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Comments
I get the slave master thing, but surely the sequencer app that’s driving the arrangement should be the master of setting the clock and timeline position of the track, as it’ll be the one driving any time signature and tempo changes etc 🤷♂️
Because, for me at least, having the sequencer be the master for tempo and timeline position makes the most sense. That's were I'm setting up the patterns, trying out different tempos, etc.. That sequencer could be external too. You're also assuming only one device is involved. Increasingly that isn't the case.
AUM is in a supporting role as long as it doesn't have its own sequencer. Which is fine, but IMO it should act as such, which means it should be fully capable of following.
I more ask myself, "Why on earth does any app that has a timeline and syncs to midi clock not follow midi timeline?
"
(Sorry, I don't mean any of that to sound critical in any way. AUM is fabulous. We just have a missing piece in the puzzle of trying to put together a modular setup that includes MIDI and Audio without a central DAW. We can see how close we are, but this one issue is seemingly unsolvable at this point.)
Is there anything you can do @4Pockets to make multitrack follow the xequence timeline?
For that to happen, you'd have to use it as a standalone, and 4Pockets would need to add midi clock and time code slave to the standalone app. I think.
Right now the AU is dependent on host sync, and I don't think there's any way to send Clock/MTC to an AU plugin from an external source. It has to come from the host.
it would be nice to be wrong on this point though.
Umm, yeah, but...as lovely as that'd be, it would have to be better than everything else out there on hosting audio AU's, and that would still not solve the situation for people like myself who need to use the odd IAA app here and there. In all honesty, those feature additions should have a back-seat role to "making Xequence the most usable midi sequencer on iOS". We have plenty of audio hosts. We have very few great midi sequencers, and currently zero midi sequencers that can sync and play for longer than 40 odd bars.
Not meaning to put down your ideas for improvements and feature additions, but unless they indeed are best in class I would guess people would be hard pressed to leave AB/AUM/DAW's.
It actually reminds me of a video clip I frequently share at work (where we solve technical problems). It is only the first 1:36 of that video that I usually refer to, but somehow it feels like it applies here too.
Yeh, to be honest, it seems like the end result of that plan would be roughly the same as NS2 without Obsidian and Slate, but with audio tracks. That sounds like a tough road, considering NS2 will probably have audio tracks by then. It'd need some solid differentiation from the rest of the crowded pack of DAWs to get attention, I think.
Not to say @SevenSystems couldn't pull it off though!
It isn't that surprising that no audio apps follow sync as it is demanding CPU-wise and requires constant resampling. It surprises me that iOS MIDI sequencers don't sync to clock as it is simpler (though not simple) for a midi-only sequencer to slave.
That's not really what we're talking about here though. Nobody is asking for real time time stretching, only for following timeline. MultiTrack Recorder is a great example of something that would fill the need, if the host will follow MTC. AUM already follows sync. It already has a timeline. It just doesn't follow anything outside itself for that timeline.
The only missing piece of a modular "DAWless" setup right now is being able to arrange and trigger audio clips in a coordinated timeline.
If xequence was to follow AUMs timeline, would it still have a way of influencing it, eg changing tempo or time signature?
Unless you are only triggering events and letting sync drift, a DAW would have to time stretch to maintain sync as a slave otherwise things would be wonkie.
No. But I'm not interested in debating it. DAWs aren't the point of the discussion here. (Hence the thread title.)
Moot point. AUM doesn't send MTC anyway.
It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem... I guess EVERY sequencer "manufacturer" thinks that THEIR sequencer (or DAW) should be the "central hub", so EVERYONE only implements MASTER support for MIDI sync
@SevenSystems what would be the ramifications of X2 being a slave to the IAA host? Would you have to switch to AUM to pick a spot on the X2 timeline? That would be shit without some kind of split screen setup.
Oh no, I don’t doubt it can be done, it obviously can, given the already crowded DAW market.
I find it slightly ironic though, given the title of this thread, where Xequence is, for most people here, lauded as the saviour of DAW-less creation-process, and it is now clear it will remove itself from the equation of possible solutions by becoming, or re-creating, what people are trying to avoid, all whilst the market gap for a midi sequencer that can follow someone else’s sync is still there. We were so close!
I know what you mean but it sounds like we’ll still be able to be use it for what we want to use it for, just with audio tracks thrown into the mix.
I just worry that by the time it happens something else will have plugged the gap (maybe atom from within AB or AUM) and it’ll be another DAW by a one man band that’s unsustainable ( no offence @SevenSystems )
Aye, that is true. What we are talking about here would have to be a concerted effort between many developers/apps, the responsibility doesn’t fall on Xequence alone. Currently everyone recognizes it is a problem and that there is a need. Sadly right now everyone else is waiting for everyone else to take the first step, and the rest of us are confined to DAW’s that doesn’t necessarily fulfil the requirements we do have, but we have to make do with them anyways.
I would like to combine the amazing apps we already have. I have spent more money on apps that in theory could alleviate this situation compared to what I’ve spent on DAW’s (and that is coming from someone who has all the DAW’s, with all the plugins), and still we can’t make this happen. Just a pity I think.
There's no built-in or standard way for a plugin or IAA node app to control the tempo of their host, which is not surprising considering it would make a mess if more than one plugin tries to control the tempo.
Some ideas:
1) I could add tempo as a MIDI controllable parameter in AUM. The plugin could then send MIDI cc to control the tempo.
2) Perhaps Xequence could use Link only to control the tempo, but still sync to IAA host sync.
Yeah good point. What do you reckon @SevenSystems ?
Some way of controlling the timeline position in AUM is more important I would think though...
Xequence has no support for IAA at all currently, and particularly since IAA is being phased out by Apple, I don't think it would make a lot of sense adding support for it... sorry about that!
Oh yeah, forgot IAA is being phased out. There must be a sensible way for X2 (or any other app for that matter) to send timeline position to AUM or vice versa, but I’m out of suggestions.
Fortunately the crackles seem to have stopped today after my ipad has had a rest, so I should be able to finish my song without having to freeze anything!
Oh. I thought it was an IAA Generator.
Which then leads to the obvious question: could it be refactored to be an AU? Another app dev on this board (can't remember the thread or the app) said it was easier to re-factor to become AU than IAA, and I remember him being surprised at how it easy it was to create an AU out of his app (which of course could have had a much easier scope seeing as I can't recall which app it was).
I also do know there were discussions with regards of LayR, if it could become an AU (it was released as an IAA only). The argument against was two-fold: that it wasn't actually needed (as LayR could handle, and split, the separate instruments over the various midi channels, and you thus in theory could use it as 16 different sound sources) and secondly that it would be doubtful if any iPad could handle several instances of it anyways due to CPU limitations, and people would be upset if their 4th or 5th instance made things wobbly. The argument for was that "everyone has gotten hung up on that apps must be AU..."
Fast-forward a bit, LayR was indeed released as an AU (it is done in a great way too), people find it very useful/usable and the general synth market has turned in such a way that LayR today is quite resource friendly compared to many other newer synths; in short people have gotten used to that "with great power comes great responsibility", and that it most often isn't possible to launch too many multiples of the super synths out there.
Just saying, if there's a will there's most often a way.
@gregsmith yes, there is a sensible way -- it's called MIDI sync
Works between hardware AND software, is perfectly capable and has a stable and proven specification. There's really nothing that speaks against it. IF Xequence gets sync slaving at some point, it will almost definitely be MIDI sync 
(many call it "MIDI Clock" -- I prefer calling it "MIDI Sync" because clock is really just one part of it.)
@hellquist sorry, Xequence will likely never be an AU. It's a highly complex app with a lot of moving parts, and on large projects with lots of undo levels it can consume quite a bit of memory as well. It also really only works if it's fullscreen anyway. I don't think it's viable nor necessary to make it an AU. Sorry for being stubborn
Thanks for taking the time to comment on all this! It is really appreciated.
Tempo isn't the issue at all. That can be easily managed already in more than one way. What we need is for AUM to be able to follow timeline positioning. Adding the ability to follow Song Position Pointer (SPP) is all we're asking for here, I think.
(That is, in combination with Clock, Start, Continue, and Stop, which I think are all already supported? If not, then those too.)
General info for those who are curious about MIDI Clock and SPP:
I've never used it, but I see that AUM can receive MMC? So, in theory, if another app sent MIDI Machine Command messages, would AUM respond to song positioning in that way?
Just curios since I don't think there are enough apps that send MMC for that to be any help.
Great research Wim!🤗🙏☝️
OK, thanks. I shall stop pestering you about it. Just a work habit, trying to think outside the box, dreaming up viable (or not) pragmatic ideas to solve problems, then chosing the best of the various alternatives. Back to Auria for the currently foreseeable future it is. Though it is far from ideal, especially in the midi/pianoroll department, it also currently is the only DAW that comes the closest to fulfilling my requirements, which include IAA app hosting, being able to have different time signatures in the same tune etc.
Thanks for clarifying your plans regarding Xequence though. I wish you luck, and it has (together with NS2) the best pianoroll on iOS.
Thanks a lot
Yes, it's difficult to fulfill everyone's requirements and I have to focus on a particular roadmap and set of core features that can be maintained and extended... with the limited development resources (and also return on investment) available, dancing on too many parties could destroy the entire party altogether 
Your Xequence AU Keys and Pads apps are brilliant! Now Just give us a one track timeline/piano roll MIDI AU app with midi record and midi file import/export and we'll quit bugging you.
Speak for yourself! I won’t stop bugging @SevenSystems and @j_liljedahl until they sort this timeline thing out 😉