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AI generated music starts to be serious

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Comments

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @waka_x said:
    hes:
    if you want, I can debunk Pinker's book to bits.
    but don't have much time.
    I suggest you read some David Graeber and discover yourself why Pinker book is wrong at any step. And dangerous. And how west lives in that deep lie.

    +1

  • Meek3Meek3

    @wim said:
    I can't put my finger on why, but just watching that video gives me the creeps. I might be OK with the song if I had just listened to it without the video, but ... eh ... I just can't watch any of that video without feeling weird. Maybe I'll give the song a listen on it's own later.

    I think it’s a very weird video.

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  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @waka_x said:
    cyberheater:

    AI doom is a scabrous western luxury panic.
    The real apocalypse is already here - climate collapse, inequality, endless war.
    Fantasizing about machine takeover just helps us forget
    the systems already destroying us.

    no worries, nature will smack us down soon enough. solar flare! whoot! solar flare! whoot!

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @offbrands said:
    In case anyone is wondering about the accepting AI comments throughout this post, anytime there's a tool, or thing, or situation that is being sold as must-have, must-learn-or-get-left-behind, is often using this urgency as a way to manipulate you.

    Whether it's a small time creator selling that urgency for the sake of sale, or if it's the largest tech giants the world has every known selling a tool for mass adoption to grow their own wealth, its manipulation. Question the intent, always.

    Agree with these 2 paragraphs. Ppl need to wake up to the manipulation of the tech bros, these people do not have our best interests at heart, far from it!

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  • mjcouchemjcouche

    Just to add fuel to the fire, there IS objective quality in music. Which is totally different than subjective taste.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @Gavinski said:

    @offbrands said:
    In case anyone is wondering about the accepting AI comments throughout this post, anytime there's a tool, or thing, or situation that is being sold as must-have, must-learn-or-get-left-behind, is often using this urgency as a way to manipulate you.

    Whether it's a small time creator selling that urgency for the sake of sale, or if it's the largest tech giants the world has every known selling a tool for mass adoption to grow their own wealth, its manipulation. Question the intent, always.

    Agree with these 2 paragraphs. Ppl need to wake up to the manipulation of the tech bros, these people do not have our best interests at heart, far from it!

    There is definitely a hard sell going on and they do want to manipulate insecurities (that is just typical douche CEO stuff really, not limited to tech bros at all) but that doesn't change the reality that some industries are massively disrupted by this stuff and for some people to not use it is very detrimental to them.

  • dendydendy
    edited October 2025

    For me basically epilogue of this topic:

    I sent that song to my colleagues (approx 20 people) who are all normies, age from 24 to 54 years - without music making experience - literally ALL of them were amazed and said it is great music and they like it and that it sounds to them same like music they listen in radio ;-)

    This is target audience for this music, not few old men shouting on clouds at niche music making forum 😂 We here are really unimportant deviation from classic normies mainstream group.

    For those people, this music already made it.

    Take it as you want. But this is unstoppable..

  • waka_xwaka_x
    edited October 2025

    offbrands:
    The spark of unity must survive. We must keep that lil' flame alive at all cost.
    “Fight the Power!” once meant defiance - now it’s background music for ads.
    Yet the choice remains: to do the right thing, to resist the "warm embrace" of Capitalist python.
    Civil disobedience and solidarity are small but needed acts in the long struggle to say NO.
    Always remember to read Malatesta's thoughts before going to sleep:)

    dendy:
    Few days ago when shoppin at Kaufland (here in Romania)
    I'm absolutely sure that I identified 2 Ai generated songs (or at least *lyrics)
    in their playlist. Or at least they sounded like that. Wasn't quick enoug to Shazam 'em
    but they sounded like that to me. Or maybe there are real pop artists inspired by slop already?!
    Who knows. Bad enough:)))

    • lyrics with neon cities, dreams and other subjects that I've heard often in Ai slop
  • GavinskiGavinski

    @waka_x said:
    offbrands:
    The spark of unity must survive. We must keep that lil' flame alive at all cost.
    “Fight the Power!” once meant defiance - now it’s background music for ads.
    Yet the choice remains: to do the right thing, to resist the "warm embrace" of Capitalist python.
    Civil disobedience and solidarity are small but needed acts in the long struggle to say NO.
    Always remember to read Malatesta's thoughts before going to sleep:)

    dendy:
    Few days ago when shoppin at Kaufland (here in Romania)
    I'm absolutely sure that I identified 2 Ai generated songs (or at least *lyrics)
    in their playlist. Or at least they sounded like that. Wasn't quick enoug to Shazam 'em
    but they sounded like that to me. Or maybe there are real pop artists inspired by slop already?!
    Who knows. Bad enough:)))

    • lyrics with neon cities, dreams and other subjects that I've heard often in Ai slop

    Hahaha,'slopcore' - humans trying to make songs that sound like AI-generated music. It will be a thing, I'm sure.

  • waka_xwaka_x
    edited October 2025

    @Gavinski

    "Hahaha,'slopcore' - humans trying to make songs that sound like AI-generated music. It will be a thing, I'm sure."

    -- rotfl. yep. it's a bitter-sweet piece of the bright future we are part of.:)

    Have you ever heard singers that try to sing (without dsp/fx) autotune-ish!?
    I did...:) And I was scared.

    It seems that we live inside the ouroboros
    who lives in a Moebius strip shaped Universe.
    And time is not linear. And arrows have more than 1 tip at a time...

  • SquishySquishy

    @waka_x

    It seems that we live inside the ouroboros
    who lives in a Moebius strip shaped Universe.

    Lol an enigma WITHIN ANOTHER enigma for sure. Dizzying…

  • waka_xwaka_x
    edited October 2025

    @Squishy
    Život je čudo ( Живот је чудо ) as they say in Serbia,
    no doubt...:)

    Somehow me writing the above and you echoing -
    made me remember the animations of Felix Colgrave.:)
    Do check 'em out.

    https://www.youtube.com/@FelixColgrave

  • SquishySquishy

    @waka_x said:
    @Squishy
    Život je čudo ( Живот је чудо ) as they say in Serbia,
    no doubt...:)

    Somehow me writing the above and you echoing -
    made me remember the animations of Felix Colgrave.:)
    Do check 'em out.

    https://www.youtube.com/@FelixColgrave

    Oh hell ya, love Colgraves stuff! Always reminds me of Bakshis movies (Wizards) from the 70s/80s.

  • waka_xwaka_x

    @Squishy et Animation Loveurs

    Here is my "favourite animations" list over the years on Vimeo.
    https://vimeo.com/wakax/likes
    All (almost all) free to see and wonder.

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  • dendydendy
    edited October 2025

    @offbrands said:
    If anyone can read any of these articles and still use generative AI, or support any of these AI companies without thinking about the mass amount of harm your contributing to that is causing hard to humans, well, all I can say is I don't envy that inability to empathize one bit.

    If you are one of those people,I hope you find it within yourself to reflect and get some help, you deserve as much. Sent with respect.

    Well.. today AI saved me like few days of reading through hundreds of pages of various API documentation while trying to implement some feature in our aplication. I did in 2 hours work which would took me year or two like literall 3-5 days ... More i use it more excited i am because all hard repetitive work is gone and i can rally concentrate just to creative thinking, inventing new features, etc .. I enjoy my work much more, at the end i am less tired, i literally love to cooperate with AI tools ..

    I am fully aware this ends in few years and - but I am just enjoying it very much until it lasts..

    Sorry but i do not put this amazing tool away just because some people are using it the wrong way. You can kill people with kitchen knife too - does this mean we should stop using kitchen knifes ? No. You can kill people with car - should we put away cards ? Hell no. Every tech had it's risks, point is not to demonize the text, point is to learn to use it right way so it cause more good than bad.

  • dendydendy

    @waka_x said:
    dendy:
    Few days ago when shoppin at Kaufland (here in Romania)
    I'm absolutely sure that I identified 2 Ai generated songs (or at least *lyrics)
    in their playlist. Or at least they sounded like that. Wasn't quick enoug to Shazam 'em
    but they sounded like that to me. Or maybe there are real pop artists inspired by slop already?!
    Who knows. Bad enough:)))

    Funny enough, wife was recently listening some song on Youtube.. i was like "damn fuck that is pretty nasty AI" .. she was like "no no, it's not" .. i was like "i am pretty 100% sure it's AI, you can listen how stupid it is"

    It turned out, it was not AI.

    :lol: :lol:

  • dendydendy

    @Gavinski said:
    Hahaha,'slopcore' - humans trying to make songs that sound like AI-generated music. It will be a thing, I'm sure.

    I think people are doing this for years.. they did long before modern LLM's were invented :-D

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @offbrands said:

    @dendy said:
    For me basically epilogue of this topic:

    I sent that song to my colleagues (approx 20 people) who are all normies, age from 24 to 54 years - without music making experience - literally ALL of them were amazed and said it is great music and they like it and that it sounds to them same like music they listen in radio ;-)

    This is target audience for this music, not few old men shouting on clouds at niche music making forum 😂 We here are really unimportant deviation from classic normies mainstream group.

    For those people, this music already made it.

    Take it as you want. But this is unstoppable..

    I imagine it'll be ignored, but, for anyone who wants to grasp the harm these generative AI forward companies are doing, read on. This is from an article I've been working on to publish soon. Edited to fit this thread.

    The plethora of issues that are inherent within AI vastly outweighs this current threads main topic, one shitty song, that dendy and 20 of their friends all enjoyed, but, it would do us all a bit of good to remember that while AI tech enthusiasts are busy attempting to strip away our creative artistic passion by trying to get in between the creative process to disrupt our innate desire to truly explore our artistic aspirations, all in an attempt to sell us their unprofitable solutions, to not forget the some of the problematic issues with AI, including the following.

    If anyone can read any of these articles and still use generative AI, or support any of these AI companies without thinking about the mass amount of harm your contributing to that is causing hard to humans, well, all I can say is I don't envy that inability to empathize one bit.

    If you are one of those people,I hope you find it within yourself to reflect and get some help, you deserve as much. Sent with respect.

    You can use generative AI without supporting the corporations behind it. I rely on local, open source tools (that even use zero internet connection) whenever possible because I have no interest in funding the major AI players as I think most of them are deplorable.

    And honestly, modern life ignores the reality that most of our comforts already rely on exploitative systems. If you’re participating in a Western tech driven lifestyle, you’re already entangled in that. AI isn’t the moral tipping point, it’s just the latest one. We really do have deeper issues anyway as a species... but that said, solar flare incoming that will wipe it all out, so who cares, haha!

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  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @timfromtheborder said:

    @wim said:

    @wim said:
    Great post @timfromtheborder. 😎

    Surely LLM based systems aren't the only form of AI being developed however, are they?

    No, but generative AI, what we're discussing with Suno, ChatGPT, Unstable Diffusion et al, is LLM.

    @SevenSystems said:
    Anyone here who says "This is all just AI slop" clearly feels emotionally threatened by the power of AI on a subconscious "lizard brain" level, because this is just objectively false. The quality of most AI generated music, even just simple prompts to Suno etc., is objectively on par with or exceeds most commercial offerings in the charts.

    This is equally an appeal to emotion. First off, there's nothing objective about musical quality. There is no measure of a good song or bad song.

    To a degree only. There is an objective measure of quality, even creative quality.

    If I just sit on the toilet and record the sound of my output falling into the bowl, that could (and would, in 2025) conceivably be considered "music" by some. But it's probably objectively lower quality than, for lack of a better reference, Beethoven 😄. By "objectively" I mean: Virtually ANYONE would agree with this assessment.

    From my perspective, there is good music that I like, and good music I don't like. There's also bad music that I like, and bad music that I don't like. And that is different for every single person.

    Yes, I agree!

    Second, I don't agree that AI generated music is on par with what's on the charts. I'm not a fan of pop music, but I get exposed to it enough, and I recognize that there is a lot of talent and creativity involved. How anyone can say that this Suno generated stuff is on par with Chappel Roan or Dua Lipa is beyond me.

    Sorry, I don't know either of those. I was more referring to the AVERAGE quality of, say, the current top 100 pop songs in any random country at any random point in time.

    I just don't understand it. Again, that's your opinion, but I think it's totally wrong. I don't care if AI music is good or not, it doesn't affect me in the slightest, but every bit of it I've heard has just been bad music.
    The video in this thread is bad music and anyone who thinks it's good has awful taste in music, sorry.

    Taste in music is, by any definition, entirely subjective. But we were, I think, trying to make an objective assessment of the quality of AI music vs. human-made music. So, while this is important to you perso> nally (great!), it's not that relevant to this discussion.

    The quality of the music in the video -- composition, arrangement, lyrics, sound, mixing, mastering -- is however -- to a degree objectively -- on par with or above many commercial offerings made my humans. This is not just a subjective evaluation in the context of personal taste.

    As to your subsequent post, I understand that LLMs aren't using "language" like we use English. But they are still rooted in symbolic language processing and are not trained "directly" on sensory data in the sense that a human brain processes sensory data. I understand how the architecture functions, perhaps I should say "symbol based" rather than "language based."

    Understanding in general might be symbol based, i.e. symbolic, no matter if human or AI. But this is hard to prove or disprove as it's entering philosophical territory.

    And I'm not entirely sure about the distinction in sensory data training you make between human brains and AI. Both are fed technically equivalent sensory information (visual in the form of pixel intensity and color information, and auditory in the form of spectrograms, both of which are almost the same data formats that the human sensory organs deliver their data to the brain in). The only difference you could conceivably make, at least for the learning / training phase, is that a human brain takes this data in in real-time, while it is a largely "offline" process in LLMs. That is true and still one of the most important distinctions between how animal brains learn (online, realtime) and how LLMs do it (offline, in large batches in irregular intervals).

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  • waka_xwaka_x
    edited October 2025

    @dendy @offbrands
    My thoughts on rejecting/demonizing Ai.

    The Ai era is coming, it is unstoppable, like the industrial revolution once was.
    Back then, machines promised freedom but brought pollution, control, and exhaustion.
    Now it’s exactly the same main story but data instead of coal, algorithms instead of steam.
    Different tools, unfortunately the same greedy blind capitalist logic:
    extract, accelerate, dominate- without measure, without pause, to infinity +1 if possible.

    One very charming madman of our times is Nick Land. He says smth like this:
    "accelerate the meltdown - let capitalism and technology eat themselves
    until they evolve into something beyond humanity."
    But this is pure insanity to me and I don't think we should march on this drum.
    This could be a Cronenberg or Shinya Tsukamoto new film but not a path for humanity!

    We can’t halt the Ai wave, but we can ride it differently this time!
    I reccon that the task isn’t to worship or reject Ai, this is a false dilemma...
    It’s to shape it before it shapes who we are and how we are...
    Let's keep the Ai as it is and will always be: a good tool, not always reliable (like all tools),
    good for tedious human tasks and a lil bit more.

    And I stop posting here because I said all I wanted to say about this subject:)

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @offbrands said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @offbrands said:

    @dendy said:
    For me basically epilogue of this topic:

    I sent that song to my colleagues (approx 20 people) who are all normies, age from 24 to 54 years - without music making experience - literally ALL of them were amazed and said it is great music and they like it and that it sounds to them same like music they listen in radio ;-)

    This is target audience for this music, not few old men shouting on clouds at niche music making forum 😂 We here are really unimportant deviation from classic normies mainstream group.

    For those people, this music already made it.

    Take it as you want. But this is unstoppable..

    I imagine it'll be ignored, but, for anyone who wants to grasp the harm these generative AI forward companies are doing, read on. This is from an article I've been working on to publish soon. Edited to fit this thread.

    The plethora of issues that are inherent within AI vastly outweighs this current threads main topic, one shitty song, that dendy and 20 of their friends all enjoyed, but, it would do us all a bit of good to remember that while AI tech enthusiasts are busy attempting to strip away our creative artistic passion by trying to get in between the creative process to disrupt our innate desire to truly explore our artistic aspirations, all in an attempt to sell us their unprofitable solutions, to not forget the some of the problematic issues with AI, including the following.

    If anyone can read any of these articles and still use generative AI, or support any of these AI companies without thinking about the mass amount of harm your contributing to that is causing hard to humans, well, all I can say is I don't envy that inability to empathize one bit.

    If you are one of those people,I hope you find it within yourself to reflect and get some help, you deserve as much. Sent with respect.

    You can use generative AI without supporting the corporations behind it. I rely on local, open source tools (that even use zero internet connection) whenever possible because I have no interest in funding the major AI players as I think most of them are deplorable.

    How was the model trained? Was the data set used ethical?

    Oh hell no. It is shitty dirty stuff. If people don't have to use it (trust fund kids, dependents etc) then don't, unless they want to I guess. I just feel like a survivalist fighting against Terminators having to use Skynet made tech to survive against them.

    And honestly, modern life ignores the reality that most of our comforts already rely on exploitative systems. If you’re participating in a Western tech driven lifestyle, you’re already entangled in that. AI isn’t the moral tipping point, it’s just the latest one. We really do have deeper issues anyway as a species... but that said, solar flare incoming that will wipe it all out, so who cares, haha!

    It’s telling that a lot of the responses I get on AI are often whataboutism, it’s fine, I just can’t debate something when it’s being presented as, for lack of a better word, nihilistic as this.

    Nihilism is a part of modern life. To quote Joker "We live in a society..." blah blah etc. insert maniacal laugh. No need to debate me, I agree with all your points. The side effects are crappy. I just am doing what I can to get by, pay the bills, take care of folks and hope for the best.

    I just want people to have jobs, to find some time to make some art, and for kids to not end their lives cause of a Chatbot, and especially for these companies to stop using our limited resources (ie fresh water) for their financial gain.

    yah that stinks.

    There’s just no point in generative AI for the cost, there’s no point in Chatbots mimicking humans. I’ll die on that hill, I guess.

    Sure, if I could wave a magic wand and make it go away I would. If there were a vote on it ahead of time I would have checked 'no', probably the same for factory farming. Industrial farming and now strip mining has ruined my home where I grew up. It sucks.

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  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @waka_x said:
    @dendy @offbrands
    My thoughts on rejecting/demonizing Ai.

    The Ai era is coming, it is unstoppable, like the industrial revolution once was.
    Back then, machines promised freedom but brought pollution, control, and exhaustion.
    Now it’s exactly the same main story but data instead of coal, algorithms instead of steam.
    Different tools, unfortunately the same greedy blind capitalist logic:
    extract, accelerate, dominate- without measure, without pause, to infinity +1 if possible.

    Maybe unexpectedly, I fully agree that the Industrial Revolution was one of the major turning points for the worse for humanity, and that we should be cautious about AI.

    Not much to add. Just like the IR, AI has the POTENTIAL to convert earth into Utopia WITH THE RIGHT MINDS AT THE TOP. Which, unfortunately, doesn't seem to happen very often 🥴

This discussion has been closed.