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Comments
Ahhh shit. iMazing isn't working for me anymore. I get an error when I try to back up apps.
The price of that mini I mentioned just doubled 🤑
Your girl has left you. She’s not coming back. Time to move on. 😁😎✌🏼
I backed up NS2 via iMazing a few months back, but I don't recall specifically backing up the IAPs. Are they bundled with the backup, I wonder? The file size in my Library is 178.53 MB, if that helps.
No, they aren't included in the backup.
Apparently if you "Offloaded" NS2 and then restore from the iMazing backup, it will connect with the IAP content since it was never removed from the device. But on a different device or if the app was deleted, the IAP content won't be restored from the backup.
There were some workarounds discussed in another thread around when the announcement was made that NS2 was on its way out. They involved exporting presets or something. I forget.
Ack! I'm glad I never attempted to do a test delete-restore!
I guess we just have to accept the possibility of losing the IAPs at some point. Not a major, major loss.
I JUST restored NS2 on my iPad Pro, that I just got replaced at the Apple Store last week using iMazing. Luckily I still had NS2 installed on my old iPhone 12. I was able to successfully back it up from the iPhone and restore it to my iPad using the same Apple ID. Unfortunately, it DID NOT backup the IAPs…and I had purchased them all. And, there’s no way to restore them from within NS2 itself.
They’re still on the phone…so, I’m going to see if there’s any possible way to move them over. I’ll report back if I have any success.
I think on the iPhone you can create a project that has IAP’s on various tracks. Slightly adjust the IAP (one at a time) by adjusting the octave range of the keyboard. This should allow you to save it as a User preset. Use the same name with something like v2. Then archive the project and send it to the iPad. Then on the iPad you should be able to save those newly tweaked IAP/User presets. Now, I haven’t actually done this to be sure it works, but this is what I would try. Tedious to do all IAPs one at a time, and there may be another way, but this might be a first attempt for your favs. Let us know of it works!
That is interesting. You were able to back up NS2 from the phone? Or had you already done that at some point? In theory you shouldn't be able to back up from a device since the backup always downloads from the App Store per my understanding.
If that's the case, it may be that Apple hasn't completely removed all traces of NS2 from the servers. I know that the timing of the ultimate purging is indefinite, so I tend to think this is the case. But, perhaps there's a loophole that I haven't heard of. 🤷🏼♂️
I have found cases where iMazing was able to access apps that had been removed from the store and the dev had closed their account. It seems like the actual removal from the server is haphazard .
Hopefully iMazing will figure be able to workaround whatever App Store change broke the library download.
if somebody here's on good terms with matt blip, they can just ask him for the presets? he's no longer selling them, and it wouldn't cost him dev fees to share a folder with his forsaken community.
failing that, we could ask if he has any objections to it being a community project to share them amongst ourselves. if 20 people each do 5% of the grunt work, for example, it would be less painful for the individual.
I you mean IAP sample packs - they were created actually for Matt by other guy (this is his site: https://www.platinumaudiolab.com/ ) so Matt can't give the for "free for download" even if he wants.
ah, ok.
same deal with the platinum audio lab man, in that case. he might be enthusiastic about a community wanting to keep his presets alive?
or he might be defensive about samples that he uses in his other offerings, and not want them to be released into the wild. i have no idea, but his wishes must be respected.
i'm not super motivated to set the ball rolling beyond sharing this idea, so if anybody wants to take point on project iap retrieval, feel free.
Please do! I got them when they were made free, but it would be nice to hold on to them.
Worth a shot. But how would one test it without deleting the app and IAPs and risk not having the IAPs restored?
Yeah…. Ignore my previous post.
You can adjust the default octave range the IAP is set to (or some other minor tweak) and save the IAP as a User preset. I tested 80s Lead since it was the first on the list and saved it as 80s Lead v2. In the Patch page, press Manage at the top and select 80s Lead v2, then Export, then AirDrop to your iPad and open in NS2. iPad should receive and open 80s Leas v2 in your iPad’s preset list.
One could do this with all of the Obsidian IAP presets and Export the lot of them in one big Export/AirDrop operation, but it would still involve the tedious saving each preset with a “v2”. Actually, no need for renaming the preset with “v2”. It works just as-is with the same name “80s Lead” because it will now have a purple “U” icon. You don’t need to tweak anything either. Just save IAPs so they are now User presets and then one can export them as a Zip file via AirDrop. I never needed to try this, but it turns out to be quite simple.
To save an IAP Slate Kit, I saved JazzKit-Close with the same name so it was now a User kit (no modifications necessary) and had it as the active kit on a Slate track in a test project. Save & Archived the project, AirDrop, open archived project on other iDevice, and JazzKit-Close was there on the slate track. Open that Slate kit and press the hamburger button at upper right, select Kit instead of Pad at the top, press Save and voila, your IAP kit JazzKit-Close is now a User Kit on the other iDevice. Tedious, but it works.
Deleting the App & IAPs isn’t necessary. If the IAPs are on one device, they can be moved to another device. There may be a more efficient way of doing it that I don’t know about. It could be a wise move to save all IAPs as User presets/kits just to avoid some IAP issue in the future. I will consider doing that.
Gotcha! I'm gonna go through them and back up what I deem indispensable. Thanks!
You’re welcome! It’s smart for us to back-up our digital treasures.
Certainly I am wasting my time yelling into the vast void, but Apple could store the files for NS2 and other abandoned apps to allow ongoing use. Are we not also Apple customers?! I have spent many times more money with Apple than with any Dev, or all of them combined. NS2 doesn’t take up much space and is far more useful to Apple’s customers than any possible perceived value in freeing up a tiny amount of space on Apple's servers. If I look for an updated OS for a vintage hardware synth I can certainly find it somewhere online. Why should Apple lower the bar? Does anyone understand Apple’s position in this? No one from Apple will waste time talking with us, their customers, but maybe someone on this forum understands Apple’s position? They have some other reason to clear space on their servers that I don’t understand? Could they not have a dedicated Abandoned Apps Server?
It would be absolutely trivial for them to do it. In fact, one could argue that it would be more cost effective to store them than to go to the trouble to remove them.
I can think of one line of thinking that might be at play, though I don't think it's the actual one. With a perpetual hosting model, there would be nothing stopping people from creating an account, uploading all their apps, then stopping paying the developer fees right away, essentially getting indefinite hosting and downloading for nothing.
I doubt that's the primary reason. I suspect it has more to do with with wanting to keep developers locked into the yearly "subscription" model. They have a revenue stream there to maintain. I'm not saying they make a direct profit there, they may not. But it is a component of the overall cost structure for the "App Store" ecosystem. Businesses tend to think in silos. The wider implication of customer good will is probably not this silo's primary concern.
Also, we always have to remember, music app buyers are a miniscule portion of the customer base. From a business perspective, giving our needs any kind of priority probably barely registers in the decision making process. Games and streaming content are the bread and butter of the App Store. The ecosystem there is very different from ours.
Definitely gaming, streaming, social media etc. dwarfs our scene. But Apple has always positioned itself as the artistic side of tech. Music production may be small, but it is related to video production, gaming, streaming (TV & movies) and social media. I think that Apple believes they have covered everything musically with Garage Band and Logic.
What I was wondering is, why discard an app that can still make money. If the Dev doesn’t pay dev fees, then Apple gets all the profits of the app sales until the Dev fees are paid. Then back to the usual split. Seems like this should be easy. Abandoned apps could simply have a warning stamped on the AppStore page letting buyers know that there is no support if Apple breaks things with iOS changes. There must be a reason that this apparent example of common sense doesn’t actually work, right?
Apple doesn't own the apps. They can't keep selling something when they're not in a current business relationship with the IP owner.
... which, come to think of it, is a reasonable possibility for why they don't preserve downloads. Contractually, it could get dicey if they continue to provide downloads after the business relationship is dissolved. It would have to be agreed to up front as part of the developer contract agreement, or explicitly agreed on at the end of the relationship. There are potential complications everywhere.
I won't go into details. I'm tired right now. But even foggy headed I can think of about a dozen reasons why any corporate lawyer worth their green fees would say it's a real bad idea.
It could be solved by an "inactive developer" agreement laying out terms, liability, termination clauses, and the like, I suppose. But it would need to be a specifically different business arrangement. Right now, there's no business arrangement any more once a developer agreement is terminated.
Sounds reasonably accurate, but also reasonably workable. The Apple experience is enhanced by all of the Apps available on the AppStore, so why not extend that? Certainly there are other apps that would have a fan base who desire a similar arrangement, be it a game or a photo ”thingie”.
The Dev/Apple arrangement seems weird to me. It isn’t quite the same, but if an artist releases an album through a label, there is a split of royalties (copyright, mechanical, etc.), even if the artist quits music or dies. Royalties and copyright are a completely different area of law compared to the Dev/Apple membership & sales percentage deal, but both the Dev & Apple are losing out on sales because of a $99 membership fee. For the sake of round numbers, if NS2 was for sale at $20, Apple gets $100 after 5 sales (at a 100% arrangement), which handles the Dev membership. Thereafter Apple gets $3 per sale. Since I don’t have sales figures, I don’t know if it was impossible to get 5 sales per year on NS2, but that doesn’t seem hard to me. The appearance is that Apple would prefer to leave that money on the table rather than have some sort of “inactive developer agreement.” (Nice name for that BTW). The frustration of NS2 users who can’t restore offloaded apps or IAPs is at least partially toward Apple, so such a program would have a positive effect in the Apple brand, without costing anything nor adding to the money they already spend on advertising.
I’m sure that the bigger concern has to do with the other legal requirements for Devs, such as providing a telephone number and address, and other regulatory crap. It’s a really a shame that some sort of arrangement can’t be reached, but that’s just the way it is. I’ll still use NS2 and my iDevices, but I’m waiting for Black Friday to get a new laptop and update my Reaper, then get Omnisphere 3. The Apple experience is pushing me back to the PC experience. I can’t be the only one.
Well look at me.. i decided to code entire DAW for myself as final solution of iOS DAW problem 🤣 This one will be not taken away from me by Apple 🤣
I just need to handle my wife which is starting to complain I am going to bed past midnight. Little she know it will be this way at least until end of this year if not more 🤣🤣🤣
I could go into further details of why Apple probably would not want the overhead of trying to maintain such a relationship, and the large differences between a royalties model and the App Store model ... but while it's been an interesting discussion, nothing is ever going to come of it.
Sure, there are many ways Apple could improve the developer model. They're not interested. There's just not enough money in it to grab their attention.
Yeah, I know.
I wish I could code my own DAW & synth, but no.
I imagine Mrs Blip had similar complaints. Maybe promise her a nice vacation when the app is released…?