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Still no multi core support for audio processing on iOS?

135

Comments

  • drezdrez

    @vov said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov : if you spend some time learning different workflows, you can have a better experience.

    Many hear are getting good results and working with lots of tracks and CPU-heavy instruments and figuring out ways to make that work.

    As others have said: you can't have a desktop experience/workflow on your iPad.

    We can't change that. You have made your feelings clear.

    It feels like you are investing a lot of energy in your disappointment. Maybe focus on figuring out how to make it work for you within its actual limits or move on.


    I’m not talking about ‘experience’ , I’m talking about audio performance which is far far worse on iPads. I haven’t seen a single video of what you call ‘CPU heavy’ project which could compare to what is normal for a laptop. It’s not even possible because iOS doesn’t seem to utilize multi core properly. Of course you could do it by recording and processing each track separately but it’s so lame compared to a laptop. Ipads are crap for music production, just because lazy Apple mangers haven’t time to create a proper environment for this.

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying? Could you elaborate?

  • richardyotrichardyot

    @dendy said:
    yeah, single core performance of A12x is almost same like A12 - that's why 2018 pro models aren't worth to buy compared to 2019 AIR/Mini models, but both A12/A12x are significantly faster in single core operations than A10.

    Like I said in the other thread if I run Ravenscroft on my phone XR which uses an A12, I get instant crackles at all buffer sizes. But on my iPad 10.5 I can play with no crackles. Obviously that's a phone, not an iPad, but nonetheless I found it pretty surprising.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @drez said:

    @vov said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov : if you spend some time learning different workflows, you can have a better experience.

    Many hear are getting good results and working with lots of tracks and CPU-heavy instruments and figuring out ways to make that work.

    As others have said: you can't have a desktop experience/workflow on your iPad.

    We can't change that. You have made your feelings clear.

    It feels like you are investing a lot of energy in your disappointment. Maybe focus on figuring out how to make it work for you within its actual limits or move on.


    I’m not talking about ‘experience’ , I’m talking about audio performance which is far far worse on iPads. I haven’t seen a single video of what you call ‘CPU heavy’ project which could compare to what is normal for a laptop. It’s not even possible because iOS doesn’t seem to utilize multi core properly. Of course you could do it by recording and processing each track separately but it’s so lame compared to a laptop. Ipads are crap for music production, just because lazy Apple mangers haven’t time to create a proper environment for this.

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying? Could you elaborate?

    Lol

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited September 2019

    @vov said:

    @[Deleted User] said:

    @vov said:

    @[Deleted User] said:

    @vov said:
    Any actually, it’s not only me. Just look at this thread.
    [https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34746/ipados-13-

    Why are you referring to this thread! I told you to stop trolling me! The thread you reference is about ios13 beta and being able to run more au instances possibly. Not about how upset you are with your ipad.

    Just on the first page of your thread there were two comments about iPad Pros A12X bad performance. I stopped posting in your thread as you asked, so there’s no reason for you two get grumpy.

    Ill stop being grumpy when you stop moaning about your ipad.

    Get lost - troll,

    Haha good one, you are the one who is at every opportunity trying to change the conversation to how you are dissatisfied with you ipad!

  • vovvov

    @drez said:

    @vov said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov : if you spend some time learning different workflows, you can have a better experience.

    Many hear are getting good results and working with lots of tracks and CPU-heavy instruments and figuring out ways to make that work.

    As others have said: you can't have a desktop experience/workflow on your iPad.

    We can't change that. You have made your feelings clear.

    It feels like you are investing a lot of energy in your disappointment. Maybe focus on figuring out how to make it work for you within its actual limits or move on.


    I’m not talking about ‘experience’ , I’m talking about audio performance which is far far worse on iPads. I haven’t seen a single video of what you call ‘CPU heavy’ project which could compare to what is normal for a laptop. It’s not even possible because iOS doesn’t seem to utilize multi core properly. Of course you could do it by recording and processing each track separately but it’s so lame compared to a laptop. Ipads are crap for music production, just because lazy Apple mangers haven’t time to create a proper environment for this.

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying? Could you elaborate?

    IPads use only one core of their processor for all the audio processing most of the time.
    At least that’s what the developers here said. So their audio performance is very limited.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @vov said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov : if you spend some time learning different workflows, you can have a better experience.

    Many hear are getting good results and working with lots of tracks and CPU-heavy instruments and figuring out ways to make that work.

    As others have said: you can't have a desktop experience/workflow on your iPad.

    We can't change that. You have made your feelings clear.

    It feels like you are investing a lot of energy in your disappointment. Maybe focus on figuring out how to make it work for you within its actual limits or move on.


    I’m not talking about ‘experience’ , I’m talking about audio performance which is far far worse on iPads. I haven’t seen a single video of what you call ‘CPU heavy’ project which could compare to what is normal for a laptop. It’s not even possible because iOS doesn’t seem to utilize multi core properly. Of course you could do it by recording and processing each track separately but it’s so lame compared to a laptop. Ipads are crap for music production, just because lazy Apple mangers haven’t time to create a proper environment for this.

    You have made your point of view clear.

    Truth: Your iPad isn't a desktop. iOS is what it is.

    You've told us countless times how terrible it is. You don't need to keep telling us.

    Learn to make use of what it can do. If that isn't satisfactory then there is nothing we can offer you. A forum of iOS music enthusiasts is probably not the right place to come if you want people to agree that iPads are useless for making music.

  • brambosbrambos

    There are some misconceptions about the meaning of performance and what an ipad is for.

    An ipad is a mobile device. Both in terms of software and hardware architecture, it was designed to balance performance and battery life to maximize how long you can use it while sitting in the park or on the bus.

    This typically means peak-performance is given in short bursts only and aggressive throttling of the cpu is the norm. It will never perform in the same way as a desktop-grade computer, even though peak performance may indeed be higher than your core i7 you keep referring to.

    Furthermore, expecting an ipad to be an affordable alternative to a core i7 system would be strange. Apple’s value propositions have never been about being an affordable alternative to anything. If it has an apple logo, you can expect to pay a premium.

    If you need laptop-style performance, use a laptop. If you want to make music in an engaging new way, liberated from a desk, consider an ipad.

  • vovvov
    edited September 2019

    @espiegel123 said:

    @vov said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov : if you spend some time learning different workflows, you can have a better experience.

    Many hear are getting good results and working with lots of tracks and CPU-heavy instruments and figuring out ways to make that work.

    As others have said: you can't have a desktop experience/workflow on your iPad.

    We can't change that. You have made your feelings clear.

    It feels like you are investing a lot of energy in your disappointment. Maybe focus on figuring out how to make it work for you within its actual limits or move on.


    I’m not talking about ‘experience’ , I’m talking about audio performance which is far far worse on iPads. I haven’t seen a single video of what you call ‘CPU heavy’ project which could compare to what is normal for a laptop. It’s not even possible because iOS doesn’t seem to utilize multi core properly. Of course you could do it by recording and processing each track separately but it’s so lame compared to a laptop. Ipads are crap for music production, just because lazy Apple mangers haven’t time to create a proper environment for this.

    You have made your point of view clear.

    Truth: Your iPad isn't a desktop. iOS is what it is.

    You've told us countless times how terrible it is. You don't need to keep telling us.

    Learn to make use of what it can do. If that isn't satisfactory then there is nothing we can offer you. A forum of iOS music enthusiasts is probably not the right place to come if you want people to agree that iPads are useless for making music.

    Why do you think I post it personally for you?
    I know it’s not a desktop, but Apple doesn’t. They literally said it performs like a desktop. :D

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @espiegel123 said:

    @vov said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov : if you spend some time learning different workflows, you can have a better experience.

    Many hear are getting good results and working with lots of tracks and CPU-heavy instruments and figuring out ways to make that work.

    As others have said: you can't have a desktop experience/workflow on your iPad.

    We can't change that. You have made your feelings clear.

    It feels like you are investing a lot of energy in your disappointment. Maybe focus on figuring out how to make it work for you within its actual limits or move on.


    I’m not talking about ‘experience’ , I’m talking about audio performance which is far far worse on iPads. I haven’t seen a single video of what you call ‘CPU heavy’ project which could compare to what is normal for a laptop. It’s not even possible because iOS doesn’t seem to utilize multi core properly. Of course you could do it by recording and processing each track separately but it’s so lame compared to a laptop. Ipads are crap for music production, just because lazy Apple mangers haven’t time to create a proper environment for this.

    You have made your point of view clear.

    Truth: Your iPad isn't a desktop. iOS is what it is.

    You've told us countless times how terrible it is. You don't need to keep telling us.

    Learn to make use of what it can do. If that isn't satisfactory then there is nothing we can offer you. A forum of iOS music enthusiasts is probably not the right place to come if you want people to agree that iPads are useless for making music.

    Sob. He is right. I have been living a lie and will never enjoy making music on my ipad again.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @vov said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @vov said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov : if you spend some time learning different workflows, you can have a better experience.

    Many hear are getting good results and working with lots of tracks and CPU-heavy instruments and figuring out ways to make that work.

    As others have said: you can't have a desktop experience/workflow on your iPad.

    We can't change that. You have made your feelings clear.

    It feels like you are investing a lot of energy in your disappointment. Maybe focus on figuring out how to make it work for you within its actual limits or move on.


    I’m not talking about ‘experience’ , I’m talking about audio performance which is far far worse on iPads. I haven’t seen a single video of what you call ‘CPU heavy’ project which could compare to what is normal for a laptop. It’s not even possible because iOS doesn’t seem to utilize multi core properly. Of course you could do it by recording and processing each track separately but it’s so lame compared to a laptop. Ipads are crap for music production, just because lazy Apple mangers haven’t time to create a proper environment for this.

    You have made your point of view clear.

    Truth: Your iPad isn't a desktop. iOS is what it is.

    You've told us countless times how terrible it is. You don't need to keep telling us.

    Learn to make use of what it can do. If that isn't satisfactory then there is nothing we can offer you. A forum of iOS music enthusiasts is probably not the right place to come if you want people to agree that iPads are useless for making music.


    Why do you think I post it personally for you?

    I love you, you are truly epic.

  • vovvov
    edited September 2019

    @AudioGus said:
    Sob. He is right. I have been living a lie and will never enjoy making music on my ipad again.

    Now this is a thread about your joys of life. :D

  • OnfraySinOnfraySin

  • vovvov

    OnfraySin is just another troll. I never wrote any messages to him, or knew him, so this pic is meaningless.

  • drezdrez

    @espiegel123 said:

    A forum of iOS music enthusiasts is probably not the right place to come if you want people to agree that iPads are useless for making music.

    No more accurate statement about this thread has been said. Well done.

    @vov could you show us some examples of your own music that you have made on a desktop that is far superior to what you have been able to craft out of your iPad? You ask for proof and links throughout most of your threads so I figure we are entitled to the same request from you. Link us some of your “desktop” or “laptop” music so we can hear what you are unable to do on an iPad? You are saying that you have basically been robbed by apple because you are unable to do what it says on the box. I think it might be pertinent to show us what you’ve been capable of doing with all those threads?

    Because otherwise, maybe those threads were never the issue in the first place?

  • vovvov

    There’s a certain group of trolls which turns up whenever Apple is being criticized. :/

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @brambos said:
    There are some misconceptions about the meaning of performance and what an ipad is for.

    An ipad is a mobile device. Both in terms of software and hardware architecture, it was designed to balance performance and battery life to maximize how long you can use it while sitting in the park or on the bus.

    This typically means peak-performance is given in short bursts only and aggressive throttling of the cpu is the norm. It will never perform in the same way as a desktop-grade computer, even though peak performance may indeed be higher than your core i7 you keep referring to.

    Furthermore, expecting an ipad to be an affordable alternative to a core i7 system would be strange. Apple’s value propositions have never been about being an affordable alternative to anything. If it has an apple logo, you can expect to pay a premium.

    If you need laptop-style performance, use a laptop. If you want to make music in an engaging new way, liberated from a desk, consider an ipad.

    Sounds like it is too late for Vov to recieve this sober message of truth though and he is now left with a useless piece of slate he will never touch again that he should simply fedex me by tomorrow.

  • vovvov

    @vov said:
    There’s a certain group of trolls which turns up whenever Apple is being criticized. :/

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @vov: if you want help getting the most out of your iPad -- we are here to help you.

    So, if you want to figure out strategies within what iOS and your iPad can do, there are lots of folks that will be more than glad to provide insight and help.

    From various comments that you have made, a good place to start is using a DAW (or DAWLESS setup even) where you capture your CPU-synths as audio to free up the CPU. I use freezing and audio capture liberally. On a desktop machine you don't have to do that as often, but iPads are what they are.

    You can have lots of Moog and Odyssei and LayR tracks at once by capturing their audio rather than requiring the CPU to render them live.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov: if you want help getting the most out of your iPad -- we are here to help you.

    So, if you want to figure out strategies within what iOS and your iPad can do, there are lots of folks that will be more than glad to provide insight and help.

    From various comments that you have made, a good place to start is using a DAW (or DAWLESS setup even) where you capture your CPU-synths as audio to free up the CPU. I use freezing and audio capture liberally. On a desktop machine you don't have to do that as often, but iPads are what they are.

    You can have lots of Moog and Odyssei and LayR tracks at once by capturing their audio rather than requiring the CPU to render them live.

    Wtf, thats like nailing in your boards while you frame a house.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @AudioGus said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov: if you want help getting the most out of your iPad -- we are here to help you.

    So, if you want to figure out strategies within what iOS and your iPad can do, there are lots of folks that will be more than glad to provide insight and help.

    From various comments that you have made, a good place to start is using a DAW (or DAWLESS setup even) where you capture your CPU-synths as audio to free up the CPU. I use freezing and audio capture liberally. On a desktop machine you don't have to do that as often, but iPads are what they are.

    You can have lots of Moog and Odyssei and LayR tracks at once by capturing their audio rather than requiring the CPU to render them live.

    Wtf, thats like nailing in your boards while you frame a house.

    Btw, I also capture the MIDI if I think I might want to edit and refine later. But the MIDI doesn't need to be re-rendered as audio in realtime every time I play the track. But I cut my teeth before MIDI when we had no choice but commit to tape early.

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited September 2019

    @espiegel123 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @vov: if you want help getting the most out of your iPad -- we are here to help you.

    So, if you want to figure out strategies within what iOS and your iPad can do, there are lots of folks that will be more than glad to provide insight and help.

    From various comments that you have made, a good place to start is using a DAW (or DAWLESS setup even) where you capture your CPU-synths as audio to free up the CPU. I use freezing and audio capture liberally. On a desktop machine you don't have to do that as often, but iPads are what they are.

    You can have lots of Moog and Odyssei and LayR tracks at once by capturing their audio rather than requiring the CPU to render them live.

    Wtf, thats like nailing in your boards while you frame a house.

    Btw, I also capture the MIDI if I think I might want to edit and refine later. But the MIDI doesn't need to be re-rendered as audio in realtime every time I play the track. But I cut my teeth before MIDI when we had no choice but commit to tape early.

    Yah I do the same. I was just being a goof. Hoping to maybe overfeed the troll so it explodes like that guy with the mint in Monty Python.

  • hansjbshansjbs
    edited September 2019

    One day I hope to see everyone accepting iOS, iPad, iPhones for what they are and stop comparing them to desktop or laptops.

    I have a gen 2 pro 2017 and can use multiple AUV3, fx in BM3, Cubasis, Auria pro without issues.

    I see people making tons of great music with NS2, BM3, Cubasis etc...and using all types of Fx, AUV3 apps or just the internal stuff without issues even on a 2018 pro.

    Now of course there are some problematic apps but that doesn’t stop them and these people seem to enjoy themselves making music.

    Seems to me some rather complain a lot more than enjoying the fact that these days you can make a hit record while taking a dump.

  • dendydendy

    @hansjbs said:
    One day I hope to see everyone accepting iOS, iPad, iPhones for what they are and stop comparing them to desktop or laptops.

    I have a gen 2 pro 2017 and can use multiple AUV3, fx in BM3, Cubasis, Auria pro without issues.

    I see people making tons of great music with NS2, BM3, Cubasis etc...and using all types of Fx, AUV3 apps or just the internal stuff without issues even on a 2018 pro.

    Now of course there are some problematic apps but that doesn’t stop them and these people seem to enjoy themselves making music.

    Seems to me some rather complain a lot more than enjoying the fact that these days you can make a hit record while taking a dump.

    hans i know that you don't like me much :-) but i'm TOTALY with you regarding this ... what you wrote is true GOLD !

    I'm using iPhone/iPad for music since 2010, i abandoned completely desktop back then, never looked back, never did regret, made tons of music with iDevices

    iOS is great platform. Yes, apps do have weak sides, so ad hardware has also cons. Of course. Nothing is perfect but everyhing is evolvimg.

    Side note: My current iPad, priced €399, has better CPU performance than my old MacBook Pro mid 2010 (i7 cpu). I paid €2500 for it back then !

    That means something for me. At the moment i don't feel ANY limitations on iPad in except of my own creativity ...

  • JanosaxJanosax

    @richardyot said:

    @dendy said:
    yeah, single core performance of A12x is almost same like A12 - that's why 2018 pro models aren't worth to buy compared to 2019 AIR/Mini models, but both A12/A12x are significantly faster in single core operations than A10.

    Like I said in the other thread if I run Ravenscroft on my phone XR which uses an A12, I get instant crackles at all buffer sizes. But on my iPad 10.5 I can play with no crackles. Obviously that's a phone, not an iPad, but nonetheless I found it pretty surprising.

    It seems that A12 devices can have some issues. Ravenscroft and other AU works well with A10 iPhone 7 Plus. This is why new 10.2 iPad is interesting for music IMO.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    There might be issue with higher res screens and CPU usages. Does graphics take priority over audio. Maybe a dev can create a low res GUi to test reduction in CPU usage.

  • hansjbshansjbs

    @dendy said:

    @hansjbs said:
    One day I hope to see everyone accepting iOS, iPad, iPhones for what they are and stop comparing them to desktop or laptops.

    I have a gen 2 pro 2017 and can use multiple AUV3, fx in BM3, Cubasis, Auria pro without issues.

    I see people making tons of great music with NS2, BM3, Cubasis etc...and using all types of Fx, AUV3 apps or just the internal stuff without issues even on a 2018 pro.

    Now of course there are some problematic apps but that doesn’t stop them and these people seem to enjoy themselves making music.

    Seems to me some rather complain a lot more than enjoying the fact that these days you can make a hit record while taking a dump.

    hans i know that you don't like me much :-) but i'm TOTALY with you regarding this ... what you wrote is true GOLD !

    I'm using iPhone/iPad for music since 2010, i abandoned completely desktop back then, never looked back, never did regret, made tons of music with iDevices

    iOS is great platform. Yes, apps do have weak sides, so ad hardware has also cons. Of course. Nothing is perfect but everyhing is evolvimg.

    Side note: My current iPad, priced €399, has better CPU performance than my old MacBook Pro mid 2010 (i7 cpu). I paid €2500 for it back then !

    That means something for me. At the moment i don't feel ANY limitations on iPad in except of my own creativity ...

    Why would you say that 😂😂. We had disagreements but it was all forum stuff. I don’t know you to feel that way about you man. It’s all good with me. I always respect your opinions even if I don’t agree with the ones related to certain apps that’s all it was.

    I still have my studio but I use these pieces less and less. I think I can go all iPad but I love my MPC X and still have love for maschine but I’m not sure if I’m ready to let them go yet, maybe one day.

  • icsleepersicsleepers

    Regarding the desktop replacement thing, I think Apple is referring to the other 99% of consumers who maybe have a laptop they use for Netflix, social media, email, etc. I don’t think anyone would argue that if all someone uses a laptop for is email and browsing websites, then yea, an iPad is a desktop replacement... we are in the very incredible minority.

  • vovvov

    Everyone, guys, please stay on topic which is:
    If you know any music apps utilizing multi core audio processing - share.
    If you know why exactly it’s so hard to realize on iOS, is it processors’ architecture, iOS itself, or simply lack of knowhow for a relatively young system - please explain.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @vov said:
    Everyone, guys, please stay on topic which is:
    If you know any music apps utilizing multi core audio processing - share.
    If you know why exactly it’s so hard to realize on iOS, is it processors’ architecture, iOS itself, or simply lack of knowhow for a relatively young system - please explain.

    Unless you are a highly technical engineer you probably won’t get any better insight than the existing comments from Michael and Bram.

  • skratskrat

    I wouldn’t overestimate the effect of multi-core audio processing on overall performance. I remember the times when audio apps on desktop started adding multicore support and I was expecting some performance boost, but there was actually no noticeable effect - at least for Ableton Live which I was using at the time and had projects where I needed to compromise latency to avoid dropouts and multi-core support didn’t help it anyhow.
    Also I remember many people experiencing actually **better performance with multicore turned off. **
    I believe it got better nowadays, but that’s all boiling down to the optimization on the DAW / app side, not the OS itself. As far as I understand also from this discussion, there’s nothing really preventing you on iOS to do your calculations on separate threads, you only need to send the final result to the CoreAudio API, which live on th main thread (which is the same principle as on the desktop). But it’s a tricky business and currently probably no app developer wanted to invest so much time to experiment with this (and eventually breaking their app).
    The AUv3s may be a different beast - it’s very likely that here lies the current software limitation for multi-threading and this is something that Apple could optimise better. But still, as I originally said, don’t expect miracles, the separation of audio and everything else like GUI, memory and disk operations, background OS and other app services, etc... already does quite a lot.
    I have already seen many projects on iOS that used a lot of effects and synths I wouldn’t dream of just 5-7 years ago on desktop. To me it seems performance is not that big deal. You can’t compare it with pro grade performance oriented desktops, but it’s comparable to mid-level laptops. And many successful producers are using such machines and create music no worse than those with top-notch machines ;)

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