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New Apple video encourages app developers to switch to a subscription model

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Comments

  • greengrocergreengrocer

    @Turntablist said:
    Surely this would just mean a much more serious approach to buying the software you wish to use, you would subscribe for a month to decide if you like the software, and then cancel subscription if it does not live up to expectations, am i the only person who has bought a whole bunch of things from teh app store that ended up being chaff i deleted from the iPad.
    We are already renting because we can't sell on apps, so if i can try out Cubasis for $3 for a month to decide if i like it or will use it, much better than shelling out $50 and then rarely if ever using it.
    I don't want to go subscription, but with no demos of app or the ability to sell on, from a user perspective it is probably cheaper.

    You're first point is a very good one. I think people will be more cautious to buy

    At the moment you can cancel a buy and get money back on a short noitice with good arguments. How is this with subscriptions. Can you cancel a subscription at all?

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @Samu said:
    While the $1 buck per app and month sounds nice I doubt it will be enough to bring sustainable income to apps with relatively few subscribers like the music apps usually have.
    (Is there even an iOS music app that has reached >10000 active users and how many of those would be willing to go subscription?).

    Even at 1000-3000 subscribers at $1 each would not bring enough income after taxes and other living expenses are paid especially if it's an app with a few developers involved.

    Considering how relatively 'small' the music app market is the subscription prices would have to range from $5-$20 per app for sustainable income for the developer and considering the the pressure to deliver even more features would be high since the users want to get value for their subscription.

    Time will tell where all this goes...

    The whole idea of a big toolshed full of 1$ apps i rarely use is entirely not interesting to me at all. I don't just want the same plug and play, flakey standards/protocols, current generation of iPad music apps paradigm we already have but with micro subscriptions. I assume those hobby level projects would remain one time purchases and still be satisfying for those who are into it.

    I want something like the graphics apps like Affinity Designer, Procreate, Lumafusion etc Since this is the future I won't just mention current iOS apps as that would imply their previous update history/quality etc which I would hope/expect is for that to improve massively.

    For subscriptions...

    1.) Kick ass DAW/Groovestation thing (ala BM3, Cubase, Reaper etc) - $20
    2.) Creative FX apps (ala Sugar Bytes, Stutter Edit kind of stuff etc) - $10-15
    3.) Fab Filters suite (different tiers) - 10-20$
    4.) Synthmaster One (or Massive iOS) with complete library - 10-20$

    Big ticket stuff. Then also the occasional paid, love em and leave em toolshed apps.

  • greengrocergreengrocer

    @Samu said:
    While the $1 buck per app and month sounds nice I doubt it will be enough to bring sustainable income to apps with relatively few subscribers like the music apps usually have.
    (Is there even an iOS music app that has reached >10000 active users and how many of those would be willing to go subscription?).

    Even at 1000-3000 subscribers at $1 each would not bring enough income after taxes and other living expenses are paid especially if it's an app with a few developers involved.

    Considering how relatively 'small' the music app market is the subscription prices would have to range from $5-$20 per app for sustainable income for the developer and considering the the pressure to deliver even more features would be high since the users want to get value for their subscription.

    Time will tell where all this goes...

    I think the goal of Apple is 2 sided.
    1. Apple hopes to get more dedicated developers of apps in long term
    2. Consumers will get hooked deeper in the Apple eco system

    I can imagine that this will empower the bigger and already establish companies, they can develop groups of certain apps and offer them in packages. Also people will go for the more established names/ devs. Because of this consumers that have a few subscriptions running will start buying or subscribing less and less to unknown services. Also the bigger devs/ companies, can fastly copy features of newcomers with original views. WIth the end of affiliate programs (I believe 2 months ago) also there peobably will be less and less review sources. Looks like that we are going to a model with Apple in control of which apps are promoted and that will be in most cases the bigger devs.

  • MrSmileZMrSmileZ

    Unfortunately for music production, could you imagine how many subscriptions you’d have to have...and most people want like 9.99 so a daw and a few plugs would be 100+ bucks per months ...they can suck it

  • SimoSimo
    edited September 2018

    Another big reason I won’t go for any subscription apps is that I often need something for just a moment, then three months pass until I need it again. Subscriptions just don’t work at all with my kind of creative process. It also just plain sucks the fun out of the doing if you have to start thinking in terms of always being on a clock.

  • SamuSamu

    @AudioGus said:

    For subscriptions...

    1.) Kick ass DAW/Groovestation thing (ala BM3, Cubase, Reaper etc) - $20
    2.) Creative FX apps (ala Sugar Bytes, Stutter Edit kind of stuff etc) - $10-15
    3.) Fab Filters suite (different tiers) - 10-20$
    4.) Synthmaster One (or Massive iOS) with complete library - 10-20$

    Big ticket stuff. Then also the occasional paid, love em and leave em toolshed apps.

    Per month or per year, that's the question ;)
    I doubt we'd get the entire FabFilter suite for $10 per month.

    Going at that rate it would be $50-$100 per month in app subscriptions alone...

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited September 2018

    @Samu said:

    @AudioGus said:

    For subscriptions...

    1.) Kick ass DAW/Groovestation thing (ala BM3, Cubase, Reaper etc) - $20
    2.) Creative FX apps (ala Sugar Bytes, Stutter Edit kind of stuff etc) - $10-15
    3.) Fab Filters suite (different tiers) - 10-20$
    4.) Synthmaster One (or Massive iOS) with complete library - 10-20$

    Big ticket stuff. Then also the occasional paid, love em and leave em toolshed apps.

    Per month or per year, that's the question ;)

    Per month.

    I doubt we'd get the entire FabFilter suite for $10 per month.

    I never said that. I said 10-20, different tiers. Meaning how much I would pay, as in 3 or four of the 16.

    Going at that rate it would be $50-$100 per month in app subscriptions alone...

    Yah about 60$ works for me.

  • CRAKROXCRAKROX

    As other have mentioned I think the enforced subscription model would also increase App piracy, i jail broke an old iPhone years ago but didn’t really see the advantage other than piracy which based on the current App Store I could not support as most apps are reasonably priced.
    However if things went south with subscriptions I’d be hoisting the Jolly Roger up the mast and attaching my peg leg.

  • greengrocergreengrocer

    @Samu said:

    @AudioGus said:

    For subscriptions...

    1.) Kick ass DAW/Groovestation thing (ala BM3, Cubase, Reaper etc) - $20
    2.) Creative FX apps (ala Sugar Bytes, Stutter Edit kind of stuff etc) - $10-15
    3.) Fab Filters suite (different tiers) - 10-20$
    4.) Synthmaster One (or Massive iOS) with complete library - 10-20$

    Big ticket stuff. Then also the occasional paid, love em and leave em toolshed apps.

    Per month or per year, that's the question ;)
    I doubt we'd get the entire FabFilter suite for $10 per month.

    Going at that rate it would be $50-$100 per month in app subscriptions alone...

    As I said earlier. People will subscribe to the "trusted" devs. In the end this all is not good for new creative devs and their apps. Because peopel alrady will pay a lot for their subscribed apps.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    ....end of music apps....coming soon to your app store >:)

  • greengrocergreengrocer

    @CRAKROX said:
    As other have mentioned I think the enforced subscription model would also increase App piracy, i jail broke an old iPhone years ago but didn’t really see the advantage other than piracy which based on the current App Store I could not support as most apps are reasonably priced.
    However if things went south with subscriptions I’d be hoisting the Jolly Roger up the mast and attaching my peg leg.

    I thought the jailbreak scene is more or less dead.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @greengrocer said:

    @Samu said:

    @AudioGus said:

    For subscriptions...

    1.) Kick ass DAW/Groovestation thing (ala BM3, Cubase, Reaper etc) - $20
    2.) Creative FX apps (ala Sugar Bytes, Stutter Edit kind of stuff etc) - $10-15
    3.) Fab Filters suite (different tiers) - 10-20$
    4.) Synthmaster One (or Massive iOS) with complete library - 10-20$

    Big ticket stuff. Then also the occasional paid, love em and leave em toolshed apps.

    Per month or per year, that's the question ;)
    I doubt we'd get the entire FabFilter suite for $10 per month.

    Going at that rate it would be $50-$100 per month in app subscriptions alone...

    As I said earlier. People will subscribe to the "trusted" devs. In the end this all is not good for new creative devs and their apps. Because peopel alrady will pay a lot for their subscribed apps.

    One of the things they refer to in the video are metrics that indicate performance usage of an app. As is the case with games you can monitor KPIs (key performance indicators) that can show how many people who have downloaded the app use it regularly, for how long etc. Apple will promote apps if it is shown that the app simply is used a lot even among a very small sample of downloads. If out of a hundred downloads 50 people are glued to the app, you got a hit on your hands. Apple will help to promote it and devs can leverage this data in many other ways. This enables devs to get a leg up and advance quickly (get investors etc) based on cold hard usage data etc.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    That extra money that would be spent on subscriptions would be better budgeted into weekly if not daily groceries where prices are going up all the time. Gotta eat.
    I wouldn’t be able to spend any more per month just to keep up with the model Apple is proposing. Just want to make good music and enjoy making it

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    Ok, say Apple just did the whole App Store as a service. Now, I don’t have the required stats to work it all out, but let’s hypothetically say they could. Say we paid around the same as the Roland cloud. Yeah I would consider that. I would maybe just pay a year at a time.

    The problem with apps as a service like films and music, is what I call ‘the throw away affect’ - nothing becomes that cherished anymore. I still love listening to music, but streamed music is just not the buzz buying albums was. Too much choice. Too little time. Much of what is available begins to seem squeezed into my life instead of lovingly becoming a memory in time.

    Having everything is not always the best option.

    Most other ways of doing apps as a service, just don’t work well for small segment apps. All apps as services do seem to promote mediocrity. Why make something great for a small cut of the cake when many shit game apps will soak more than their share of the money cake.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Ok, say Apple just did the whole App Store as a service.

    Can you describe what that means?

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Ok, say Apple just did the whole App Store as a service. Now, I don’t have the required stats to work it all out, but let’s hypothetically say they could. Say we paid around the same as the Roland cloud. Yeah I would consider that. I would maybe just pay a year at a time.

    The problem with apps as a service like films and music, is what I call ‘the throw away affect’ - nothing becomes that cherished anymore. I still love listening to music, but streamed music is just not the buzz buying albums was. Too much choice. Too little time. Much of what is available begins to seem squeezed into my life instead of lovingly becoming a memory in time.

    Having everything is not always the best option.

    Most other ways of doing apps as a service, just don’t work well for small segment apps. All apps as services do seem to promote mediocrity. Why make something great for a small cut of the cake when many shit game apps will soak more than their share of the money cake.

    Well said!!

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Ok, say Apple just did the whole App Store as a service.

    Can you describe what that means?

    Whatever was on the App Store would be available if you paid your subscription, just as all shows on Netflix are available at that monthly price.

  • MobileMusicMobileMusic
    edited September 2018

    @Michael @Brambos @midiSequencer @j_liljedahl @analog_matt

    Does iOS limit usable memory to AUs based on device configuration / available RAM dynamically at runtime?
    Or is it the same on all devices including iPad Pros?
    (I heard it is some paltry 256 MB for all instances within which AUs need to operate)

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Ok, say Apple just did the whole App Store as a service.

    Can you describe what that means?

    Whatever was on the App Store would be available if you paid your subscription, just as all shows on Netflix are available at that monthly price.

    Hmmmm. Yah very hypothetical given how niche this market is. It feels like it would be super unrealistic charity on Apples part.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @AndyPlankton said:
    OK, so imagine this.... in 3 weeks time.

    Announcement from Korg. We are now subscription based. Apologies to all those who have bought Gadget and all the IAP's at full price, and also our other music making apps like Electribe Wave and iKoassilator but you will no longer be able to use these unless you pay us $5 per month.
    We hope you will understand that this is necessary because Apple are making us do this in order for us to be able to continue to offer our Apps on the iOS platform.

    We understand that because you have already paid for these apps that you feel that you have the right to continue to use them, but because of the small print in the Apple Terms and Conditions that you have signed up to you actually own Jack Shit.

    Whether the above is likely or ethical or whatever doesn't matter, the point is they could legally do it.

    I can imagine a dj app developer doing this... oh Wait!
    I'm not going to say nothing else but bye bye dev
    true history.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Ok, say Apple just did the whole App Store as a service.

    Can you describe what that means?

    Whatever was on the App Store would be available if you paid your subscription, just as all shows on Netflix are available at that monthly price.

    Hmmmm. Yah very hypothetical given how niche this market is. It feels like it would be super unrealistic charity on Apples part.

    Apple is not a niche market. Apple has an estimated 1.3 billion active users. The thing is only Apple can really work out if they could make the App Store as a service work or not. Yes it’s hypothetical, but not wildly so.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Ok, say Apple just did the whole App Store as a service.

    Can you describe what that means?

    Whatever was on the App Store would be available if you paid your subscription, just as all shows on Netflix are available at that monthly price.

    Hmmmm. Yah very hypothetical given how niche this market is. It feels like it would be super unrealistic charity on Apples part.

    Apple is not a niche market. Apple has an estimated 1.3 billion active users. The thing is only Apple can really work out if they could make the App Store as a service work or not. Yes it’s hypothetical, but not wildly so.

    Oh sorry I thought you meant music apps, like the Roland Cloud.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Ok, say Apple just did the whole App Store as a service.

    Can you describe what that means?

    Whatever was on the App Store would be available if you paid your subscription, just as all shows on Netflix are available at that monthly price.

    Hmmmm. Yah very hypothetical given how niche this market is. It feels like it would be super unrealistic charity on Apples part.

    Apple is not a niche market. Apple has an estimated 1.3 billion active users. The thing is only Apple can really work out if they could make the App Store as a service work or not. Yes it’s hypothetical, but not wildly so.

    Oh sorry I thought you meant music apps, like the Roland Cloud.

    But yah most of the most successful apps (games) require constant IAP to even function as games so no way they would kill that cash cow.

  • SlowwFlowwSlowwFloww
    edited September 2018

    Apple is a 926.9 billion dollar company.. As I understand they take a 33% share of app sales..
    Why not change that share and pay the developers some more? Problem solved...

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    Yeah there is that old saying that to really find the criminals, just follow the money :p

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited September 2018

    Apple should create a development embed platform (based on AppleTV ie) that devs could use to make standalone apps... but that business model is more near to Microsoft so no way.
    Solution? Devs (almost audio/video ones) will go subscription model (Adobe-like) or left the platform. Obviously indies are doomed and users will end buying standalone hardware until that platform arises and substitute iOS devices. ATM the NS1 case where people are buying/keeping old iPhones as App vault are one example of this.
    Raspi with Mobmuplat could be another example.

    How difficult could be translate AudioKit to non-Apple platform? Maybe someone could make a dedicated linux embed distro cappable of load iOS apps a la wine?

    edit nerdie talk resources for brave devs:
    http://cdm.link/2018/01/low-latency-os-change-music-gear-made/
    https://forum.juce.com/t/announcement-juce-support-for-embedded-linux/18625
    https://forum.juce.com/t/juce-running-on-raspbian-raspberry-pi/23321/4
    https://forum.juce.com/t/embedded-synthesizer/17179/6

    Can sound nuts but we should take in mind we are a peanuts niche for Apple...

  • Prog1967Prog1967

    I make music for my own amusement. I have never payed for any subscription model on anything I use. I mean if I am getting a tutorial for Logic Pro for instance I will pay for it once, watch the tutorial and call it a day. I know apps is something different that are developed and updated but if I have to pay for an apps yearly then my app hunger will die, I will get a hardware instrument at least I will feel that it is really mine and no one is going to come to my home every month to charge me for using it. Saying that I will go back to be using only my stratocaster and maybe (it will depend if that subscription model doesn't go to computer software) I will save to buy a Linnstrument and call it a day. I have more than a hundred music apps (yes, I am an appaholic). A dollar per app per month will mean 1.200 US$ a year and a Linnstrument costs 1.000. So bye bye Apple

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    Also we have another path which involves the mentioned libpd/mobmuplat and embed platforms like Raspi/teensy in the beautiful works of Otem Rellik

    Final product (prototype proof of concept if you ask me as product manager)

    Internals

    pd Mobmuplat patch for previous prototyping

    His blog for detailed info on any step.
    http://www.otemrellik.com/

    I hope it makes an inspiration for someone.

  • FreeRadioRevoluFreeRadioRevolu

    Any app that i paid for that switches to subscription model will be called out, slammed, and deleted... then I will DEMAND a full refund from devs.
    There’s no way that you can sell a product, then turn around and start charging folks on a monthly basis. If you want to adopt that model from the beginning of sales... then I’ll pass (at least we’ll know before we buy). I appreciate that developers need to eat and work hard... but when you sell something advertised as a finished product, you can’t turn around and start adding fees... i will seriously smash any dev that does this.

  • HmtxHmtx

    welp, looks like I'll be tossing my iPad in the bin and getting out my old guitar and kazoo. Gotta keep making music.

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