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Tips, Tricks, or Stereo Spatial Enhancement?
I think I've asked a somewhat similar question before, but it was related to binaural field recording.
Let's say I've made a composition of sounds that I like, but it's all sounding too dense and compact. Let's say that I don't want to trim out or filter out some of the frequencies in order to give it more spatial room, but want to sort of spread out the sounds spatially more? Sort of imagine the sounds in a composition have been compressed into a ball, but I want to apple tips, tricks, or app fx, to give the sonic illusion that they've been exploded out and have more space between them.
Kind of like the aural equivalent of expanding one of those Hoberman sphere toys?
Comments
If you want to stay with stereo binaural tools might be the best option. Not sure if there are any for iOS yet. Otherwise of course you would need real surround recordings where you can spread the channels in the sphere.
Stereo Designer?
But that would just spread it left and right (like every stereo tool of course).
You could combine it with a bit of doppler effect.
Pitch shifter also can "fake" a really wide sound if it will be used right.
Middle and Side - boost the side levels, works very well with binaural stuff (I have to say, I don't know how you would do this on iOS)
I think, with the proper adjustment, SD gives the illusion of a little more than simply left and right, but it might be more of a quick fix than anything else. Something in the Fab Filter portfolio perhaps?
FabFilters all have Mid/Side controls, so you could do it with one of those.
So maybe for example use Pro Q to enhance certain frequencies on the side channels, or use Timeless to add some delay just to the sides, or Pro C to compress and add gain to the sides.
I tried playing with various stereo-izing fx, and also used M/S Processor, and Fab Filter's Pro-Q stereo settings. All helped some, but more of a side to side thing. Not so much spatially in more of a 3D direction.
Figured I'd ask if anyone had more info or could point me in the right direction since I'm kind of scattershot at the moment with my attempts.
I tried Pro-Q2 and was getting closer I think. Tried some relay/delays but were all too overwhelming. Didn't think to try Timeless 2. Might be just that little spatial bit I'm looking for if subtly applied. I don't have Pro-C, but have Saturn and Volcano 2, but sure if those would be useful in this application.
Phase Inversion tricks might work well too.
(Ie. phase-invert one of the channels to start with and mix with a copy from the opposite side, with proper panning and fade in/outs it's possible to make the world spin around and feel really spacious and adding slight delays add to the fun as well). These kind of 'tricks' were used in the Roland RSS-10...
Looks like this would do what I was referring to:
M/S Proc - Mid/Side Level & EQ by ART Teknika Inc.
https://appsto.re/gb/7xhw_.
@skiphunt
Not sure if you mean that you want the sounds to move outward in real time or if you want to place them. In other words are you just trying to create a space, or do you want to explode the sounds from compact to spread out as an effect.
Btw, I was taught that mid/side and stereo width fx create position left to right, while (high quality) detailed reverb create position front to back.
I love it when someone nudges me back to an app I already have but have done bugger all with
AUM has some options.
I messed around with AUM's stereo settings too. I liked what I was getting but it was mostly side to side and less overall. But, it was getting closer. That's about the time I posted the query. Was heading the right direction but was hoping for more suggestions. I think the Fab Filter M/S approach suggested will likely get me closer.
Intrigued by the M/S Proc - Mid/Side Level & EQ by ART Teknika Inc. app suggested, but there are only 2 reviews. One says it's 1-star and doesn't work, and the other says it's the bomb with 5-star.
I'm curious if it may be redundant with the capabilities available in the Fab Filter stuff as @richardyot suggested.
Thanks for all the feedback. It's given me some ways to tune my approach a bit more narrow than clueless scattershot.
Presumably you've seen this video from FabFilter? It's worth watching because you can simply use the pan ring in Pro Q to enhance the stereo width, and also it shows which frequencies work best if you want to push the effect further:
Your mix needs to sound good in mono. Most iPhone speakers are mono. Older iPads are mono. So, once you have made your stereo placements - something I heartily agree with doing - you do need to focus on the EQ balance of the mix primarily so that it actually does sound fine in mono and doesn't collapse with phase issues or sound muddy and boxy.
As has been said above, you can further narrow items in the stereo field using Pro-C and M/S. I appreciate the Pro-Q tip there @richardyot - one I'll have to look into
Stereo designer's useful on the final output master bus but not being AU can only be used once at present. AUM also as has been pointed out can help.
So, you can help the situation in stereo, but that will not do you very much good ultimately when you then listen to it on an iPhone if the EQ balance is wrong in the mix. It's tempting to say: "Who listens in mono anymore?" - the answer is - "Still a lot of people" - in fact we all do
Supermarket speakers, elevator speakers, small radios, iPhones. Mono sources are also common in bars, clubs, etc. etc. etc.
No, I had not seen that. Very useful! I'd got closer playing with the stereo settings in Pro-Q2 but only via L/R and not M/S. Will explore further. Thanks!
And, this video seems to allude to @samu 's approach of phase inverting too, but via mic choices. Or, am I confusing that info?
@MusicInclusive thanks for the added info
The other thing you also want to do is to experiment with reverb levels. More reverb = farther away to the ear. Less = nearer. So you can also create a depth illusion which also enhances the stereo field perception. Height is affected by frequency. Higher frequencies sound higher (in elevation). Lower conversely. So, it's not all about width. (Depth / reverb and height / frequency work to some extent for clarifying a mix in mono too assuming you can hear the differences because you have also EQ'd properly
)
Sadly Pro-R is one of the few FabFilters that doesn't have mid-side controls, however it's possible to use Pro Q2 in the chain first so that you only add reverb to the side channels. I'll post a how-to in the Auria Tips and Tricks thread and link back to it from here.
In addition to that, one can also bus the reverb and add EQ in the chain on the bus. And, further, to make sure that one HP (and sometimes LP) filters the reverb signal (whether pre or post (or both) is a matter of effect and ambience).
I do that as a matter of course, in fact it's one of the first tips I posted in the Auria Tips and Tricks thread. However with Pro-R it's no longer such a necessity since you can do that within the plugin itself, it's incredibly precise in fact.
I've posted the tip on applying reverb to the side channels.
Sure :-)
That EQ tutorial from FabFilter is very helpful BTW - thanks for the HU on that. It's a great tutorial on using EQ and M/S processing even if one doesn't have Pro-C to do it with but some other EQ
It's worth watching all of the FabFilter tutorials for those that haven't:
http://www.fabfilter.com/video/
(Oops, perhaps not this picture)
(That's better)
Volcano has some nice filter sweeping things you could probably link to lfo if you were looking for a swirly spatial effect.
As well as those mentioned there is also Haaze by Klevgr
Side to side enhancements have been well-covered here. I just wanted to second @MusicInclusive regarding reverb and/or delays as the predominant tools to cover the third dimension - front to back
I just reread @MusicInclusive 's original post about subtle use of reverb/delay. Had missed the part about using high/low frequencies to help with top/bottom spatial illusion. Interesting... Haven't experimented with that combined approach yet.
Great stuff in this thread. Glad I asked.
This looks to be a brand new iDAW at first blush - thanks to @Sebastian for the heads up tweet. The "room" view mix spacializer made me think of this thread:
Orsilus
https://orsilus.com
Cool
'But that all will have to wait for future tutorials, as I've run out of time in this one.'
-Dan Worral
That guy just blows me away with his voice and cadence.