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Lyric strategies

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Comments

  • @u0421793 said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @u0421793 said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @u0421793 said:

    … Did you see the Coursera link to the free songwriting class mate? :)

    Are you going to sign up for it and do it? Anyone else here thinking of? What if a bunch of us did, we could group together (if there’s any group exercises, there often are for coursera courses, though this might not benefit from it).

    I’m not going to sign up, because I already did yesterday after finding it. ;) I can stand to learn new methods and tricks I may not know yet. I’m hoping more here will be on board too. Should be fun! :smiley:

    I signed up this morning...opted out of the assesments so as to get the course free.

    Same here, I’m in too. I’ve done Coursera courses before, some fairly naff and one was very good (the gamification one I did a few years ago). The problem with a lot of them is that they’re peer marked and there’s a bit of a tendency on some of the courses I did to review and mark everything else you see highly positively, as you know everyone else will be doing the same to you. You had to mark at least five others each time, for your mark to be counted and to progress.

    The course is open now by the way. (Just noticed the email notification this morning, lol.)

  • I use folders in the Ulysses app to categorize/collect words and phrases I like. When I am ready to work on something I go through my previous notes and combine things I like.

  • edited March 2018

    My process is organic. I hear a beat which translates to a seed in my brain. The emotion it inspires is the soil or ground that I use as foundation to build the rest of the environment that my lyrics will occupy and it grows from there.

    As far as Hip Hop, I can finish a song without much thought. If the beat is great I can write a complex story, introspective piece or a mindless catchy hook easier and quicker than I typed this comment. If I can’t the beat/music isn’t right so just move on.

    For RnB, Pop, Inspirational projects...I may need to sit with artists/producers for awhile to know them and what they are trying to express.

    As with anything, you can learn and improve upon proven techniques. Writing classes online or in person help but the rest is intuition, feel or talent. In my opinion that is.

    Living a life full of experiences, memories and people worth describing is the best Write-Aid you can have.

  • Save overheard phrases from television, surroundings, etc...and phrases I read. Print them out. Cut up into phrases (not words), pick, choose, lather, rinse, repeat...

  • @u0421793 said:
    What methodologies do you use for your lyric writing?

    >

    It’s all about telling stories, for me. Sometimes those stories preceded the music, other times the music triggers off moods and images. There are always far more words than tune, which get pared down as the process unfolds.

    The stories fall into two categories. Those that are based on something true, and those that are fictional. On the first RTM album, Artificial Music For Artificial Times, we have a song called ‘Life’s Hand Grenade’ which was a real story about losing a parent to terminal illness and emerging from that situation to find lasting love. Whereas, on the third album, now in production, there’s a song called ‘Valerian’ which is about a fictional singer in a novel by Andrew Cartmel.

    The other kind of songs we do are those with a political or social point to make. Most are observational, and do not support any particular ideology. Rather, they ask questions and seek to promote thought.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @u0421793 said:
    What methodologies do you use for your lyric writing?

    >

    It’s all about telling stories, for me. Sometimes those stories preceded the music, other times the music triggers off moods and images. There are always far more words than tune, which get pared down as the process unfolds.

    The stories fall into two categories. Those that are based on something true, and those that are fictional. On the first RTM album, Artificial Music For Artificial Times, we have a song called ‘Life’s Hand Grenade’ which was a real story about losing a parent to terminal illness and emerging from that situation to find lasting love. Whereas, on the third album, now in production, there’s a song called ‘Valerian’ which is about a fictional singer in a novel by Andrew Cartmel.

    The other kind of songs we do are those with a political or social point to make. Most are observational, and do not support any particular ideology. Rather, they ask questions and seek to promote thought.

    That’s quite interesting. The dichotomy between ‘the truth’ and ‘the fictional’ (you can’t Handel, Ruth). With me it is a split between explaining what is (or was), and explaining what should be / want to be. The polarisation for me is across time - I’m either going over something that has already been set in stone and lamenting or celebrating it, or I’m proposing that this should be or that should change or we should do xyz instead.

  • Determine the topic first. Then write down any words you can imagine when listening to the tune. Also, go to search for some similar tracks and take the lyrics as a reference. I used to download my favorite tracks from Spotify via my Spotify music converter and extract the lyrics from it. Then listen to them over and over to get a new inspiration.

  • I think a really key thing is to have some ambiguity about meanings. Listen to tons of great songs, David Bowie for example, or even some early stuff by The Strokes. Things never make total sense, so when you listen, there is a possible fresh meaning each time. Also not stating things too directly. Using imagery etc to suggest meanings instead of saying directly what you want to say. As for inspiration, I’ve often got that from a poem or something I read. Take an image or line from the poem and use that as a starting point to develop your own themes. I also never usually had much success writing lyrics before I had an idea for a melody etc. Usually the melody and the rhythm helps to suggest the words, because they put constraints there in terms of syllables and word stress etc

  • I usually have music already made and then line by line sort of free write lyrics as I go along to the end. Once I do that, I refine things and tweak words here and there, look for themes and maybe find the story and make further adjustments until everything flows and I’m satisfied with how it sounds. My lyrics tend to be more rhythmic than melodic though

  • I was always very impressed with lyrics of The Fall, and luckily we have the Mark E Smith guide to writing guide that explains his approach:

    (There is one thing that he apparently did, which was to write something relatively clear and straightforward with a story maybe, wordplay and so forth; and then rewrite this repeatedly, mixing up verses, adding digressions, remixing those, until the result didn't really make sense anymore, but sounded like it ought to make some kind of sense, if one just were to figure out the allusions and metaphors, so you have to listen and think about it. So an early version of "your heart out" starts with

    Just take for instance
    A time of great depression
    No bells are ringing
    Just start singing

    Your heart out

    with each verse leading in to a chorus where "your heart out" matches the verse The final version however starts with

    Just take for instance
    A time of great depression
    Fade out of reason
    That time's in season

    Don't shut your heart out

    and no verse leads directly to a "your heart out" response in the chorus.

    Much discussion in room C-H-1-O-2-H-11:
    http://annotatedfall.doomby.com/pages/the-annotated-lyrics/your-heart-out.html )

  • Yes, The Fall had some great tracks. Bill is Dead would be a standout for me both lyrically and melodically.

  • edited March 2020

    @u0421793 said:

    @Norbert said:
    The more 'on-demand' way has me concerned here. Are we talking about marketing or art? If we are talking marketing, the 'on-demand' way would be the one which sells the most at the moment I guess. If we are talking art on the other hand, the best way to do it is by doing things people have not done before. An artist is a discoverer of new ways and new ideas, an experimentator of ideas and feelings. And thus, strategy isn't relevant unless it is one which has never been created before.

    Well, ‘on demand’ could translate as ‘professional’. If you were a painter of pictures, you could either do it as and when the muse occurs, and not produce a picture when you’re not in the mood, because it won’t be good. If you had commissions coming in and you put food on the table from these commissions, you’d have to be ‘in the mood’ all the bloody time, or you’d end up broke! Same with photography – when I was a professional photographer, I’d point out to people who admired my photography and thought they could never be that good that the difference between a pro and an amateur is that an amateur might keep a roll of film in their camera all year and take an occasional snap. I’d shoot through about three or four rolls of film to pick one or maybe two shots of a situation or event of a topic I was shooting. I throw away all the crap shots first, then from the good ones, select out the best, then hand over the selection to my editor who picks the one to publish in the article. An amateur just takes the one!

    Any creative process is pretty much a candidate for becoming a factory conveyor belt process if you can get it repeatable and reliable enough. Good at making cakes, or just doing the icing of the cake, or just doing the words in the icing of the cake? You could be doing it all day professionally, over and over and over. You’d get super-efficient, and your failure rate would drop dramatically – even on your “off days”. You’d adopt a strategy to make it so. That’s what I mean as ‘on-demand’. Repeatable and professional.

    I was gonna try to follow this thread through and provide input, but this post right here is the reality and truth of the matter, even if not the original intent of the thread. Being a professional in something means you can repeat a task required of your field on demand with very low variance in quality.

    Sorry to diss the poster directly below that, but that art crap is for the birds. I truly believe that anybody who wants to maximize their skill at writing songs (note I didn't say 'make money', though it does apply as well) should develop their own way to be able to do it in a professional manner as described above. There is no such thing as writer's block; there's only a lack of discipline or a lack of whiskey (and I don't mean the latter in a positive way as in you should go buy a fifth to help you when you're stumped...I mean don't blame your dependency on 'writer's block').

    Just look at the 2 people I consider the biggest and best songwriters of our time, Bob Dylan and Prince, and consider their immense volume of output. The odds are much less you're gonna get a 'Little Red Corvette' if you can't crank out an 'After Hi School' on the regular.

  • Avoid filtering. Write down the first thing that comes to your mind, don't reject anything as being not good enough. Revise later.

  • Think about big booty hoes and talk about jewellery, fast cars and haters. Guaranteed top quality lyrics

  • Sometimes I think that very few people take their lyrics seriously at all and often a good groove allows them to sing just about anything. And there's a inverse that labors over lyrics and has very little to contribute musically.

    Sometimes you can take ideas from other media and cultures and use the a conversion it into song
    taking great liberties with the source material... change dozens of specific facts. You could even just want the evening news and get something to trigger telling a story, making a point or using some vocabulary
    used for the weather report. I used to flip open a book of well rated short stories and read until something struck me as useful. Anything to trigger the mind into gear for invention or even just an idea that allows for a good rhythm alliteration. How does a word sound: Kicked, soothed, savage...

    Kick the Savage Brute
    Sooth the Ailing Victim
    Stash the Pirates Loot
    Craft the Victor's Dictum

    Sentences that are fun to say outloud (hard consonants or soft caresses) are also great to sing and inspire a musical mood.

  • I have just started writing lyrics again after a forty year hiatus. You may have heard my collab with @JanKun and @Daveypoo, The Sweetest Sound. I used to write structured lyrics and often struggled when the muse wasn’t there. Now I am writing lyrics to improvised tracks that lack traditional song structure (thank goodness). Will and faith are the most important ingredients for me. The will to attempt to bring something out of nothing and the faith it will get there in the end.

    As befits a linear guy I write straight ahead, one phrase at a time. Something I didn’t have in 1980 was Cubasis. It is invaluable with my new strategy. I write the lyrics in the notepad and adjust the left locator as I advance thru the song, so I don’t have to repeat from the beginning every time. I have a general idea, but always search for a twist. Some surprise ending, some unusual word, description or wordplay. What I have written before fuels what is to come. Rhyming lines comes and goes. It adds something, but not rhyming adds something, too.

    I was a playwright once upon a time. Creating dramatic tension and a compelling narrative are what I strive for, tho I am just doing These days, not striving. I have no thoughts of any tangible result, like more than a handful listening. No mainstreaming here. Art music, I guess. I doubt my method will help anybody, but maybe that’s the point. Be yourself. Exert your will. Have faith it will work our in surprising and satisfying ways. The actual method is secondary, IMO.

  • Someone reccomended 2 books which had a lot of value. I'm still halfway on one but it already helped my writing skills immensely. Seriously, do the exercise.

    1. Writing better lyrics by Pat Pattison
    2. Murphy's Laws of Songwriting by Ralph Murphy
  • edited March 2020

    From Dory Previn, Bog-Trotter (1980):

    Sometimes I sang in saloons. But my voice wasn't very good. So I figured if I did special material, the audience would be caught up in the song and not notice the unspecial voice. I couldn't afford to pay a professional. And set out to write myself an act. It was comprised of second and third choruses to all my favourite songs. Later I taught myself to write original lyrics by the same method. I imitated Cole Porter, Lorenz Hart, Oscar Hammerstein, Johnny Burke, Irving Berlin. From their work I learned construction until I could develop my own style. At that time there was no place to go to learn the craft of song-writing. Even today there are few opportunities available. When I lecture in song-writing courses, I suggest to aspiring writers they follow that example. There are no better teachers than those men.

  • Wotja includes a cut-up editor specifically designed for lyric generation, fully functional in the free version, though it's better for title generation than full lyrics. I ignored it for years till I fed it a Christmas menu and it spat out Roast Holly, Mulled Reindeer, and (for the ultra-discerning palate) Gingerbread Gingerbread.

  • For those wishing to study significant successful lyrics from the past, I can only highly recommend this twitter thread. I recommend it. All of it. All.

  • @u0421793 top quality, thanks 🤣

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