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Updates to BM3 Resident Advisor Review since November

futureaztecfutureaztec
edited March 2018 in General App Discussion

"Intua seems to have taken inspiration from Native Instruments Maschine, particularly in the sequencing workflow. As with the previous versions, you'll find a typical song-based linear sequencer and pattern editor. Now there is a Scene Mode that works very similarly to its counterpart in Maschine. Scene Mode helps you build a structure by selecting patterns for each track, with the goal in mind of developing a full song using these building blocks. Conceptually, this design is a great way to break through arrangement roadblocks. But in practice, this is one area where Beatmaker 3 feels a little rough around the edges. Creating patterns in Scene Mode takes multiple button presses, and _there's no way to easily record a performance into Song Mode. _

Another potential area of improvement is integration with external hardware. To sequence hardware instruments, you first have to load a sample (preferably a silent one) onto a pad. Then you need to configure the MIDI output for that pad correctly, which feels a bit awkward. And while you can record incoming MIDI into a pattern, MIDI CCs are not recorded. Finally, if you want to record the hardware itself, you have to create a separate audio track to configure the audio inputs as well. It would be nice to see dedicated MIDI tracks or an external instrument device like the one in Ableton Live, which would let you route MIDI and audio all in one convenient package. Instrument CC presets would be even better (it's a key feature that makes ModStep so useful for hardware sequencing). "

https://www.residentadvisor.net/reviews/21783

Have things changed since November? How fluid is it moving from patterns to scenes to songs? Can I not stack tracks and then play the whole arrangement while having one midi track open to jam over the top?

Comments

  • wimwim
    edited March 2018

    Nothing has changed. I wouldn't call it fluid, but the workflow I've adopted is manageable. I create scenes and load up the combinations of patterns that I want in them, messing around until I have the basic flow of the song I want laid out. Then it's a process of:

    1. Press the Song tab and place the play head where it needs to be.
    2. Go back to the Scenes tab and long-press to select Paste to Song
    3. Flip to the Song tab and select the pasted patterns and then press Repeat for the number of times I want that set to repeat.
    4. Place the play head at the end of the song
    5. Flip back to the Scenes tab and repeat from step 2 until all scenes placed
    6. Try not to get frustrated over how much better it could be, but focus on that the workflow is still better than in my other DAWs (this is the hardest part)

    It's tedious and requires attention to detail not to forget to place the cursor at the end of the song each time, not to hit Duplicate instead of Repeat, not to lose track of which scenes you have placed, etc, etc. But as I keep reminding myself, it is overall much, much more effective (for me at least) than arranging only on a linear timeline.

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  • futureaztecfutureaztec

    @wim said:
    Nothing has changed. I wouldn't call it fluid, but the workflow I've adopted is manageable. I create scenes and load up the combinations of patterns that I want in them, messing around until I have the basic flow of the song I want laid out.

    Wicked, thanks for the input.

  • wimwim

    It would be soooooo much easier if you could just set the order of the scenes, set how many times you want each to loop, then just dump it in one batch to the timeline. That seems like it would be so simple to implement.

    I can't complain though because I really don't feel like wading through the Intua forum to make the suggestion properly there and then deal with all the resulting discussion. I'd rather plod along with this and see what eventually comes out as workflow improvements some day.

    Humm ... my de-motivation for pushing for change in music apps seems to be following the same trajectory as my former interest in politics. I wonder if that's good or bad.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @wim said:
    It would be soooooo much easier if you could just set the order of the scenes, set how many times you want each to loop, then just dump it in one batch to the timeline. That seems like it would be so simple to implement.

    I can't complain though because I really don't feel like wading through the Intua forum to make the suggestion properly there and then deal with all the resulting discussion. I'd rather plod along with this and see what eventually comes out as workflow improvements some day.

    Humm ... my de-motivation for pushing for change in music apps seems to be following the same trajectory as my former interest in politics. I wonder if that's good or bad.

    Awww you should just hit and post. No need to lobby. A good idea is a good idea in the end.

  • LucidMusicIncLucidMusicInc

    @wim said:
    I can't complain though because I really don't feel like wading through the Intua forum to make the suggestion properly there and then deal with all the resulting discussion.

    LOL

  • LittlewoodgLittlewoodg

    @wim said:
    Nothing has changed. I wouldn't call it fluid, but the workflow I've adopted is manageable. I create scenes and load up the combinations of patterns that I want in them, messing around until I have the basic flow of the song I want laid out. Then it's a process of:

    1. Press the Song tab and place the play head where it needs to be.
    2. Go back to the Scenes tab and long-press to select Paste to Song
    3. Flip to the Song tab and select the pasted patterns and then press Repeat for the number of times I want that set to repeat.
    4. Place the play head at the end of the song
    5. Flip back to the Scenes tab and repeat from step 2 until all scenes placed
    6. Try not to get frustrated over how much better it could be, but focus on that the workflow is still better than in my other DAWs (this is the hardest part)

    It's tedious and requires attention to detail not to forget to place the cursor at the end of the song each time, not to hit Duplicate instead of Repeat, not to lose track of which scenes you have placed, etc, etc. But as I keep reminding myself, it is overall much, much more effective (for me at least) than arranging only on a linear timeline.

    Seems like drag and drop from scenes list gets you around some of the frustration of repitition of steps above

  • wimwim
    edited March 2018

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:
    Nothing has changed. I wouldn't call it fluid, but the workflow I've adopted is manageable. I create scenes and load up the combinations of patterns that I want in them, messing around until I have the basic flow of the song I want laid out. Then it's a process of:

    1. Press the Song tab and place the play head where it needs to be.
    2. Go back to the Scenes tab and long-press to select Paste to Song
    3. Flip to the Song tab and select the pasted patterns and then press Repeat for the number of times I want that set to repeat.
    4. Place the play head at the end of the song
    5. Flip back to the Scenes tab and repeat from step 2 until all scenes placed
    6. Try not to get frustrated over how much better it could be, but focus on that the workflow is still better than in my other DAWs (this is the hardest part)

    It's tedious and requires attention to detail not to forget to place the cursor at the end of the song each time, not to hit Duplicate instead of Repeat, not to lose track of which scenes you have placed, etc, etc. But as I keep reminding myself, it is overall much, much more effective (for me at least) than arranging only on a linear timeline.

    Seems like drag and drop from scenes list gets you around some of the frustration of repitition of steps above

    Scenes list? OK, that's huge if I've missed that there's such a thing. Where would that be?

    If you mean Patterns list, yes, it is more direct, but I find composing the structure of the song far, far easier in Scenes mode. Its much easier to combine and swap out patterns to build up each section there to me. I lose track of what I'm doing too easily when I have to move things around, replace them, keep track of where I am, etc. in the timeline.

  • LittlewoodgLittlewoodg

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:
    Nothing has changed. I wouldn't call it fluid, but the workflow I've adopted is manageable. I create scenes and load up the combinations of patterns that I want in them, messing around until I have the basic flow of the song I want laid out. Then it's a process of:

    1. Press the Song tab and place the play head where it needs to be.
    2. Go back to the Scenes tab and long-press to select Paste to Song
    3. Flip to the Song tab and select the pasted patterns and then press Repeat for the number of times I want that set to repeat.
    4. Place the play head at the end of the song
    5. Flip back to the Scenes tab and repeat from step 2 until all scenes placed
    6. Try not to get frustrated over how much better it could be, but focus on that the workflow is still better than in my other DAWs (this is the hardest part)

    It's tedious and requires attention to detail not to forget to place the cursor at the end of the song each time, not to hit Duplicate instead of Repeat, not to lose track of which scenes you have placed, etc, etc. But as I keep reminding myself, it is overall much, much more effective (for me at least) than arranging only on a linear timeline.

    Seems like drag and drop from scenes list gets you around some of the frustration of repitition of steps above

    Scenes list? OK, that's huge if I've missed that there's such a thing. Where would that be?

    If you mean Patterns list, yes, it is more direct, but I find composing the structure of the song far, far easier in Scenes mode. Its much easier to combine and swap out patterns to build up each section there to me. I lose track of what I'm doing too easily when I have to move things around, replace them, keep track of where I am, etc. in the timeline.

    When in Scenes (or Song) mode you can access Patterns list for drag and drop...(and Patternds and Scenes are interchangeable terms as far as working in clips of any length) But my nomenclature or my understanding of what we’re talking about might be wonky (it is highly likely I’m not understanding your workflow)

  • wimwim

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:
    Nothing has changed. I wouldn't call it fluid, but the workflow I've adopted is manageable. I create scenes and load up the combinations of patterns that I want in them, messing around until I have the basic flow of the song I want laid out. Then it's a process of:

    1. Press the Song tab and place the play head where it needs to be.
    2. Go back to the Scenes tab and long-press to select Paste to Song
    3. Flip to the Song tab and select the pasted patterns and then press Repeat for the number of times I want that set to repeat.
    4. Place the play head at the end of the song
    5. Flip back to the Scenes tab and repeat from step 2 until all scenes placed
    6. Try not to get frustrated over how much better it could be, but focus on that the workflow is still better than in my other DAWs (this is the hardest part)

    It's tedious and requires attention to detail not to forget to place the cursor at the end of the song each time, not to hit Duplicate instead of Repeat, not to lose track of which scenes you have placed, etc, etc. But as I keep reminding myself, it is overall much, much more effective (for me at least) than arranging only on a linear timeline.

    Seems like drag and drop from scenes list gets you around some of the frustration of repitition of steps above

    Scenes list? OK, that's huge if I've missed that there's such a thing. Where would that be?

    If you mean Patterns list, yes, it is more direct, but I find composing the structure of the song far, far easier in Scenes mode. Its much easier to combine and swap out patterns to build up each section there to me. I lose track of what I'm doing too easily when I have to move things around, replace them, keep track of where I am, etc. in the timeline.

    When in Scenes (or Song) mode you can access Patterns list for drag and drop...(and Patternds and Scenes are interchangeable terms as far as working in clips of any length) But my nomenclature or my understanding of what we’re talking about might be wonky (it is highly likely I’m not understanding your workflow)

    Thanks, I'm not sure I understand, but it sounds as if you're referring to the pattern list only. Scenes and patterns are very different terms. A scene is a group of patterns from different tracks.

    It would be killer if there was a "Scene List" where you could drag scenes onto the song timeline and have all the patterns placed across tracks!! I was totally hoping I had overlooked that when I read your post.

    Thanks for the input. Apologies if I'm still misunderstanding you.

  • LittlewoodgLittlewoodg

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:
    Nothing has changed. I wouldn't call it fluid, but the workflow I've adopted is manageable. I create scenes and load up the combinations of patterns that I want in them, messing around until I have the basic flow of the song I want laid out. Then it's a process of:

    1. Press the Song tab and place the play head where it needs to be.
    2. Go back to the Scenes tab and long-press to select Paste to Song
    3. Flip to the Song tab and select the pasted patterns and then press Repeat for the number of times I want that set to repeat.
    4. Place the play head at the end of the song
    5. Flip back to the Scenes tab and repeat from step 2 until all scenes placed
    6. Try not to get frustrated over how much better it could be, but focus on that the workflow is still better than in my other DAWs (this is the hardest part)

    It's tedious and requires attention to detail not to forget to place the cursor at the end of the song each time, not to hit Duplicate instead of Repeat, not to lose track of which scenes you have placed, etc, etc. But as I keep reminding myself, it is overall much, much more effective (for me at least) than arranging only on a linear timeline.

    Seems like drag and drop from scenes list gets you around some of the frustration of repitition of steps above

    Scenes list? OK, that's huge if I've missed that there's such a thing. Where would that be?

    If you mean Patterns list, yes, it is more direct, but I find composing the structure of the song far, far easier in Scenes mode. Its much easier to combine and swap out patterns to build up each section there to me. I lose track of what I'm doing too easily when I have to move things around, replace them, keep track of where I am, etc. in the timeline.

    When in Scenes (or Song) mode you can access Patterns list for drag and drop...(and Patternds and Scenes are interchangeable terms as far as working in clips of any length) But my nomenclature or my understanding of what we’re talking about might be wonky (it is highly likely I’m not understanding your workflow)

    Thanks, I'm not sure I understand, but it sounds as if you're referring to the pattern list only. Scenes and patterns are very different terms. A scene is a group of patterns from different tracks.

    It would be killer if there was a "Scene List" where you could drag scenes onto the song timeline and have all the patterns placed across tracks!! I was totally hoping I had overlooked that when I read your post.

    Thanks for the input. Apologies if I'm still misunderstanding you.

    No it’s me, I’m still learning the ins and outs.
    I see what you mean, scenes are the verticals loaded with patterns.

  • wimwim

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:
    Nothing has changed. I wouldn't call it fluid, but the workflow I've adopted is manageable. I create scenes and load up the combinations of patterns that I want in them, messing around until I have the basic flow of the song I want laid out. Then it's a process of:

    1. Press the Song tab and place the play head where it needs to be.
    2. Go back to the Scenes tab and long-press to select Paste to Song
    3. Flip to the Song tab and select the pasted patterns and then press Repeat for the number of times I want that set to repeat.
    4. Place the play head at the end of the song
    5. Flip back to the Scenes tab and repeat from step 2 until all scenes placed
    6. Try not to get frustrated over how much better it could be, but focus on that the workflow is still better than in my other DAWs (this is the hardest part)

    It's tedious and requires attention to detail not to forget to place the cursor at the end of the song each time, not to hit Duplicate instead of Repeat, not to lose track of which scenes you have placed, etc, etc. But as I keep reminding myself, it is overall much, much more effective (for me at least) than arranging only on a linear timeline.

    Seems like drag and drop from scenes list gets you around some of the frustration of repitition of steps above

    Scenes list? OK, that's huge if I've missed that there's such a thing. Where would that be?

    If you mean Patterns list, yes, it is more direct, but I find composing the structure of the song far, far easier in Scenes mode. Its much easier to combine and swap out patterns to build up each section there to me. I lose track of what I'm doing too easily when I have to move things around, replace them, keep track of where I am, etc. in the timeline.

    When in Scenes (or Song) mode you can access Patterns list for drag and drop...(and Patternds and Scenes are interchangeable terms as far as working in clips of any length) But my nomenclature or my understanding of what we’re talking about might be wonky (it is highly likely I’m not understanding your workflow)

    Thanks, I'm not sure I understand, but it sounds as if you're referring to the pattern list only. Scenes and patterns are very different terms. A scene is a group of patterns from different tracks.

    It would be killer if there was a "Scene List" where you could drag scenes onto the song timeline and have all the patterns placed across tracks!! I was totally hoping I had overlooked that when I read your post.

    Thanks for the input. Apologies if I'm still misunderstanding you.

    No it’s me, I’m still learning the ins and outs.
    I see what you mean, scenes are the verticals loaded with patterns.

    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

  • lukesleepwalkerlukesleepwalker

    @wim said:
    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

    Yes, it would be cool. What's interesting is that I rarely work the way you do. That is, I find myself either working in Song mode or Scene mode--but rarely do I move from one to the other. I can see how your workflow works; I wonder how many actually do what you do, though...

  • wimwim

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @wim said:
    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

    Yes, it would be cool. What's interesting is that I rarely work the way you do. That is, I find myself either working in Song mode or Scene mode--but rarely do I move from one to the other. I can see how your workflow works; I wonder how many actually do what you do, though...

    It’s really just working in scenes mode, then dumping it all to the song mode at the end so the song can render.

  • LittlewoodgLittlewoodg

    @wim said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @wim said:
    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

    Yes, it would be cool. What's interesting is that I rarely work the way you do. That is, I find myself either working in Song mode or Scene mode--but rarely do I move from one to the other. I can see how your workflow works; I wonder how many actually do what you do, though...

    It’s really just working in scenes mode, then dumping it all to the song mode at the end so the song can render.

    It’s one of the things I like about BM3: like Bitwig, possible workflows are numerous. I particularly like that tracks can play as pattern or timeline, track by track

  • wimwim

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @wim said:
    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

    Yes, it would be cool. What's interesting is that I rarely work the way you do. That is, I find myself either working in Song mode or Scene mode--but rarely do I move from one to the other. I can see how your workflow works; I wonder how many actually do what you do, though...

    It’s really just working in scenes mode, then dumping it all to the song mode at the end so the song can render.

    It’s one of the things I like about BM3: like Bitwig, possible workflows are numerous. I particularly like that tracks can play as pattern or timeline, track by track

    Yes, it’s can be confusing, but the ability to tap a pattern in the pattern browser and have it play instead of whatever is in the timeline is really handy. I used to block off a section to loop, then pick and choose patterns, or jam new ones, then place those in that position, then move on. That worked out pretty well too.

  • lukesleepwalkerlukesleepwalker

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @wim said:
    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

    Yes, it would be cool. What's interesting is that I rarely work the way you do. That is, I find myself either working in Song mode or Scene mode--but rarely do I move from one to the other. I can see how your workflow works; I wonder how many actually do what you do, though...

    It’s really just working in scenes mode, then dumping it all to the song mode at the end so the song can render.

    It’s one of the things I like about BM3: like Bitwig, possible workflows are numerous. I particularly like that tracks can play as pattern or timeline, track by track

    Yes, it’s can be confusing, but the ability to tap a pattern in the pattern browser and have it play instead of whatever is in the timeline is really handy. I used to block off a section to loop, then pick and choose patterns, or jam new ones, then place those in that position, then move on. That worked out pretty well too.

    This is my workflow. It makes sense if you start with the linear timeline as the starting point.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @wim said:
    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

    Yes, it would be cool. What's interesting is that I rarely work the way you do. That is, I find myself either working in Song mode or Scene mode--but rarely do I move from one to the other. I can see how your workflow works; I wonder how many actually do what you do, though...

    It’s really just working in scenes mode, then dumping it all to the song mode at the end so the song can render.

    It’s one of the things I like about BM3: like Bitwig, possible workflows are numerous. I particularly like that tracks can play as pattern or timeline, track by track

    Yes, it’s can be confusing, but the ability to tap a pattern in the pattern browser and have it play instead of whatever is in the timeline is really handy.

    Funny, that just clicked with me yesterday. No need to hop to the Pattern or Song view, very handy!

  • lukesleepwalkerlukesleepwalker

    @AudioGus said:

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @wim said:
    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

    Yes, it would be cool. What's interesting is that I rarely work the way you do. That is, I find myself either working in Song mode or Scene mode--but rarely do I move from one to the other. I can see how your workflow works; I wonder how many actually do what you do, though...

    It’s really just working in scenes mode, then dumping it all to the song mode at the end so the song can render.

    It’s one of the things I like about BM3: like Bitwig, possible workflows are numerous. I particularly like that tracks can play as pattern or timeline, track by track

    Yes, it’s can be confusing, but the ability to tap a pattern in the pattern browser and have it play instead of whatever is in the timeline is really handy.

    Funny, that just clicked with me yesterday. No need to hop to the Pattern or Song view, very handy!

    It's actually a killer feature but like so much of BM3 is largely hidden from most users.

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited April 2018

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @wim said:

    @Littlewoodg said:

    @wim said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @wim said:
    Sure would be cool if it worked that way though.

    Yes, it would be cool. What's interesting is that I rarely work the way you do. That is, I find myself either working in Song mode or Scene mode--but rarely do I move from one to the other. I can see how your workflow works; I wonder how many actually do what you do, though...

    It’s really just working in scenes mode, then dumping it all to the song mode at the end so the song can render.

    It’s one of the things I like about BM3: like Bitwig, possible workflows are numerous. I particularly like that tracks can play as pattern or timeline, track by track

    Yes, it’s can be confusing, but the ability to tap a pattern in the pattern browser and have it play instead of whatever is in the timeline is really handy.

    Funny, that just clicked with me yesterday. No need to hop to the Pattern or Song view, very handy!

    It's actually a killer feature but like so much of BM3 is largely hidden from most users.

    Yah, there are two kinds of apps for me. ones that are like tv remotes where i want to do now what i want now dammit and those that are like instruments and need me to get my learn on. so be it.

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