to know Logic inside out and forget the grass being greener unless you like playing with stuff more than making music — and I mean that in a nice way honestly! Playing with all this tech is fun. But if you want to get music done, pick one and stick with it. Switching will just be a way to burn time and money. :-)

    And I know everything you just said makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure I've spent an awful lot of time and money and I need not have done in this hobby. Sometimes I think it's got something to do with my illness - actually I know it has! Since my headpains went acute and I spend at least 20% of my life in pain, I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    I know you are right with 'pick one and learn it' for the best results, but for myself the journey is the thing and the destination (in this case finished polished tracks) is less important to me.

    My headphones have just arrived and I'm getting a microphone next month, so adding vocals to the fun of music making - every month a new adventure lol

    That’s exactly why I caveated that by saying unless you enjoy trying all the cool things. There’s nothing wrong with that, there are so many cool shiny things to try.

    I had a brief flirtation with Digital Performer at the beginning of the time sequencers became DAWs and it was really great for audio even back then.

    But by then I was hooked on the info/parameter panel and non-destructive editing in the arrange window in Logic. Everything else feels slow when I can’t adjust parameters on the fly like that.

    Since then I’m even more entrenched in Logic. It gets out of my way when I’m making and arranging music in a way that’s not worth messing with.

    I’m also so familiar with the stock plugins that it would cost me a fortune to switch as I’d need to replace the EQ, compressors and reverbs, etc. I use so many stock plugins and they’re really, really good. Just replacing QRS the would cost as much as the whole of Logic :lol:

    I still think switching DAWs is counter productive — I’d be spending my money on things like cool VIs, sample libraries, maybe a portable Groovebox, analogue synths, drum machines, a new guitar — I can’t help thinking if you have a ‘home’ for music where you naturally and instinctively make all your music it will make the journey more fun and fulfilling as it establishes a firm foundation. Once you have solid footings all the rest of the stuff makes more sense. In my very humble opinion. :-)

    No harm in trying out all the free trials though.

    I think I may still have a code for a free version of Bitwig 8 if you want it? DM me if you want the code.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    @klownshed said:
    I’d say take a look at Reason.

    You can use it as a second separate and independent DAW with all the patching and cool stuff you can build in the racks and you can also use the racks as a plugin inside Logic.

    If you end up not liking Reason as a DAW you get to keep all the cool synths, samplers, fx and and stuff inside Logic or any other DAW.

    Probably should have mentioned that I have bought Reason, but not really managed to appreciate it as a DAW yet, but as you say it's cool as a plug in anyway. As I got it in a sale at about £158 it's been a bit of a bargain to be honest!

    If I want a break from the timeline and just want to have a bit of a jam, Reason is great. I ignore the timeline and build things in the rack with the various sequencers and drum machines, patching stuff together and making the patch cables bounce when you switch the rack around aimlessly!

    Also why not try using Logic in Live Loops mode with reason plugins for all the sounds and fx and hide the arrange window? That’ll feel like a new DAW ;-)

    I personally think you have more than enough to explore for years with just Logic and Reason.

    I bet there are a ton of instruments and fx you’ve never even loaded between the two of them.

    Get to know Logic inside out and forget the grass being greener unless you like playing with stuff more than making music — and I mean that in a nice way honestly! Playing with all this tech is fun. But if you want to get music done, pick one and stick with it. Switching will just be a way to burn time and money. :-)

    And I know everything you just said makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure I've spent an awful lot of time and money and I need not have done in this hobby. Sometimes I think it's got something to do with my illness - actually I know it has! Since my headpains went acute and I spend at least 20% of my life in pain, I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    I know you are right with 'pick one and learn it' for the best results, but for myself the journey is the thing and the destination (in this case finished polished tracks) is less important to me.

    My headphones have just arrived and I'm getting a microphone next month, so adding vocals to the fun of music making - every month a new adventure lol

    That’s exactly why I caveated that by saying unless you enjoy trying all the cool things. There’s nothing wrong with that, there are so many cool shiny things to try.

    I had a brief flirtation with Digital Performer at the beginning of the time sequencers became DAWs and it was really great for audio even back then.

    But by then I was hooked on the info/parameter panel and non-destructive editing in the arrange window in Logic. Everything else feels slow when I can’t adjust parameters on the fly like that.

    Since then I’m even more entrenched in Logic. It gets out of my way when I’m making and arranging music in a way that’s not worth messing with.

    I’m also so familiar with the stock plugins that it would cost me a fortune to switch as I’d need to replace the EQ, compressors and reverbs, etc. I use so many stock plugins and they’re really, really good. Just replacing QRS the would cost as much as the whole of Logic :lol:

    I still think switching DAWs is counter productive — I’d be spending my money on things like cool VIs, sample libraries, maybe a portable Groovebox, analogue synths, drum machines, a new guitar — I can’t help thinking if you have a ‘home’ for music where you naturally and instinctively make all your music it will make the journey more fun and fulfilling as it establishes a firm foundation. Once you have solid footings all the rest of the stuff makes more sense. In my very humble opinion. :-)

    Yes and I do appreciate you commenting with your thoughts. I'm always interested in how others enjoy and get the best from this hobby (or business for some). Don't mention new analogue synths though, as I was eyeing up some high end synths for ages, until my wife decided we should spend a few grand on new camping gear!

  • klownshedklownshed
    edited October 2025

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    @klownshed said:
    I’d say take a look at Reason.

    You can use it as a second separate and independent DAW with all the patching and cool stuff you can build in the racks and you can also use the racks as a plugin inside Logic.

    If you end up not liking Reason as a DAW you get to keep all the cool synths, samplers, fx and and stuff inside Logic or any other DAW.

    Probably should have mentioned that I have bought Reason, but not really managed to appreciate it as a DAW yet, but as you say it's cool as a plug in anyway. As I got it in a sale at about £158 it's been a bit of a bargain to be honest!

    If I want a break from the timeline and just want to have a bit of a jam, Reason is great. I ignore the timeline and build things in the rack with the various sequencers and drum machines, patching stuff together and making the patch cables bounce when you switch the rack around aimlessly!

    Also why not try using Logic in Live Loops mode with reason plugins for all the sounds and fx and hide the arrange window? That’ll feel like a new DAW ;-)

    I personally think you have more than enough to explore for years with just Logic and Reason.

    I bet there are a ton of instruments and fx you’ve never even loaded between the two of them.

    Get to know Logic inside out and forget the grass being greener unless you like playing with stuff more than making music — and I mean that in a nice way honestly! Playing with all this tech is fun. But if you want to get music done, pick one and stick with it. Switching will just be a way to burn time and money. :-)

    And I know everything you just said makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure I've spent an awful lot of time and money and I need not have done in this hobby. Sometimes I think it's got something to do with my illness - actually I know it has! Since my headpains went acute and I spend at least 20% of my life in pain, I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    I know you are right with 'pick one and learn it' for the best results, but for myself the journey is the thing and the destination (in this case finished polished tracks) is less important to me.

    My headphones have just arrived and I'm getting a microphone next month, so adding vocals to the fun of music making - every month a new adventure lol

    That’s exactly why I caveated that by saying unless you enjoy trying all the cool things. There’s nothing wrong with that, there are so many cool shiny things to try.

    I had a brief flirtation with Digital Performer at the beginning of the time sequencers became DAWs and it was really great for audio even back then.

    But by then I was hooked on the info/parameter panel and non-destructive editing in the arrange window in Logic. Everything else feels slow when I can’t adjust parameters on the fly like that.

    Since then I’m even more entrenched in Logic. It gets out of my way when I’m making and arranging music in a way that’s not worth messing with.

    I’m also so familiar with the stock plugins that it would cost me a fortune to switch as I’d need to replace the EQ, compressors and reverbs, etc. I use so many stock plugins and they’re really, really good. Just replacing QRS the would cost as much as the whole of Logic :lol:

    I still think switching DAWs is counter productive — I’d be spending my money on things like cool VIs, sample libraries, maybe a portable Groovebox, analogue synths, drum machines, a new guitar — I can’t help thinking if you have a ‘home’ for music where you naturally and instinctively make all your music it will make the journey more fun and fulfilling as it establishes a firm foundation. Once you have solid footings all the rest of the stuff makes more sense. In my very humble opinion. :-)

    Yes and I do appreciate you commenting with your thoughts. I'm always interested in how others enjoy and get the best from this hobby (or business for some). Don't mention new analogue synths though, as I was eyeing up some high end synths for ages, until my wife decided we should spend a few grand on new camping gear!

    I edited my post after you replied to it, not sure if you missed the last bit.

    I have an unredeemed code for Bitwig 8 Track, the lite version of bitwig which might be worth trying — you’ll at least know if you want more :-) it’s yours if you want it…

  • oldsynthguyoldsynthguy

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    I did download all my available iPad apps to start with, but I've found that some are very unreliable and I'm steadily going to work through them in time to see which ones work reliably.

    They were pretty hit and miss a few years back, but most have now sorted out the glitches. RingsFX for example works perfectly on my Mac, and a bargain compared to dedicated desktop VST equivalents.

    Saying that though, this lot are seriously tempting my wallet: https://www.tracktion.com/products/kontrast

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    @klownshed said:
    I’d say take a look at Reason.

    You can use it as a second separate and independent DAW with all the patching and cool stuff you can build in the racks and you can also use the racks as a plugin inside Logic.

    If you end up not liking Reason as a DAW you get to keep all the cool synths, samplers, fx and and stuff inside Logic or any other DAW.

    Probably should have mentioned that I have bought Reason, but not really managed to appreciate it as a DAW yet, but as you say it's cool as a plug in anyway. As I got it in a sale at about £158 it's been a bit of a bargain to be honest!

    If I want a break from the timeline and just want to have a bit of a jam, Reason is great. I ignore the timeline and build things in the rack with the various sequencers and drum machines, patching stuff together and making the patch cables bounce when you switch the rack around aimlessly!

    Also why not try using Logic in Live Loops mode with reason plugins for all the sounds and fx and hide the arrange window? That’ll feel like a new DAW ;-)

    I personally think you have more than enough to explore for years with just Logic and Reason.

    I bet there are a ton of instruments and fx you’ve never even loaded between the two of them.

    Get to know Logic inside out and forget the grass being greener unless you like playing with stuff more than making music — and I mean that in a nice way honestly! Playing with all this tech is fun. But if you want to get music done, pick one and stick with it. Switching will just be a way to burn time and money. :-)

    And I know everything you just said makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure I've spent an awful lot of time and money and I need not have done in this hobby. Sometimes I think it's got something to do with my illness - actually I know it has! Since my headpains went acute and I spend at least 20% of my life in pain, I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    I know you are right with 'pick one and learn it' for the best results, but for myself the journey is the thing and the destination (in this case finished polished tracks) is less important to me.

    My headphones have just arrived and I'm getting a microphone next month, so adding vocals to the fun of music making - every month a new adventure lol

    That’s exactly why I caveated that by saying unless you enjoy trying all the cool things. There’s nothing wrong with that, there are so many cool shiny things to try.

    I had a brief flirtation with Digital Performer at the beginning of the time sequencers became DAWs and it was really great for audio even back then.

    But by then I was hooked on the info/parameter panel and non-destructive editing in the arrange window in Logic. Everything else feels slow when I can’t adjust parameters on the fly like that.

    Since then I’m even more entrenched in Logic. It gets out of my way when I’m making and arranging music in a way that’s not worth messing with.

    I’m also so familiar with the stock plugins that it would cost me a fortune to switch as I’d need to replace the EQ, compressors and reverbs, etc. I use so many stock plugins and they’re really, really good. Just replacing QRS the would cost as much as the whole of Logic :lol:

    I still think switching DAWs is counter productive — I’d be spending my money on things like cool VIs, sample libraries, maybe a portable Groovebox, analogue synths, drum machines, a new guitar — I can’t help thinking if you have a ‘home’ for music where you naturally and instinctively make all your music it will make the journey more fun and fulfilling as it establishes a firm foundation. Once you have solid footings all the rest of the stuff makes more sense. In my very humble opinion. :-)

    Yes and I do appreciate you commenting with your thoughts. I'm always interested in how others enjoy and get the best from this hobby (or business for some). Don't mention new analogue synths though, as I was eyeing up some high end synths for ages, until my wife decided we should spend a few grand on new camping gear!

    I edited my post after you replied to it, not sure if you missed the last bit.

    I have an unredeemed code for Bitwig 8 Track, the lite version of bitwig which might be worth trying — you’ll at least know if you want more :-) it’s yours if you want it…

    Yes, I did miss the edit. I have a free download of the cut down version of Ableton Live which I'm downloading now and going to try first, then next week I would like to try Bitwig, so yes I would like the code thanks

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919
    edited October 2025

    @oldsynthguy said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    I did download all my available iPad apps to start with, but I've found that some are very unreliable and I'm steadily going to work through them in time to see which ones work reliably.

    They were pretty hit and miss a few years back, but most have now sorted out the glitches. RingsFX for example works perfectly on my Mac, and a bargain compared to dedicated desktop VST equivalents.

    Saying that though, this lot are seriously tempting my wallet: https://www.tracktion.com/products/kontrast

    Yes that Kontrast reminds me a bit of PPG WaveGenerator I have on my iPad - it isn't updated anymore or even sold, so it does work perfectly now. I did recently get Hive 2 and TVS Pro which both are a lot of fun

  • klownshedklownshed

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    @klownshed said:
    I’d say take a look at Reason.

    You can use it as a second separate and independent DAW with all the patching and cool stuff you can build in the racks and you can also use the racks as a plugin inside Logic.

    If you end up not liking Reason as a DAW you get to keep all the cool synths, samplers, fx and and stuff inside Logic or any other DAW.

    Probably should have mentioned that I have bought Reason, but not really managed to appreciate it as a DAW yet, but as you say it's cool as a plug in anyway. As I got it in a sale at about £158 it's been a bit of a bargain to be honest!

    If I want a break from the timeline and just want to have a bit of a jam, Reason is great. I ignore the timeline and build things in the rack with the various sequencers and drum machines, patching stuff together and making the patch cables bounce when you switch the rack around aimlessly!

    Also why not try using Logic in Live Loops mode with reason plugins for all the sounds and fx and hide the arrange window? That’ll feel like a new DAW ;-)

    I personally think you have more than enough to explore for years with just Logic and Reason.

    I bet there are a ton of instruments and fx you’ve never even loaded between the two of them.

    Get to know Logic inside out and forget the grass being greener unless you like playing with stuff more than making music — and I mean that in a nice way honestly! Playing with all this tech is fun. But if you want to get music done, pick one and stick with it. Switching will just be a way to burn time and money. :-)

    And I know everything you just said makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure I've spent an awful lot of time and money and I need not have done in this hobby. Sometimes I think it's got something to do with my illness - actually I know it has! Since my headpains went acute and I spend at least 20% of my life in pain, I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    I know you are right with 'pick one and learn it' for the best results, but for myself the journey is the thing and the destination (in this case finished polished tracks) is less important to me.

    My headphones have just arrived and I'm getting a microphone next month, so adding vocals to the fun of music making - every month a new adventure lol

    That’s exactly why I caveated that by saying unless you enjoy trying all the cool things. There’s nothing wrong with that, there are so many cool shiny things to try.

    I had a brief flirtation with Digital Performer at the beginning of the time sequencers became DAWs and it was really great for audio even back then.

    But by then I was hooked on the info/parameter panel and non-destructive editing in the arrange window in Logic. Everything else feels slow when I can’t adjust parameters on the fly like that.

    Since then I’m even more entrenched in Logic. It gets out of my way when I’m making and arranging music in a way that’s not worth messing with.

    I’m also so familiar with the stock plugins that it would cost me a fortune to switch as I’d need to replace the EQ, compressors and reverbs, etc. I use so many stock plugins and they’re really, really good. Just replacing QRS the would cost as much as the whole of Logic :lol:

    I still think switching DAWs is counter productive — I’d be spending my money on things like cool VIs, sample libraries, maybe a portable Groovebox, analogue synths, drum machines, a new guitar — I can’t help thinking if you have a ‘home’ for music where you naturally and instinctively make all your music it will make the journey more fun and fulfilling as it establishes a firm foundation. Once you have solid footings all the rest of the stuff makes more sense. In my very humble opinion. :-)

    Yes and I do appreciate you commenting with your thoughts. I'm always interested in how others enjoy and get the best from this hobby (or business for some). Don't mention new analogue synths though, as I was eyeing up some high end synths for ages, until my wife decided we should spend a few grand on new camping gear!

    I edited my post after you replied to it, not sure if you missed the last bit.

    I have an unredeemed code for Bitwig 8 Track, the lite version of bitwig which might be worth trying — you’ll at least know if you want more :-) it’s yours if you want it…

    Yes, I did miss the edit. I have a free download of the cut down version of Ableton Live which I'm downloading now and going to try first, then next week I would like to try Bitwig, so yes I would like the code thanks

    I’ll DM you the code. Have fun.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @klownshed said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    @klownshed said:
    I’d say take a look at Reason.

    You can use it as a second separate and independent DAW with all the patching and cool stuff you can build in the racks and you can also use the racks as a plugin inside Logic.

    If you end up not liking Reason as a DAW you get to keep all the cool synths, samplers, fx and and stuff inside Logic or any other DAW.

    Probably should have mentioned that I have bought Reason, but not really managed to appreciate it as a DAW yet, but as you say it's cool as a plug in anyway. As I got it in a sale at about £158 it's been a bit of a bargain to be honest!

    If I want a break from the timeline and just want to have a bit of a jam, Reason is great. I ignore the timeline and build things in the rack with the various sequencers and drum machines, patching stuff together and making the patch cables bounce when you switch the rack around aimlessly!

    Also why not try using Logic in Live Loops mode with reason plugins for all the sounds and fx and hide the arrange window? That’ll feel like a new DAW ;-)

    I personally think you have more than enough to explore for years with just Logic and Reason.

    I bet there are a ton of instruments and fx you’ve never even loaded between the two of them.

    Get to know Logic inside out and forget the grass being greener unless you like playing with stuff more than making music — and I mean that in a nice way honestly! Playing with all this tech is fun. But if you want to get music done, pick one and stick with it. Switching will just be a way to burn time and money. :-)

    And I know everything you just said makes perfect sense. I'm pretty sure I've spent an awful lot of time and money and I need not have done in this hobby. Sometimes I think it's got something to do with my illness - actually I know it has! Since my headpains went acute and I spend at least 20% of my life in pain, I've come to care less for worrying about money or what I could achieve in life. I tend to just live life for the fun of it now and my hobbies are a great part of that fun.

    I know you are right with 'pick one and learn it' for the best results, but for myself the journey is the thing and the destination (in this case finished polished tracks) is less important to me.

    My headphones have just arrived and I'm getting a microphone next month, so adding vocals to the fun of music making - every month a new adventure lol

    That’s exactly why I caveated that by saying unless you enjoy trying all the cool things. There’s nothing wrong with that, there are so many cool shiny things to try.

    I had a brief flirtation with Digital Performer at the beginning of the time sequencers became DAWs and it was really great for audio even back then.

    But by then I was hooked on the info/parameter panel and non-destructive editing in the arrange window in Logic. Everything else feels slow when I can’t adjust parameters on the fly like that.

    Since then I’m even more entrenched in Logic. It gets out of my way when I’m making and arranging music in a way that’s not worth messing with.

    I’m also so familiar with the stock plugins that it would cost me a fortune to switch as I’d need to replace the EQ, compressors and reverbs, etc. I use so many stock plugins and they’re really, really good. Just replacing QRS the would cost as much as the whole of Logic :lol:

    I still think switching DAWs is counter productive — I’d be spending my money on things like cool VIs, sample libraries, maybe a portable Groovebox, analogue synths, drum machines, a new guitar — I can’t help thinking if you have a ‘home’ for music where you naturally and instinctively make all your music it will make the journey more fun and fulfilling as it establishes a firm foundation. Once you have solid footings all the rest of the stuff makes more sense. In my very humble opinion. :-)

    Yes and I do appreciate you commenting with your thoughts. I'm always interested in how others enjoy and get the best from this hobby (or business for some). Don't mention new analogue synths though, as I was eyeing up some high end synths for ages, until my wife decided we should spend a few grand on new camping gear!

    I edited my post after you replied to it, not sure if you missed the last bit.

    I have an unredeemed code for Bitwig 8 Track, the lite version of bitwig which might be worth trying — you’ll at least know if you want more :-) it’s yours if you want it…

    Yes, I did miss the edit. I have a free download of the cut down version of Ableton Live which I'm downloading now and going to try first, then next week I would like to try Bitwig, so yes I would like the code thanks

    I’ll DM you the code. Have fun.

    Thanks 😊

  • klownshedklownshed
    edited October 2025

    IK @ Humble Bundle.

    https://www.humblebundle.com/software/ultimate-music-production-bundle-encore-software

    Note, not eligible for the group buy. Fairly obviously.

    Miroslav Philharmonic CE for €1 (although I'd pay you €1 to not have it on my system!)

    The basses, drums and Pianos are good. Especially the pianos.

    My recommendation for IK stuff is NEVER INSTALL SampleTank! EVER!

  • SirMcpSirMcp
    edited October 2025

    Arrived to the thread late but between Ableton and Bitwig I would go for Live. I have both and unless you are a modular guy Live suite does more. For modular tinkering then the grid in bitwig might be for you. One other recommendation is Reason. Its very powerful, sounds great, and is a ton of fun. I think multiple daws is an unnecessary expense but People who live in glass houses shouldn’t live next to a stone mine. So i roll with four out of six daws on my mac and i always have one i dont know as well as my eff around relaxation daw. Last year it changed from Reason to FL studio so I can open it up with out expectations and just mess around. Now I expect a serious and productive work flow out of ableton, logic and reason but flstudio is opened and i might make a song or program a device or just build something in their equivalent of the rack/combinator. I never said i was sane but I live in a constant daw party. I used to play video games but now i play flstudio if that makes any sense.

    Oh and i have installed the ik effects and sampletank with miroslav. I dont see what the problem is. The effects are good and sampletank gives you alot of instruments on the cheap. The ethnic/orchestral stuff is nice. But i do live on the edge of insanity so you might not want to try this at home, lol.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @klownshed said:
    IK @ Humble Bundle.

    https://www.humblebundle.com/software/ultimate-music-production-bundle-encore-software

    Note, not eligible for the group buy. Fairly obviously.

    Miroslav Philharmonic CE for €1 (although I'd pay you €1 to not have it on my system!)

    The basses, drums and Pianos are good. Especially the pianos.

    My recommendation for IK stuff is NEVER INSTALL SampleTank! EVER!

    Had problems with IK stuff on ios and have never used their stuff since then lol

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @SirMcp said:
    Arrived to the thread late but between Ableton and Bitwig I would go for Live. I have both and unless you are a modular guy Live suite does more. For modular tinkering then the grid in bitwig might be for you. One other recommendation is Reason. Its very powerful, sounds great, and is a ton of fun. I think multiple daws is an unnecessary expense but People who live in glass houses shouldn’t live next to a stone mine. So i roll with four out of six daws on my mac and i always have one i dont know as well as my eff around relaxation daw. Last year it changed from Reason to FL studio so I can open it up with out expectations and just mess around. Now I expect a serious and productive work flow out of ableton, logic and reason but flstudio is opened and i might make a song or program a device or just build something in their equivalent of the rack/combinator. I never said i was sane but I live in a constant daw party. I used to play video games but now i play flstudio if that makes any sense.

    Oh and i have installed the ik effects and sampletank with miroslav. I dont see what the problem is. The effects are good and sampletank gives you alot of instruments on the cheap. The ethnic/orchestral stuff is nice. But i do live on the edge of insanity so you might not want to try this at home, lol.

    Yep already have Reason, but don't use it as a DAW, just as a plugin in Logic. Trying Ableton now and then Bitwig next week. Busy couple of weeks ahead lol so will probably be insane by then!

  • klownshedklownshed

    Sorry posted the IK stuff in the wrong thread. Doh.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @klownshed said:
    Sorry posted the IK stuff in the wrong thread. Doh.

    thought it seemed a bit random lol :D

  • greatestlengthsgreatestlengths

    If you've got enough plugins and real or virtual instruments that you don't need to rely on DAW/stock stuff, then Reaper would be my suggestion.

    I've been gravitating towards it more and more because of how quick/snappy it feels to use.. the only thing that ever holds me back from using it is I hate its stock plugins. But over time, I've built up enough third-party instruments and fx that this isn't an issue any more.

    Feels great to use once you get the hang of it.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @greatestlengths said:
    If you've got enough plugins and real or virtual instruments that you don't need to rely on DAW/stock stuff, then Reaper would be my suggestion.

    I've been gravitating towards it more and more because of how quick/snappy it feels to use.. the only thing that ever holds me back from using it is I hate its stock plugins. But over time, I've built up enough third-party instruments and fx that this isn't an issue any more.

    Feels great to use once you get the hang of it.

    I've avoided it to be honest, as it looks like it takes quite a bit of a learning curve to mold it to your own tastes and then I'm not sure it adds much in the way of 'difference' in approach to Logic - I may be wrong though as have never tried it first hand, just going on what I've watched on you tube.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    Thank you everyone for your comments and advice.

    I have decided to give both Ableton and Bitwig a go. They both look great contenders for alternative approaches to using Logic, which I've invested some time in and will remain my main DAW for when I need familiarity.

    For other looking just for a DAW to get music made as smoothly as possible, I agree with @klownshed that getting one DAW and getting to know it inside out is probably the best approach for many people :)

  • otterfactorotterfactor

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @offbrands said:

    Bitwig has a thing with Splice where you can split the payments, and best yet, when 6 drops, or even if 7 does (unlikely in 25 parts) inbetween the time of paying it off, you get automatically upgraded to the latest version.

    I don't know if Ableton has that some kind of deal with their monthly rent to own.

    Thanks will go read the fine print of the deals!

    The topic evolved quite a bit since this, but: If a new version is released while you have an active rent-to-own, there is the option of extending the rental period to cover that update. After the 24th installment you’ll have a lifetime key for the originally bought version, and then keep paying only the update. Meaning that if you pause the rental, you still have access to version 12 (considering you’re buying in the near future), but while paused lose access to the update.

    Not as generous as Bitwig’s at a first look, but Live is also not tied to a yearly upgrade fee for minor versions. Only major versions have cost, so in the end I think no approach has a definitive advantage.

    On the topic of which one to choose, I had tried both already in the past and Bitwig never clicked with me.
    My impression is that most people who sing its praises are people with a stronger foundation than me, or people who played enough with Ableton to learn the ins and outs of it and because of that they know the limitations.
    As someone new to both and who never fully dedicated myself to music Ableton felt much more approachable, that’s why I went for it now that the rent-to-own is available.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @otterfactor said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @offbrands said:

    Bitwig has a thing with Splice where you can split the payments, and best yet, when 6 drops, or even if 7 does (unlikely in 25 parts) inbetween the time of paying it off, you get automatically upgraded to the latest version.

    I don't know if Ableton has that some kind of deal with their monthly rent to own.

    Thanks will go read the fine print of the deals!

    The topic evolved quite a bit since this, but: If a new version is released while you have an active rent-to-own, there is the option of extending the rental period to cover that update. After the 24th installment you’ll have a lifetime key for the originally bought version, and then keep paying only the update. Meaning that if you pause the rental, you still have access to version 12 (considering you’re buying in the near future), but while paused lose access to the update.

    Not as generous as Bitwig’s at a first look, but Live is also not tied to a yearly upgrade fee for minor versions. Only major versions have cost, so in the end I think no approach has a definitive advantage.

    On the topic of which one to choose, I had tried both already in the past and Bitwig never clicked with me.
    My impression is that most people who sing its praises are people with a stronger foundation than me, or people who played enough with Ableton to learn the ins and outs of it and because of that they know the limitations.
    As someone new to both and who never fully dedicated myself to music Ableton felt much more approachable, that’s why I went for it now that the rent-to-own is available.

    i changed my plans and downloaded both at once. i really like both and can see both doing the job I wanted them too.

    then I tried moving the library of them to my external drive. Live went smoothly, but Bitwig did not. Bitwig made two versions of the library and they were a nightnare to delete. I was leaning towards Bitwig mostly due to price, but this and a few niggling bits put me off.

    Having a free cut down version of Live free with my Novation controller, it gave me a discount off Live, so I bought the Standard version outright, with the plan to upgrade to Suite in time!

  • heshes
    edited October 2025

    @mjm1138 said:
    Since the topic is being discussed on this particular forum, I feel like I should point out that Ableton and Logic are the only macOS DAWs I'm aware of that can host AUv3 plugins. So if you have iOS plugins you want to use on Mac, Ableton might be a good alternative to Logic.

    Reaper DAW does also support AUv3 plugins. And you can get a free full version to try for as long as you want. https://www.reaper.fm/ And just $60 if you want to purchase a legit version.

    Not sure I'd recommend it to someone who just wants to "get things done" though. While immensely powerful -- and I'm sure speedy and easy to use for someone who's familiar with it -- it is also kind of like the Linux of DAWs, very configurable and that can be a time suck for certain kinds of people.

  • oldsynthguyoldsynthguy

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @otterfactor said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @offbrands said:

    Bitwig has a thing with Splice where you can split the payments, and best yet, when 6 drops, or even if 7 does (unlikely in 25 parts) inbetween the time of paying it off, you get automatically upgraded to the latest version.

    I don't know if Ableton has that some kind of deal with their monthly rent to own.

    Thanks will go read the fine print of the deals!

    The topic evolved quite a bit since this, but: If a new version is released while you have an active rent-to-own, there is the option of extending the rental period to cover that update. After the 24th installment you’ll have a lifetime key for the originally bought version, and then keep paying only the update. Meaning that if you pause the rental, you still have access to version 12 (considering you’re buying in the near future), but while paused lose access to the update.

    Not as generous as Bitwig’s at a first look, but Live is also not tied to a yearly upgrade fee for minor versions. Only major versions have cost, so in the end I think no approach has a definitive advantage.

    On the topic of which one to choose, I had tried both already in the past and Bitwig never clicked with me.
    My impression is that most people who sing its praises are people with a stronger foundation than me, or people who played enough with Ableton to learn the ins and outs of it and because of that they know the limitations.
    As someone new to both and who never fully dedicated myself to music Ableton felt much more approachable, that’s why I went for it now that the rent-to-own is available.

    i changed my plans and downloaded both at once. i really like both and can see both doing the job I wanted them too.

    then I tried moving the library of them to my external drive. Live went smoothly, but Bitwig did not. Bitwig made two versions of the library and they were a nightnare to delete. I was leaning towards Bitwig mostly due to price, but this and a few niggling bits put me off.

    Having a free cut down version of Live free with my Novation controller, it gave me a discount off Live, so I bought the Standard version outright, with the plan to upgrade to Suite in time!

    They do pretty decent deals on upgrades. I wait until their sales (usually Black Friday) if there’s a new version available. Think I paid £140 last year for a V11 to V12 Suite update. Nice the way they let you keep running the old versions too - so I run V10 on an older laptop, as later versions require a bit more oomph.

    I really want a Push 3 controller, but they’re very pricey. Have to see what their discounts next month will be, but probably still out of my reach.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919
    edited October 2025

    @oldsynthguy said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @otterfactor said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @offbrands said:

    Bitwig has a thing with Splice where you can split the payments, and best yet, when 6 drops, or even if 7 does (unlikely in 25 parts) inbetween the time of paying it off, you get automatically upgraded to the latest version.

    I don't know if Ableton has that some kind of deal with their monthly rent to own.

    Thanks will go read the fine print of the deals!

    The topic evolved quite a bit since this, but: If a new version is released while you have an active rent-to-own, there is the option of extending the rental period to cover that update. After the 24th installment you’ll have a lifetime key for the originally bought version, and then keep paying only the update. Meaning that if you pause the rental, you still have access to version 12 (considering you’re buying in the near future), but while paused lose access to the update.

    Not as generous as Bitwig’s at a first look, but Live is also not tied to a yearly upgrade fee for minor versions. Only major versions have cost, so in the end I think no approach has a definitive advantage.

    On the topic of which one to choose, I had tried both already in the past and Bitwig never clicked with me.
    My impression is that most people who sing its praises are people with a stronger foundation than me, or people who played enough with Ableton to learn the ins and outs of it and because of that they know the limitations.
    As someone new to both and who never fully dedicated myself to music Ableton felt much more approachable, that’s why I went for it now that the rent-to-own is available.

    i changed my plans and downloaded both at once. i really like both and can see both doing the job I wanted them too.

    then I tried moving the library of them to my external drive. Live went smoothly, but Bitwig did not. Bitwig made two versions of the library and they were a nightnare to delete. I was leaning towards Bitwig mostly due to price, but this and a few niggling bits put me off.

    Having a free cut down version of Live free with my Novation controller, it gave me a discount off Live, so I bought the Standard version outright, with the plan to upgrade to Suite in time!

    They do pretty decent deals on upgrades. I wait until their sales (usually Black Friday) if there’s a new version available. Think I paid £140 last year for a V11 to V12 Suite update. Nice the way they let you keep running the old versions too - so I run V10 on an older laptop, as later versions require a bit more oomph.

    I really want a Push 3 controller, but they’re very pricey. Have to see what their discounts next month will be, but probably still out of my reach.

    yeah I like the look of teh Push 3, but I have little space left and while with a long lead I could sit back on my sofa and use it, £800+ is a fair chunk towards an MPC Live 3 if I had the money spare lol

    i have bought Reason, TVS Pro and Hive 2 in sales as well in the last two months. Better stop buying for a while now lol

  • mjm1138mjm1138

    @oldsynthguy said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @otterfactor said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @offbrands said:

    Bitwig has a thing with Splice where you can split the payments, and best yet, when 6 drops, or even if 7 does (unlikely in 25 parts) inbetween the time of paying it off, you get automatically upgraded to the latest version.

    I don't know if Ableton has that some kind of deal with their monthly rent to own.

    Thanks will go read the fine print of the deals!

    The topic evolved quite a bit since this, but: If a new version is released while you have an active rent-to-own, there is the option of extending the rental period to cover that update. After the 24th installment you’ll have a lifetime key for the originally bought version, and then keep paying only the update. Meaning that if you pause the rental, you still have access to version 12 (considering you’re buying in the near future), but while paused lose access to the update.

    Not as generous as Bitwig’s at a first look, but Live is also not tied to a yearly upgrade fee for minor versions. Only major versions have cost, so in the end I think no approach has a definitive advantage.

    On the topic of which one to choose, I had tried both already in the past and Bitwig never clicked with me.
    My impression is that most people who sing its praises are people with a stronger foundation than me, or people who played enough with Ableton to learn the ins and outs of it and because of that they know the limitations.
    As someone new to both and who never fully dedicated myself to music Ableton felt much more approachable, that’s why I went for it now that the rent-to-own is available.

    i changed my plans and downloaded both at once. i really like both and can see both doing the job I wanted them too.

    then I tried moving the library of them to my external drive. Live went smoothly, but Bitwig did not. Bitwig made two versions of the library and they were a nightnare to delete. I was leaning towards Bitwig mostly due to price, but this and a few niggling bits put me off.

    Having a free cut down version of Live free with my Novation controller, it gave me a discount off Live, so I bought the Standard version outright, with the plan to upgrade to Suite in time!

    They do pretty decent deals on upgrades. I wait until their sales (usually Black Friday) if there’s a new version available. Think I paid £140 last year for a V11 to V12 Suite update. Nice the way they let you keep running the old versions too - so I run V10 on an older laptop, as later versions require a bit more oomph.

    I really want a Push 3 controller, but they’re very pricey. Have to see what their discounts next month will be, but probably still out of my reach.

    I’ve started diving into Move as Live controller and while it’s no Push, it’s pretty powerful, getting more powerful all the time, and is also a lot of fun as a standalone groovebox/sketchpad. If Push is out of reach, as it is for me, Move is worth a serious thought.

    Agreed on the upgrades, combine that with sale season and with buying from Thomann, and you can save a lot of money.

    Ableton seems to take pretty good care of their customers. I’ll be bummed out in a few years when they inevitably get bought out by inMusic and enshittified 😂

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @mjm1138 said:

    @oldsynthguy said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @otterfactor said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @offbrands said:

    Bitwig has a thing with Splice where you can split the payments, and best yet, when 6 drops, or even if 7 does (unlikely in 25 parts) inbetween the time of paying it off, you get automatically upgraded to the latest version.

    I don't know if Ableton has that some kind of deal with their monthly rent to own.

    Thanks will go read the fine print of the deals!

    The topic evolved quite a bit since this, but: If a new version is released while you have an active rent-to-own, there is the option of extending the rental period to cover that update. After the 24th installment you’ll have a lifetime key for the originally bought version, and then keep paying only the update. Meaning that if you pause the rental, you still have access to version 12 (considering you’re buying in the near future), but while paused lose access to the update.

    Not as generous as Bitwig’s at a first look, but Live is also not tied to a yearly upgrade fee for minor versions. Only major versions have cost, so in the end I think no approach has a definitive advantage.

    On the topic of which one to choose, I had tried both already in the past and Bitwig never clicked with me.
    My impression is that most people who sing its praises are people with a stronger foundation than me, or people who played enough with Ableton to learn the ins and outs of it and because of that they know the limitations.
    As someone new to both and who never fully dedicated myself to music Ableton felt much more approachable, that’s why I went for it now that the rent-to-own is available.

    i changed my plans and downloaded both at once. i really like both and can see both doing the job I wanted them too.

    then I tried moving the library of them to my external drive. Live went smoothly, but Bitwig did not. Bitwig made two versions of the library and they were a nightnare to delete. I was leaning towards Bitwig mostly due to price, but this and a few niggling bits put me off.

    Having a free cut down version of Live free with my Novation controller, it gave me a discount off Live, so I bought the Standard version outright, with the plan to upgrade to Suite in time!

    They do pretty decent deals on upgrades. I wait until their sales (usually Black Friday) if there’s a new version available. Think I paid £140 last year for a V11 to V12 Suite update. Nice the way they let you keep running the old versions too - so I run V10 on an older laptop, as later versions require a bit more oomph.

    I really want a Push 3 controller, but they’re very pricey. Have to see what their discounts next month will be, but probably still out of my reach.

    I’ve started diving into Move as Live controller and while it’s no Push, it’s pretty powerful, getting more powerful all the time, and is also a lot of fun as a standalone groovebox/sketchpad. If Push is out of reach, as it is for me, Move is worth a serious thought.

    Agreed on the upgrades, combine that with sale season and with buying from Thomann, and you can save a lot of money.

    Ableton seems to take pretty good care of their customers. I’ll be bummed out in a few years when they inevitably get bought out by inMusic and enshittified 😂

    Also, my new Novation launchkey mk4 is decent with controlling Ableton Live.

  • SirMcpSirMcp

    i changed my plans and downloaded both at once. i really like both and can see both doing the job I wanted them too.

    then I tried moving the library of them to my external drive. Live went smoothly, but Bitwig did not. Bitwig made two versions of the library and they were a nightnare to delete. I was leaning towards Bitwig mostly due to price, but this and a few niggling bits put me off.

    Having a free cut down version of Live free with my Novation controller, it gave me a discount off Live, so I bought the Standard version outright, with the plan to upgrade to Suite in time!

    You need to upgrade to suite. Max 4 Live has a bunch of cool devices that do crazy shit. I have both bitwig and live and prefer live. If you know live, then you can pretty much use bitwig or at least I could. The only thing I dont get is the grid, but that’s because I’m terrible with modular synths. I got bitwig for the grid but haven’t spent time in it. One day i will and also learn mirack/cardinal, reaktor, and (now I’m dreaming) max4live. One day…..I too will be smart……yeh.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @SirMcp said:

    i changed my plans and downloaded both at once. i really like both and can see both doing the job I wanted them too.

    then I tried moving the library of them to my external drive. Live went smoothly, but Bitwig did not. Bitwig made two versions of the library and they were a nightnare to delete. I was leaning towards Bitwig mostly due to price, but this and a few niggling bits put me off.

    Having a free cut down version of Live free with my Novation controller, it gave me a discount off Live, so I bought the Standard version outright, with the plan to upgrade to Suite in time!

    You need to upgrade to suite. Max 4 Live has a bunch of cool devices that do crazy shit. I have both bitwig and live and prefer live. If you know live, then you can pretty much use bitwig or at least I could. The only thing I dont get is the grid, but that’s because I’m terrible with modular synths. I got bitwig for the grid but haven’t spent time in it. One day i will and also learn mirack/cardinal, reaktor, and (now I’m dreaming) max4live. One day…..I too will be smart……yeh.

    Yes, I will upgrade sometime in the future....no doubt they at sale time lol.

  • oldsynthguyoldsynthguy

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Also, my new Novation launchkey mk4 is decent with controlling Ableton Live.

    Yeah I’ve got one of those, really good. To be honest though I mostly tend to use the laptop while slouched in an armchair - there’s a keyboard mode in Live, so I play using the laptop keys, and chuck on a bit of automation after.

    It’s one of the reasons I’m doing so much more on the Mac now, means I don’t have to plug loads of stuff in, and sit up at a desk 😎

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