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Recording AUM faders for automation?
Hi all, I’m probably being a bit dense here, but given that you can assign MIDI channel and cc values to the faders and pans in AUM (I do ‘semi automated’ mixes using Rozetta LFOs to do the knob tweaking for me for this all the time) is there a simple way to iteratively record fader and pans for AUM sliders in a third party app inside AUM itself, to capture a more precise mix? I imagine doing several passes of the same piece, capturing fader and pan shifts on two or three channels at a time, being able to ‘overdub’ and tweak the faders and pots on each go round? Something like Photon or Atom, only just capturing/outputting the dynamic fader and pan changes? I’m trying to emulate the workflow Cubasis Automation offers without having to leave AUM & go into Cubasis to do it. If you have a method that does this, please break it down into bite sized chunks for this bear of little brain. Thanks!
Comments
Look on the forum for Xequence by @SevenSystems and it’s rec/automation capabilities
It’s all Midi so is expect a small impact / footprint on your set up and it’s one of the best sequencers around.
Other options include apps like
Ribn to record CCs which you can re-record over but I’d imagine that fine tuning would be harder since you can’t see the data linearly like in Xequence.
Xequence 2 is my preference for this, but means you would be switching out of AUM into another app to automate the CCs, so I'm guessing that's not what you want to do based on your post.
Photon AU does a good job of recording and playing back all midi passed through it. The interface and operation can be a bit difficult to get your head around, but if you stick to simple options, it can work well. You can't see or edit the cc data in this one, but it's captured, and there are some options for trimming loops, etc.
Good question, and one I'm interested to know the answer to, as well. From what I know from experimenting myself, the only way to do such automation would be to use an LFO (I tend to use midiLFOs, which I highly recommend, btw), but this doesn't really address the 'use case' (ugh, sorry for using that form of wording) you indicate. The ideal situation would be for Atom (or a new equivalent app) to enable us to do this task, but, alas, it doesn't do that - yet, at least. For me, it means I use LFOs to introduce semi-randomness and 'interest' in a piece of music, but it also means that I have to do fading stuff 'on-the-fly', as it were, and this obviously isn't ideal. But maybe someone knows a workable way to do this stuff? I don't, sadly.
Hm. Thanks @audio_DT for sharing my pain
, and @wim for the good suggestion re Xequence 2. I do have it, but I think using it for that might be taking me too far away from the spontaneity I’m after, as you note. @audiblevideo , though: ribn sounds interesting. I note no Audiobus or AU but it sounds like I should be able to route it externally into AUM and it sounds very much like what I’m after. I’ll risk £4 to find out. Thanks. 
Photon is AU and can do what you want, but may be hard to get your head around.
If AUM had a simple midi looper node built in you could have fader automation. Its the one thing AUM really needs
Ribn sounds good - but I haven't bought due to it not having Abelton Link - which would make it much better
@[Deleted User] : yup, I discussed it with @Kymátika directly, and he is totally adamant that he is not going to do it, as he feels it amounts to feature bloat. A great shame, in my opinion, because AUM is what has made iOS music work for me, I live in there, and it seems that this would be a highly specific and worthwhile extension of the AUM workflow, but, hey, he’s the boss I guess
I think ribn is like a looper so the fader would follow the same motion over repeatedly?
Yeah, he mentions AU’s performing that function but unfortunately they never work correctly. It would make AUM a serious app that many more musicians would consider using an ipad for.
Yes it “loops” but you can automate over a very long period of time.
Xequence is really your best bet.
Or maybe a combo.
Control using general midi surface inside AUM but record into Xequence
Like I said there are many threads and topics about Xequence on this forum and a pretty damn good manual
Yeah, i dont like xequence
Sorry to hear it. This is such a need in aum.
Fingers crossed for Atom update including MIDI CC for achieving this and lots of other MIDI automations.
I suppose it still might be a slightly clunky workflow to use multiple instances for automating several different mixer/AU/etc elements in a longer or more complex piece, but it would be really flexible/powerful.
)
(ala the whole iOS DAW-less experience more or less
I strongly dislike the whole DAW less moniker.
I'd propose Temporal/Live Performing, Live Mixing, or the like.
Yeah sorry I don’t disagree and I could edit it but I went with the common term in the end with a sarcastic emoji to soften it.
“Non-linear fucking around” feels too strong/pejorative
I wonder why midi recording and looping playback is feature bloat when audio recording and playback isn't. He seems like a very logical guy, but I fail to see the logic in that particular line of reasoning. Oh well.
I wonder why we have so many audio loopers, but trying to get a similar thing for midi is so difficult. I mean, we have one utterly brilliant midi developer who is completely uninterested in doing a looper plugin. We have new audio loopers coming out our ears, but virtually nothin' for midi other than DAWs. We got one guy that made a looper then seems to have completely lost interest in it.
sigh.
CC recording in Atom should be pretty nifty though : mixing shorter clips for AU automation and longer clips for mixer mutes/fades/AU stuff... some amazing possibilities I would say.
The rest is semantics
Because even “simple” MIDI recording has lots of baggage with it and even more baggage if you have to provide an editor/ui WAY more involved than the simple audio recording and playback capabilities which particularly since AUM was from the get go an audio app for mixing audio data. Adding MIDI capture and edit is a whole other dimension. Hopefully, either Atom or Photon will get some more tweaks and supply what’s missing.
There we go again with the disconnect. Does AUM provide an audio editor? A simple recorder and looper (like AUM has for audio) is all that is needed. Why the different criteria for Audio vs. MIDI? AUM is stuffed full of MIDI processing coding already. How additionally hard could it be to capture and loop it?
Sorry, I usually follow your logic. Not this time.
Maybe it is hard to describe what you are finding as a disconnect? Sorry that I wasn't able to articulate it better. Let me try one more time. While AUM can receive MIDI and respond to it, recording streams of MIDI data and playing them back and editing them really are a whole other thing from just recording audio files. An audio file is more or less playing one "thing". AUM doesn't have any sequencing of audio events. And all of that audio processing code (and file recording and playback) is all pretty related to most of the apps in his suite. Lots of code to crib from. And the audio recording and playback is basic.
AUM responds to MIDI but that is different from capturing the MIDI and letting users do something useful with it. I think he recognizes that if it can record MIDI but not edit it, there will be endless complaints about how ALL that he has to do is add a simple piano roll.
I have been in those weeds and I agree with his assessment. AUM does what it does really well. And, to me, capturing the audio is a nice extra that also probably was pretty simple to implement since he has already written audio capture and playback elsewhere.
Both Atom and Photon are so close to being what's needed--hopefully those devs will close the gap.
Totally disagree on several points. But don’t care about the subject enough to continue. It’s his choice.
Hi, @espiegel123 , @wim , I’m a completely non technical user not a programmer, so the technicalities are beyond me. @Kymátika made exactly @espiegel123 ’s point about ‘all you need is a piano roll, and then you have a DAW’ being what he didn’t want, but I’m with @wim ideologically. All I want is an exact parallel to the AUM audio file player, a simple, non detailed record/write/overdub live record button for fader and pan motion, and if I want/need to do any detail editing of the resulting stream, then I take it elsewhere into another app. I use file player all the time, and take its’ product out into Cubasis (now perhaps 4pockets Multitrack), AudioShare, Hokusai etc if I want to do anything with it. That’s all.
If that is what you want, Photon AU has you covered.
Just out of curiousity: is @Kymátika another account of @j_liljedahl ?
I know Jonatans company is called Kymatica (with a "c") and I know he posts/responds to @j_liljedahl (sorry for being pinged a couple of times here) but I have never seen it spelt Kymatika (with a second "k") previously, and that account seems to have only 3 comments (from 2013 and 2015), which doesn't sound much like Jonatans regular posts.
Completely disagree with this.
It doesnt work right and has bugs.
Yep simple record/playback and overdub. Keep it to 32 bars max, 4 bars would be functional. I dont even need to see a display just the node armed. No need for a editor GUI. Same with the audio looper. The data could be routed or exported out for editing.
I can totally see the usp of AUM why he doesn’t want to include it, it would be like writing another app to maintain, but no reason why he couldn’t release his own separate AU midi looper and it then use the same file space as AUM.
There’s loads of refinements AUM can get to make it optimal as a host, but some things are best suited to Audio units. It would be the kind of thing which would need a lot of work/maintenance and then might end up getting superceded by another AU midi looper in the future and become redundant. I rarely use the File player these days, preferring other AU but used it at the beginning.
I think this is probaby why Alessandro doesn't include it in apeMatrix AUs as well, but maybe he'd be more keen to incorporate something?