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Immigration & I.C.E. - A call for proposals
I haven’t been very active on the forum lately. I check in occasionally to hear some new music, and see what members are up to. Lots of cool stuff. You guys rock!
I began reading a recent post about Immigration and ICE. There are a lot of very well thought opinions, as well as some finger pointing and name calling.
However… I have yet to see anyone offer a proposal for an actual solution.
Regardless of how we got to this place, we currently have millions of new people in the country. They need food, housing, health care, and education.
I am interested in hearing any proposals that provide for those things. Something that both sides can agree on.
I am not interested in hearing any more opinions regarding who is to blame. I can find those anywhere in abundance. “Trump is an asshole”, and “Biden is a traitor” are not solutions. Those will not change anybody’s mind.
We need a simple plan that everybody can understand. Something that will appeal to people on both sides of the aisle. I have a simple idea that I think would work. It’s not perfect, but would allow reasonable people to walk away from the table with something.
If anyone is interested, I would be willing to share. Before I do that, I would like to hear your thoughts. Be specific.
Keep it simple.
A PROPOSAL
The first step would be to create a simple website and database similar to Craigslist.
It wouldn’t have to be fancy, just text.
The technology involved is very simple and could be built and rolled out in a few weeks or less.
The server would only need to store small amounts of text. Name, age, etc. No graphics or video.
It would be inexpensive. A terabyte of storage is less than $100.
It would be financed, maintained and operated by volunteers.
There would be no advertising.
The site would have two types of members, Sponsors and Guests.
Membership would be entirely voluntary.
A sponsor would provide their address and the number of guests they can accept.
A guest would select their language and search by zip code for a place they wish to live.
They would contact each other through the website and make travel arrangements.
The website would handle translations.
There would be no preliminary interview or meet and greet.
The entire process would only take a few minutes.
A system like this would provide for all basic needs.
Food - The sponsor would initially provide that, but the guest could offer to pay if they are able. Nothing fancy, just basic healthy food. If you can provide more, that would be appreciated.
Housing - That would be a basic safe space provided by the sponsor. It doesn’t have to be fancy. If you can provide more, that would be great, too.
Healthcare - That would be handled by the sponsor. A guest can offer to pay if they are able, but they are not required to. The website does not track preexisting conditions.
Education - This would apply to guests with young children. The sponsor would make arrangements to enroll them in school. Children are required to attend school.
A guest can leave at any time, but would have the option to stay as long as they felt was necessary. They would be expected to abide by the sponsor’s house rules. There would be a verbal agreement and commitment between both parties. No lawyers or government agencies need to be involved.
From day one, we would know who is here, and how to contact them in case of an emergency.
There would be no unaccompanied children.
There would be no need for ICE.
At the moment, the so-called border crisis appears to be under control. However, it could happen again. It’s not a perfect solution. If nothing else, it’s doable. I welcome ideas to improve it, or maybe something entirely different. Let’s hear some ideas.
Comments
I appreciate the desire for solutions. But before there is talk about plans, I feel there needs to be agreement on a moral baseline regarding police brutality, racial profiling, due process regardless of citizenship, etc. There are no easy solutions but as a country we have chosen cruelty over being humane (and not only regarding immigration).
For solutions, Honestly, I’d start with the policies we had at around Obama’s time and before. They are not perfect, but they’re infinitely better than the abomination we have seen under Trump.
There is a factoid floating around about how Obama’s administration deported more people than the current admin. Even though it doesn’t seem to be taking into account current arrests and detainments, the numbers on the deportations seem factual.The difference here is the focus and the “how”.
Overwhelmingly, the reports indicate that deportations under that administration followed due process and were actually focused on people with serious criminal convictions on US soil. There was also a focus on National security threats. None of these things apply to being an old man selling tacos on a corner, or being a darker skinned man who happens pumping gas into his car at a station when ICE is patrolling , so the current approach is not about national security or safety as this admin claims.
So yeah, what was there before is a better starting point.
@AlexY. Thank you for your opinion. Perhaps you didn’t understand me. What is your specific plan for the immediate future. I’m listening.
ok, just to make sure we’re on the same page, you mean a plan to specifically provide food, housing, health care, and education. for the newcomers?
Exactly. I have a plan.
well, I’m the one listening now!
@AlexY That’s rocking good news. I will be happy to share. However, I want to hear what others think.
Let’s all be friends and discuss good ideas. Peace!
Anybody else care to share?
What's your endgame here? There's no meeting in the middle with the other side until they guarantee basic human rights for all minorities, including trans people, Somalis, Muslims, Jews, brown people.
This feels like a setup but here’s a couple of thoughts.
1. Ensure the immigrant community understand how grateful you are for the significant role they play in society.
2. Immigration laws need to make sense for the national demographic needs. If that now means tightening them up or to ensure that immigrants have certain certificates or are even under a certain age so they will pay back in to society then so be it.
3. Clearly communicate the immigration laws and enforce them consistently and, most importantly, respectfully. Give a clear grace period to long standing situations that have never been challenged to ensure families can work on a transition plan once notified.
I’m not sure about your food and shelter comment. That sounds more like a poverty issue than an immigration one?
“There is no meeting in the middle”. That speaks volumes. What is your plan? I’m listening.
Did you draw that yourself? It’s very good. Now, what’s your plan?
Respectfully, guaranteeing “basic human rights for all minorities, including trans people, Somalis, Muslims, Jews, brown people” doesn’t seem like an unreasonable precondition before trying to find common ground with whoever the other side is assumed to be. Otherwise, what does meeting in the middle look like?
I say this with respect as well given our brief interactions elsewhere in this forum: I think this post might be go in a better direction if you share what your plan is.
I’ll take these point by point.
Good idea. What have you done today to ensure that?
Government creates laws. If they are bad, then government can change them. I haven’t seen anybody trying to change any of them. Have you contacted your representative about it?
Another good point. “Grace period” is vague. How long should it be? What would you do when it expires?
Food and shelter are basic human needs. Many of these people come from places where they don’t have either. It’s not a separate issue. It needs to be part of the plan.
The problem with this framing is that it fundamentally misunderstands that the infrastructure to provide food, housing, health care, and education is made up of people.
Who grows your food and works on your farms? Immigrants do.
Who builds your houses? Immigrants do.
Who works in your healthcare and education systems? Immigrants do.
The framing you're using implies that immigrants are just a drain on resources, and don't contribute to the economy, and it is completely wrong.
We had a conservative government in the UK that used anti-immigrant rhetoric, but all the while they were hiring tens of thousands of health care workers from Africa and India, because they was a shortage of qualified people. If they had not done this hospitals and care homes would have had to close.
The US is not a densily populated country, compared to Europe. And the US has had anti-immgrant scares for centuries, against the Chinese, the Irish, and Italians.
But without immigration there will be a major demographic problem because the birth rate is going down, as it does in all rich countries. When people can choose, they choose to have one or two kids, not six or seven, so over time the population ages and shrinks as birth levels fall below replacement level.
You are absolutely correct. It’s not unreasonable. I am a white guy. I was baptized in a black church. Many of my friends are black. I don’t think about their skin color. They are just friends. I’m not trying to steer this post in any particular direction. I just want to see if anybody has any specific ideas. So far, nothing but opinions and a picture of a guillotine.
I will describe my plan after I have heard from a few more people.
@richardyot
My wife was born and raised on a farm in Nebraska. The entire family worked the farm until the kids were old enough to go to college. There were no immigrants.
My father and grandfather physically built the house I grew up in. I have a picture of them standing in the bare frame before the walls went up. It was just the two of them.
My mother’s parents came to Chicago from Castlebar, Ireland in the 30s. They were dirt poor but worked hard during the depression to raise a family. I am proud of them.
You describe immigrants as farm hands and cheap labor. I never said that they are a drain on the economy. I never implied that, either. You read too much into what I actually said. It’s an old trick that people use to distract when things aren’t going their way.
I never described myself as liberal or conservative. Please don’t try to frame me as either. However, I believe in free speech, so you can say whatever you like and I will defend your right to say it.
I started this discussion to see if there are any members with constructive action plans. I’m still waiting.
The constructive action plan is to realise that with changing demographics and a declining birth rate, immigrants are necessary to the economy IMO.
Most people these days (with some exceptions of course) are not building their own houses. We live in a complex and interconnected economy that relies on human labour, and immigrants are an essential part of this system.
(Also I wasn't saying immigrants are just cheap labour, they are found in every tier of society. Nurses, hospital porters, doctors, researchers etc...)
Okay. You have provided a general overview. Let’s get into the details of the actual implementation.
Step 1…
Who grows your food?
Who builds your houses?
It was the first thing you said.
The first thing I said was that infrastructure was made of people. There are immigrants at all levels in all those sectors, from business owners to labourers
I’m not going to make detailed proposals on the back of a napkin to settle an online debate. If you have such proposals I am happy to read them in good faith. 😀
And just to clarify: If I made detailed suggestions about who visas would be granted to, who amnesties would be given to, and who should be deported, etc., and in all likelihood the discussion would get derailed over the minutia and details, not a constructive use of anyone's time IMO.
@richardyot You are correct and I take that back.
Last weekend we went out for “brunch”. It sounds so trendy! We aren’t wealthy, but occasionally treat ourselves. Our server was a lovely young lady. My wife loves to chat with people and we discovered that she is a single mom with two girls. Our bill was about $56. We left her a $50 tip. It’s just a little thing, but I’m sure she was able to put it to good use. It’s just our way of helping people, one at a time. Promise me that you will do something nice for a complete stranger… today.
I will post my proposal, but I am hoping to hear from at least one person with some ideas. Have a good day.
I’m sure you have heard the saying “The devil is in the details”. At some point they need to be addressed. Until then, people will just yell and call each other bad names. It’s amusing up to a point, but it gets old.
Don’t be afraid of being derailed. It will happen. In the meantime, you just might provide some insights that others have missed.
That's a great gesture, and I always tip generously if I can 👍
@Paulieworld i feel a bit slighted when you say you’re still waiting for any good ideas. I tried my best lol.
@gusgranite If I made you feel slighted, I apologize. That was not my intent. I’m just trying to get people to start thinking and talking about ideas, rather than just yell at each other. As long as we are fighting amongst each other, we are easily controlled.
I admire what you are doing with your boys. You are a very lucky man. My two boys were both killed in 2004. I never got over it and don’t think I ever will. Treasure each day and make a conscious effort to tell them, every day, how important they are. Tell them to do at least one nice thing for someone, every day, without expecting something in return. That’s actually part of my “plan”.
@Paulieworld I am so saddened to hear that. You have my deepest condolences. I can’t even imagine.
Don’t even try to imagine. Just give them a man-bear hug and a strong, firm handshake. That’s what men do.