A new AI album dedicated to my friends here at the Forum

jwmmakerofmusic · May 23

@ecou said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
@MadeofWax , I must rebuttle one thing you said. "I did not post this to debate AI". I'm sorry, Mac, but you need to set your expectations a bit more realistically. Posting AI generated stuff in this forum is basically taking a stick to poke a hornet's nest. 😂 In other words, you should expect there to be a little bit of backlash and maybe getting a few stings along the way.

I totally agree. Go post a Ai generated comic book in a forum were people draw and tell them it’s dedicate to them. See how they feel about it.

Man, I can see the appeal of hearing one's music reimagined with AI, but like Ailerom said, it's best not to share it. 🫣 I mean, I have tried the "kind and peaceful" route above, but I won't lie. I really don't care to see future AI generated stuff here, let alone anything AI generated dedicated to me (and others).

I used to respect Mac, as he was a prolific musician here. However, this thread has soured my opinion. But then again, that's just my opinion. Sad, because Mac is talented.

MadeofWax · May 23

@ecou said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
@MadeofWax , I must rebuttle one thing you said. "I did not post this to debate AI". I'm sorry, Mac, but you need to set your expectations a bit more realistically. Posting AI generated stuff in this forum is basically taking a stick to poke a hornet's nest. 😂 In other words, you should expect there to be a little bit of backlash and maybe getting a few stings along the way.

I totally agree. Go post a Ai generated comic book in a forum were people draw and tell them it’s dedicate to them. See how they feel about it.

The people it was dedication to were perfectly happy to hear them

I've been able to reconnect with them and for that I am incredibly happy

If you enter a post that celebrates others to argue about the celebration, that's your decision

No one forced you to come here

I was a member here for a very long time

I left because of people like you

If making others uncomfortable is what brings you joy as I said before

I hope you have the life you deserve

Mac

ecou · May 23

@MadeofWax said:

@ecou said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
@MadeofWax , I must rebuttle one thing you said. "I did not post this to debate AI". I'm sorry, Mac, but you need to set your expectations a bit more realistically. Posting AI generated stuff in this forum is basically taking a stick to poke a hornet's nest. 😂 In other words, you should expect there to be a little bit of backlash and maybe getting a few stings along the way.

I totally agree. Go post a Ai generated comic book in a forum were people draw and tell them it’s dedicate to them. See how they feel about it.

The people it was dedication to were perfectly happy to hear them

I've been able to reconnect with them and for that I am incredibly happy

If you enter a post that celebrates others to argue about the celebration, that's your decision

No one forced you to come here

I was a member here for a very long time

I left because of people like you

If making others uncomfortable is what brings you joy as I said before

I hope you have the life you deserve

Mac

I started with a question. You went on the defensive. I choose not to answer to your post points because it would go no where.

I am out of your thread and I hope you have a good life.

LinearLineman · May 24

I left this forum because of the intolerance I saw that shut down the free flow of ideas I loved when I first joined in 2018.

I agree there were subjects that were important but were beyond the parameters of a music forum.
I don’t think AI is one of them.

In the 1990s I had a very successful business representing commercial illustrators. When stock illustration fueled by computers and the internet reached a tipping point in the late 90s my business was finished in three or four months. That was almost thirty years ago. The world has gone on. We accept the reality that customer designed, bespoke images no longer made economic sense for 95% of client needs. Many illustrators became real estate agents. It definitely was the end of an era.

I don’t think anyone is still bitching about it. The world has moved on. We cannot stop technological progress, even though it may destroy us as it has probably destroyed thousands of technologically based civilizations in far off galaxies.

As artists we can make art with any tools we choose. I just posted an AI video of my work that was impossible without AI. What the software did was save me tens of thousands of dollars, months of effort and wrote a song for it far better than I could have written or produced. I feel it is mine. I wrote the novel that fueled it. They are my characters with the personalities I invented for them. I made artistic choices all along the way that made it better. I struggled with the medium and now see the criticism. That all sounds like art to me!

If you want to make all human art and try to make a living from it I say go for it. But to try to suppress the new is like saying electronic music shouldn’t be made… only acoustic! If those Luddites succeeded this forum wouldn’t exist.

I find it disappointing and sad that there is so much fear and exclusionism expressed here. Especially since Mac was only showing off some really good stuff that he worked hard on. Can’t we celebrate that with our friend, who has demonstrated his artistic abilities time and time again?

As always, we have the right to listen or not. I am concerned about the environmental and economic effects of AI. I guess I would have been concerned about the internal combustion engine, too. I mean, all those farriers lost their jobs shoeing horses! Not to mention the they had to invent Stop signs. Ugh!
Don’t make me stop!!

I just think it is inappropriate to impose personal wishes and fear upon the creation of art. To unilaterally determine something is not art and expect everyone to agree. And especially to use those opinions to try to limit the free flow of ideas and expression. It’s not a good look, in my opinion.

MrStochastic · May 24

I’m a sympathizer with both sides of this. I’ve been using ai now for all kinds of problem solving that’s helped me a lot. I’ve gotten into ‘conversations’ and learned things but I could never want to see it as a friend or confide my personal issues with it. I’ve had amazing results taking old photos and animating them: My great grandfather leading a horse and plow, my wife’s grandmother as a child opening a birdcage. It’s mind boggling. The music stuff is also fun but I never think of trying to share it outside of my friends. Being able to use my own songs and melodies is hard to resist.

It's amusing but only playing and creating my own music is life-giving.

Then, on the other hand, ai may be participating in the collapse of society. All the dreck we will drown in; all the misinformation so easy to produce; the expense of it all.

In the early 90s I had the good fortune to work several years for a CD Rom publisher making music and sound design. It was one of the happiest times of my life. But then the internet happened and it evaporated; no need for CD Roms. Should I have wished for no internet?

(ps., @LinearLineman , where can I see this video you made.)

LinearLineman · May 24

@MrStochastic .
You can see it on Yourube. Here’s the link to the thread here.

https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/68560/dogmerica-ai-music-video-promo#latest

gusgranite · May 24

@LinearLineman said:
We cannot stop technological progress, even though it may destroy us as it has probably destroyed thousands of technologically based civilizations in far off galaxies.

What an awesome cosmic Sci-Fi thing to say! Great to hear from you again LL!

tubespace · May 25

@LinearLineman said:
I left this forum because of the intolerance I saw that shut down the free flow of ideas I loved when I first joined in 2018.

I agree there were subjects that were important but were beyond the parameters of a music forum.
I don’t think AI is one of them.

In the 1990s I had a very successful business representing commercial illustrators. When stock illustration fueled by computers and the internet reached a tipping point in the late 90s my business was finished in three or four months. That was almost thirty years ago. The world has gone on. We accept the reality that customer designed, bespoke images no longer made economic sense for 95% of client needs. Many illustrators became real estate agents. It definitely was the end of an era.

I don’t think anyone is still bitching about it. The world has moved on. We cannot stop technological progress, even though it may destroy us as it has probably destroyed thousands of technologically based civilizations in far off galaxies.

As artists we can make art with any tools we choose. I just posted an AI video of my work that was impossible without AI. What the software did was save me tens of thousands of dollars, months of effort and wrote a song for it far better than I could have written or produced. I feel it is mine. I wrote the novel that fueled it. They are my characters with the personalities I invented for them. I made artistic choices all along the way that made it better. I struggled with the medium and now see the criticism. That all sounds like art to me!

If you want to make all human art and try to make a living from it I say go for it. But to try to suppress the new is like saying electronic music shouldn’t be made… only acoustic! If those Luddites succeeded this forum wouldn’t exist.

I find it disappointing and sad that there is so much fear and exclusionism expressed here. Especially since Mac was only showing off some really good stuff that he worked hard on. Can’t we celebrate that with our friend, who has demonstrated his artistic abilities time and time again?

As always, we have the right to listen or not. I am concerned about the environmental and economic effects of AI. I guess I would have been concerned about the internal combustion engine, too. I mean, all those farriers lost their jobs shoeing horses! Not to mention the they had to invent Stop signs. Ugh!
Don’t make me stop!!

I just think it is inappropriate to impose personal wishes and fear upon the creation of art. To unilaterally determine something is not art and expect everyone to agree. And especially to use those opinions to try to limit the free flow of ideas and expression. It’s not a good look, in my opinion.

Is the pushback here about banning AI or denying technological change? Maybe for some people. For me it’s about context. This is a music making forum, right? Members are not automatically obligated to celebrate every output-generating technology just because it is new.
I guess I see that some people do say some big things like "f*** AI" or whatever. That's extreme.

But I'm just saying there's a big difference between tools that extend a musician’s craft and tools that substitute for large portions of it. Substituting. iOS apps still leave the musical labour visibly in the hands of the person using them. AI song generation changes the whole dang center of gravity. Cranking it out through AI is basically directing a system that has absorbed other people’s musical language at massive scale. Some cool results, for sure. I don’t think it is unreasonable for a music-making community to feel cautious about it. Not every new technology deserves the same kind of welcome in every creative space.

But very interesting discussion.

BTW - how many of us really get the life we deserve? I think we all deserve even better, but that's just me.

1ktone · May 25

Maybe it’s my own bias but I think I actually find the original versions easier to listen to in some indefinable way.
I appreciate what you’re doing and where you’re going with all of this.
It’s all very interesting.

As a by the way, can someone tell me the difference between using AI to generate a musical idea and using an app that generates MIDi melodic and chord progressions for you? I’m not defending one or the other, just curious what the fundamental difference actually is in this computer based creative world.

daddyfalldown · May 25

@1ktone said:
Maybe it’s my own bias but I think I actually find the original versions easier to listen to in some indefinable way.
I appreciate what you’re doing and where you’re going with all of this.
It’s all very interesting.

As a by the way, can someone tell me the difference between using AI to generate a musical idea and using an app that generates MIDi melodic and chord progressions for you? I’m not defending one or the other, just curious what the fundamental difference actually is in this computer based creative world.

I think the difference between Generative Music and Generative AI is like the difference between panning for gold and alchemy.

AudioGus · May 25

@tubespace said:

@LinearLineman said:
I left this forum because of the intolerance I saw that shut down the free flow of ideas I loved when I first joined in 2018.

I agree there were subjects that were important but were beyond the parameters of a music forum.
I don’t think AI is one of them.

In the 1990s I had a very successful business representing commercial illustrators. When stock illustration fueled by computers and the internet reached a tipping point in the late 90s my business was finished in three or four months. That was almost thirty years ago. The world has gone on. We accept the reality that customer designed, bespoke images no longer made economic sense for 95% of client needs. Many illustrators became real estate agents. It definitely was the end of an era.

I don’t think anyone is still bitching about it. The world has moved on. We cannot stop technological progress, even though it may destroy us as it has probably destroyed thousands of technologically based civilizations in far off galaxies.

As artists we can make art with any tools we choose. I just posted an AI video of my work that was impossible without AI. What the software did was save me tens of thousands of dollars, months of effort and wrote a song for it far better than I could have written or produced. I feel it is mine. I wrote the novel that fueled it. They are my characters with the personalities I invented for them. I made artistic choices all along the way that made it better. I struggled with the medium and now see the criticism. That all sounds like art to me!

If you want to make all human art and try to make a living from it I say go for it. But to try to suppress the new is like saying electronic music shouldn’t be made… only acoustic! If those Luddites succeeded this forum wouldn’t exist.

I find it disappointing and sad that there is so much fear and exclusionism expressed here. Especially since Mac was only showing off some really good stuff that he worked hard on. Can’t we celebrate that with our friend, who has demonstrated his artistic abilities time and time again?

As always, we have the right to listen or not. I am concerned about the environmental and economic effects of AI. I guess I would have been concerned about the internal combustion engine, too. I mean, all those farriers lost their jobs shoeing horses! Not to mention the they had to invent Stop signs. Ugh!
Don’t make me stop!!

I just think it is inappropriate to impose personal wishes and fear upon the creation of art. To unilaterally determine something is not art and expect everyone to agree. And especially to use those opinions to try to limit the free flow of ideas and expression. It’s not a good look, in my opinion.

Is the pushback here about banning AI or denying technological change? Maybe for some people. For me it’s about context. This is a music making forum, right? Members are not automatically obligated to celebrate every output-generating technology just because it is new.
I guess I see that some people do say some big things like "f*** AI" or whatever. That's extreme.

But I'm just saying there's a big difference between tools that extend a musician’s craft and tools that substitute for large portions of it. Substituting. iOS apps still leave the musical labour visibly in the hands of the person using them. AI song generation changes the whole dang center of gravity. Cranking it out through AI is basically directing a system that has absorbed other people’s musical language at massive scale. Some cool results, for sure. I don’t think it is unreasonable for a music-making community to feel cautious about it. Not every new technology deserves the same kind of welcome in every creative space.

But very interesting discussion.

BTW - how many of us really get the life we deserve? I think we all deserve even better, but that's just me.

The problem for me in a forum like this is lack of context for what the person posting actually did. Prompt and ghost? Elaborate pipeline? Who knows...

AudioGus · May 25

@daddyfalldown said:

@1ktone said:
Maybe it’s my own bias but I think I actually find the original versions easier to listen to in some indefinable way.
I appreciate what you’re doing and where you’re going with all of this.
It’s all very interesting.

As a by the way, can someone tell me the difference between using AI to generate a musical idea and using an app that generates MIDi melodic and chord progressions for you? I’m not defending one or the other, just curious what the fundamental difference actually is in this computer based creative world.

I think the difference between Generative Music and Generative AI is like the difference between panning for gold and alchemy.

Alchemy where you steal part of someone's soul with a new fangled contraption.

Rodrigo1709 · May 25

@GeoTony said:
Thanks Mac… Old is a given and friend is something I really appreciate 🙏

Re AI, pass me a fence to sit on…
I can see and hear good and bad in AI…
Used for good 😊
Otherwise ☹️
If you actually listen to the music on Mac’s album it’s pretty darned good (imho)… thanks for posting Mac 👍

Bill (Saunders) who used to post here and is another lovely human being that has been frightened away did a similar thing with a track I contributed to…
This is the original

This is the AI version… rubbish viola playing but as in Mac’s music well worth listening to 😊
https://violetremedy.bandcamp.com/track/tunnels

as an aside Mac’s videos on YT are well worth watching!

Moving away from AI, Bill is still producing great music with a great quirky view of life on SC here https://soundcloud.com/billsaunders9876

and you should check out Joseph’s (another long lost member) sublime music on YT such as this…

I may be sidetracking the main discussion here, but I wanted to thank you for recommending the work of these former members of the forum. Bill Saunders' music is intelligent and intriguing, I feel like I never know what to fully expect when I start listening to one of his songs, and Joseph's music in this video is really detailed and moving, sublime indeed!

pbelgium · May 25

Sorry I missed this earlier. It's a most enjoyable album, thanks for sharing @MadeofWax. I believe you're one of the good guys who makes good use of the tools readily available to you. Cheers.

Paulieworld · May 26

Hey Mac! Looks like you really started a firestorm here. You’re already up to page 3… and counting. Well done! I agree with @pbelgium. You are one of the good guys. Follow your heart and ignore the noise.

I did something similar in January. That is, I posted an opposing point of view on a subject that I didn’t really care about. Just because. The results were completely predictable. You wouldn’t believe some of the names I was called! The internet allows anybody to come off as a tough guy. Posting vicious anonymous comments from their parent’s basement. Back in my day, we took it out to the parking lot. I got my ass kicked a few times. Then again, I kicked ass a few times, too. Good times!

FizzyLizzy27 · May 26

@Paulieworld said:
Hey Mac! Looks like you really started a firestorm here. You’re already up to page 3… and counting. Well done! I agree with @pbelgium. You are one of the good guys. Follow your heart and ignore the noise.

I did something similar in January. That is, I posted an opposing point of view on a subject that I didn’t really care about. Just because. The results were completely predictable. You wouldn’t believe some of the names I was called! The internet allows anybody to come off as a tough guy. Posting vicious anonymous comments from their parent’s basement. Back in my day, we took it out to the parking lot. I got my ass kicked a few times. Then again, I kicked ass a few times, too. Good times!

Gotta say @Paulieworld we may not always agree on things but you’re entertaining to have around. I appreciate the different perspectives, and I imagine you are quite the ass kicker.

Paulieworld · May 26

@FizzyLizzy27

Regarding ass kicking...

MrStochastic · May 27

More AI news:
The CEO of Barnes & Noble said he had “no problem” selling AI-generated books;
a recent winner of the Nobel Prize in literature said that she often turns to AI for ideas, asking “darling, how could we develop this beautifully?”;
a literary magazine’s publisher admitted that a prize-winning short story from the magazine was found by Claude to almost certainly be AI-generated.

AudioGus · May 27

From Chat GPT...

MrStochastic · May 27

@AudioGus said:
From Chat GPT...

🥸 🤖 - You found me out!

Actually I copy pasted from Harper's Weekly Review newsletter. The original has citations but I was too lazy to bother with those.

tubespace · May 28

@Paulieworld said:
Back in my day, we took it out to the parking lot. I got my ass kicked a few times. Then again, I kicked ass a few times, too. Good times!

That is an odd thing to say in this thread. So 'kicking ass' and 'getting your ass kicked' is what you call "Good times"?
Your comment comes off as a bit aggressive. We were just discussing AI generated music at a forum for people who create music themselves. I don't understand what physical violence has to do with this at all.
What a sad downturn in this discussion.

jwmmakerofmusic · May 28

@tubespace said:

@Paulieworld said:
Back in my day, we took it out to the parking lot. I got my ass kicked a few times. Then again, I kicked ass a few times, too. Good times!

That is an odd thing to say in this thread. So 'kicking ass' and 'getting your ass kicked' is what you call "Good times"?
Your comment comes off as a bit aggressive. We were just discussing AI generated music at a forum for people who create music themselves. I don't understand what physical violence has to do with this at all.
What a sad downturn in this discussion.

Lol. I think Paulie's comment was meant to be in jest with sarcastic humor and not meant to be taken at face value. Conveying humor online though can be a bitch (at least without using emojis).

Paulieworld · May 28

@jwmmakerofmusic Hi Jim. Thanks for weighing in on this. Humor is a funny thing (pun intended). I loved Monty Python, Rodney Dangerfield, and Sam Kinison. That type of comedy would never be tolerated these days. Fortunately, there are still a few guys like you that “get it”. Let’s just make some music and have a little fun with it. Hope to see you next year at the parade!

jwmmakerofmusic · May 28

@Paulieworld said:
@jwmmakerofmusic Hi Jim. Thanks for weighing in on this. Humor is a funny thing (pun intended). I loved Monty Python, Rodney Dangerfield, and Sam Kinison. That type of comedy would never be tolerated these days.

I grew up with the likes of Seinfeld and the Hughleys, and in my years at uni I loved George Carlin and Bernie Mac and Everybody Hates Chris. I have a sense of humor the youngsters would find "oh so offensive". My boss at my residency and I tease each other all the time and have a ball. Your jokes about "kicking ass" are mild in comparison. 😂

Fortunately, there are still a few guys like you that “get it”.

I try. Sometimes I don't "get it", but in your case, I'm relieved to find out my assumptions about you joking were correct. 😂 At least I found your comments humorous.

Let’s just make some music and have a little fun with it. Hope to see you next year at the parade! 😆

What parade? You call that a "good time"? What does that have to do with lacking a sense of humor? Did you use AI to generate those last two sentences? What a sad turndown in our discussion. 😏 (Why yes, if you want to be pedantic about it, that is me using sarcastic ironic humor. 😂 )

Paulieworld · May 28

@jwmmakerofmusic The International Synthesizer Day parade!

jwmmakerofmusic · May 28

@Paulieworld said:
@jwmmakerofmusic The International Synthesizer Day parade!

Ha! Yessir. I created that Synthesizer Day 2026 piece in Koala using Moog synths as the basis for all the sounds of that drone. Koala's recent addition of AUv3 hosting means it's easier than ever for me to cobble together great music within it at lightning fast speed. ❤️

Paulieworld · May 28

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Paulieworld said:
@jwmmakerofmusic The International Synthesizer Day parade!

Ha! Yessir. I created that Synthesizer Day 2026 piece in Koala using Moog synths as the basis for all the sounds of that drone. Koala's recent addition of AUv3 hosting means it's easier than ever for me to cobble together great music within it at lightning fast speed. ❤️

Speedy is good, except for sex. At least, that’s what I remember.

jwmmakerofmusic · May 28

@Paulieworld said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Paulieworld said:
@jwmmakerofmusic The International Synthesizer Day parade!

Ha! Yessir. I created that Synthesizer Day 2026 piece in Koala using Moog synths as the basis for all the sounds of that drone. Koala's recent addition of AUv3 hosting means it's easier than ever for me to cobble together great music within it at lightning fast speed. ❤️

Speedy is good, except for sex. At least, that’s what I remember.

Hahahaha. 😂

Telstar5 · May 28

“Linear Lineman”.. Wow, what happened to him? I used to see him in here constantly. Now, not

Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

A new AI album dedicated to my friends here at the Forum

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