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"So AI Makes Better Music Than You...Now What?" -- Venus Theory video
I ran across this video on youtube. I haven't noticed it talked about on LPF yet, but it seems to be about a topic many people like to talk about. Good to get a perspective from someone who's thought about it deeply.
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Comments
People who play instruments, who play in bands, who collaborate, who play live, are not sweating AI music. And people who are curious about sound, process, discovery and creativity are not worried about AI music. It’s producers who confuse “quality of production” with “good music” who are sweating.
The other day I was playing some John Prine tunes (RIP) with a friend of mine. Two guitars and when I sang the female vocal on In Spite of Ourselves in my twangiest falsetto he could barely keep time for laughing. So when it comes to “better” what does that mean? What could possibly be better than humans doing what God kicked them from the garden for?
Huh? Ya lost me with that one.
Eating the fruit that gave knowledge of good and evil… i.e. musical theory
Hot dang. I sure don't need much in the way of redemption then. 😉
Those who use recorded music online to promote themselves may be concerned though in that platforms etc will get even more flooded. But yah busking ftw for sure.
How can AI music be a bad thing? There used to be a LOT of great music. Now there is infinite music. More can only be better.
Because now there's less money in it for professional freelance music producers such as myself. Sometimes potential clients would rather go the "AI text prompt" route than pay a professional like me to create instrumental music for their projects. I bring to the table the fact I can produce any genre of music. I even made noise music yesterday.
Doesn't mean I'm going to stop being creative for my own personal projects. Just that, I need to find other avenues for some side change rather than be paid for what I put in my "10000 hours of practice" for. 🙄
I keep saying performing musicians could have a renaissance with this new wave of AI. Before recordings came along live acts were the only way to hear a performer. Even digitally there has to be some value in streaming live performances, using computers as instruments, and figuring out where AI could fit in all that is up to the artist. If you’re a producer it could hurt, but maybe that production experience can translate to helping live performers using AI tools and the advantage of a trained ear.
As usual, just spitballing ideas.
The people I know in their teens who are interested in making music (all three of them, heh) have zero interest in digital production / augmentation. I think they intuitively know that there will be little status in it so they are all focusing on learning ye olde normale instruments.
I am glad I can perform piano in public.
I have residency at this nice restaurant with great base pay and a tip jar. Just that making more money on the side as a music producer has dried up a little bit. It is a bit frustrating, but nothing beats a live performance anyways. From the live music itself to the audience interaction and energy.
(I tend to go see live cover bands rather than "Art Music" concerts. Reason is, despite the fact I absolutely love Art Music, people aren't jumping out of their seats and screaming and really getting into it. It's usually a pretentious "polite" crowd. 😂 )
I hope that I don't intrude into your personal life, but if you have a few videos about the piano gig you have to share, I'd very much like that!
I have a couple live audio recordings. I should find them. ❤️
Just because I like you, and don't like seeing you deceived. I'm a sarcastic old man. Assume the opposite of what I say is true. Plus it feels better write that, believe it or not, than to post my real feelings, as writing those words would just be a downer for me.
I don’t get why you litter the forum with inflaming comments that are not even what you think.
English is no everybody main language.
I didn't realize you were being satirical. As @ecou said, English is not everyone's main language. Even in my case where English is my first language, I have Autism and sometimes read things literally/at face value. If you put something like "note, I'm being satirical", it would help.
You know it's funny. I have ASD as well and to be honest, I'm really glad I do.
(note, i'm being serious)
I agree. Pro musicians who really know how to play may end up getting more gigs than ever. And just for sake of comparison, people should remember that we are living in a time that DJ's can fill stadiums (see: Steve Aoki...Someone please remind me of the instruments DJ's play?) and anime characters can fill stadiums (see: Hatsune Miku)... From where I'm standing, I see more opportunities for people to get creative to emphasize the advantages of hiring a real person and get new fans and new gigs.
I'm glad to have ASD as well. ☺️ I like the way I think. I can solve problems in novel ways no neurotypical person could do. I am extremely creative because of my unique brain. And yes, I'm being serious. Cheers, my friend. 🍻
It probably doesn’t make much difference to audiences who are happy to pay ridiculous sums of money to see artists who lip sync at huge venues as they don’t care about how it’s produced. Plenty have been found out over the years, as varied as Kiss to Taylor Swift, yet fans are either in denial or accepting of the practice.
However, I can’t imagine going to a coffee shop and seeing a guy sat in the corner with his iPad connected to a small PA and getting any enjoyment out of it. But someone at a piano or with an acoustic guitar with occasional small issues with pitching vocals, and that’s an experience that is much more appreciated in that environment.
Bottom line is it’s dependent on what you play and where you play it.
Oof! Good point! Forgot that so many people don't seem to care who makes it. They just want to see a spectacle.
Yep. When I think back to what I paid decades ago to see bands who put on a great show as musicians compared to ticket prices now to listen to pre-recorded tracks being played back it’s just mind boggling.
Right? So really - what's the difference? The vast majority of these 'fans' don't really give a rat's bottom if the music is made by AI or not - they just want to see that hot performer with their mouth moving. Has it ever really been different in the past century?
The difference to me in truly live music is the imperfections and not being distracted by style over substance. I don’t care about costumes, dance routines, video screens, or product placement - I just want the music and a raw performance.
Some of the older among the crowd here may remember the group, Milli Vanilli, which created a scandal back in the late 1980s when it was discovered they were lip syncing their performances to a recorded track. I'm not sure that the mere act of lip syncing would have done them in even then, but it turned out that the recorded tracks they were lip syncing to were not even their own voices!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milli_Vanilli#Lip-syncing_exposure_and_media_backlash,_1989–1991
Can AI make glitchy experimental type music that’s any good? Just wondering how clever it is in that sort of away from the beaten track realm.
I remember that, and if you go even further back it was the same with Boney M, only they had all their hits before it was found that the ‘band’ wasn’t responsible for any of the vocals.
Now, that's an interesting question...
Ah, that beautiful image of AI doing everything for us, we’ll just sit back and consume.
Bliss!!
The power for an 8-year-old to generate a big-band jazz piece with a 5-part vocal harmony, with a trip-hop bridge thrown in for lolz, means the commercial value of the sound itself drops precipitously.
I write marketing propaganda for a living. Generative AI has crashed the value of the written word, especially for those of us with experience. The average CEO and CFO think: Why pay for my experience when a recent college grad can generate a month's mediocre content in a few hours? No one reads it anyway.
Likewise, I'm sure AI threatens the livelihoods of many musicians who make jingles for ads. Generative AI is the most price-competitive option when "no one listens to it anyway."
Professionals in this unexciting but income-generating world have to adopt AI tools to stay competitive for a shrinking number of jobs. I'm currently working on a project that pays 25% of what it would have four years ago. It's an industrial company's website, so art isn't the goal. In this context, I know how to coax decent results out of ChatGPT, so I can do the work in 25% of the time. But I have to find a way to fill in the income gap, and the competition has multiplied enormously.
I'm sure commercial audio people are facing the same problem.
I don't think we will ever lose real art, like live musical performance or hand-crafted stories. But we are likely to see an ever smaller pot of money available for artists to make a living doing it (i.e., not just a side gig). Fewer artists will make a fortune by just releasing recordings.
I still enjoy writing stories and futzing about with my sound toys. By all accounts, sales of musical gear keep growing, so there are lots of us doing this. The industry is not the art. Of course, you can't eat art or authenticity, and that sucks for folks who are threatened with joblessness or significant underemployment by this tech that's been imposed upon the world.
I hold on to a certain faith that we'll turn a corner and establish clear standards for authenticating human-created art of all kinds, so people who aren't completely bot-brained can still choose to interact with real human expression, not just simulacra. These solutions won't come from the oligarchy, though.
Well everyone makes better music than I do so I'm sure AI does it already. I don't care about that but I do care about artists who will lose employment.
I find AI boring. In the past, my wife and I have enjoyed watching short videos, usually funny animal stuff. In the last few months there were many AI videos popping up, for instance a video of a mountain lion chasing a sheep, or a puppy with a duck or something. As soon as either of us noticed the video was AI we lost interest.
It's the difference between a person describing their horrible ordeal when the ship sank or listening to someone telling me the plot of a rerun episode of Gilligan's Island. The first is interesting precisely because it really happened, the second is painfully boring.
The result is we don't watch any of those videos anymore. It's that tedious and now would feel like an entire waste of time.
What if AI starts to make all art seem boring?
I'll just keep making music and having real friends and real adventures.