Making 'full' tunes on an iDevice... (Too long) thoughts and ramblings

Bill_Brasky · April 2020

@echoopera said:
I’m all about Drambo these days. Using it within AUM has been liberating. I can use it how i see fit and just enjoy the process of creating.
I come from an Ableton+Push2 background so the notion of a step sequencer based workflow is totally familiar to me.

So far Drambo is very CPU efficient and since i can live in AUM and sequence i can go routing crazy to my hearts content.

Having multiple instances of Drambo playing and sequencing is composing on a whole new level for me. I feel like i have 5 OctaTracks at my disposal now. 🤯

What app is in the effect slot? I recognize the REAMP but not the other.

Gavinski · April 2020

@Bill_Brasky said:

What app is in the effect slot? I recognize the REAMP but not the other.

It's Panstation 2

echoopera · April 2020

What he said 😬

LinearLineman · April 2020

Hey @klownshed, good to hear from you and I liked how your track developed. I guess I am a real outlier here as I never produced music on desktop. Two years with Cubasis and it still satisfies. I guess I don’t know what I am missing. Ignorance is bliss 189 tracks later!

onerez · April 2020

@anickt said:

@AudioGus said:
I don’t know why I am waiting for NS2 to get audio tracks and AUfx automation before using it again. Even in it’s current form it seems to have been one of the easiest and flowiest musical experiences I have had with some of the best near-complete results I have had on iOS... yet I wait.

Zenbeats is very similar to NS2 with audio tracks and AUfx automation.

Wait you talking about Roland ZenBeats????

ChancedMusic · April 2020

My most recent track completed entirely on my iPhone. I have two others on my SoundCloud there that were also done on my phone.

jwmmakerofmusic · April 2020

When it came to finding an FL Studio replacement on the iPad (I mean actually FL Studio, not FLSM), nothing came closer than NS2 despite its lack of audio tracks. (Then again, when I first started using FL Studio back in (I think) 2003, it didn't have audio clips yet, AND unlike NS2, FL Studio in 2003 used the clunky lego blocks to sequence midi clips. Good times.)

Of course using third-party plugins on an Air 2 is going to be sketchy at best in any DAW as far as I know. And I agree, NS2 on an iPhone 11 is a match made in heaven for music creation on the go when you don't feel like dragging along an iPad.

NS2 is the one app I can truly say with confidence I've finished more tracks in than anything else on iOS combined (including Gadget). I've been dabbling with various genres (from EDM like Bass House and Trance to Ambient and also Musique Concrete). And, I also remixed a track for a popular 90s Dance Music artist for his upcoming single in an Uplifting Vocal Trance style that'll be released very soon. (He has no idea it was 100% produced on an iPad Mini in a DAW with no audio tracks, lol.)

A lot of my stuff from NS2 can be heard on my Soundcloud. (From "Sunrizer Challenge" to "Logical" being the best stuff I did last year.)

https://soundcloud.com/jwmmakerofmusic

And some stuff from Facebook.

Sash! - S4! Sash (JWM Remix) (Trance)
https://www.facebook.com/100000993944035/posts/2324762387566870/

JWM - San Juanito (Ecuadorian flute music)
https://www.facebook.com/100000993944035/posts/2272913309418445/

Sash! - Habibi (JWM Remix) (Some sort of hardstyle, lol)
https://www.facebook.com/100000993944035/posts/2266300120079764/

Cheers.

BitterGums · April 2020

One thing I find important to battle or pay attention to with iOS music production is the risk of it sounding too 'in the box'. Desktop has overcome this hurdle in the last decade and it's really become a non-issue. But it's something to strive to work extra hard on with iOS.

..not sure where the weak point is exactly ..if it's something like sample rate during tracking or not having audio tracks in some apps to add real world ambience or if it's in the production/mastering stage (?) etc. hard to say.. each session will require different tools as well.

Krupa · April 2020

@anickt said:

@Krupa said:
@anickt have you just been using linear from the start or have you figured out the loop > linear workflow? - I saw something written somewhere about recording clips over to the timeline but can’t find it anywhere now...

When I first started I didn’t realize there were two modes. 😆 My preference is linear and that’s what I’ve been using.

Linear is all I really know too but saw this feature in there and thought that it’s time I caught up with all those ableton youths and now quite like triggering chord changes like that. Think you can get them over to the linear by copypasting but seems a bit daft not to just record it somehow...

Ta

klownshed · April 2020

@LinearLineman said:
Hey @klownshed, good to hear from you and I liked how your track developed. I guess I am a real outlier here as I never produced music on desktop. Two years with Cubasis and it still satisfies. I guess I don’t know what I am missing. Ignorance is bliss 189 tracks later!

:-)

It’s all good. You just need the right tool for the job. It’s great that you’ve found the right tool for you.

I have actually made quite a few 'full' tracks on iPad, using GarageBand. GarageBand continues to work well for me and is the perfect halfway-house to import into Logic.

With NS2, though, this is roughly what happens when trying to make a song:

Start making a tune in NS2.
Get to the point that it's coming along nicely.
CPU meter is low, performance is great, no issues.
OK, time to work on another section of the tune... maybe add a bridge...
Save this project and start work on a copy...

... NS2 spins away ...

OK. NS2 has completely locked up.

Restart iPad.

Load NS2 again.

Same project autoloads.

Save as...

... NS2 spins away ...

And repeat ad nauseam.

Ok then, lets try and get the audio out of NS2.

... NS2 locks up...

Same vicious cycle.

Right, see if you can delete tracks and plug-ins and save the project's MIDI

... NS2 locks up...

ARGH! The only way out of this is to either delete NS2 and give up or start deleting the plug-ins from the iPad one by one until NS2 works again.

... In the meantime NS2 locks up again and again and again ...

Then once all the plug-ins have gone it all works fine again and I can export and save as much as I like.

At that point I can export some of the audio without any third party fx or instruments.

I can now load the audio into GarageBand, reapply the fx that broke NS2 and it works fine. finish the track in GB or Logic... Bob's your auntie.

This whole shit show happened more than once. It was probably a combination of plug-ins, but not exclusively Audio Damage although they are basically incompatible with NS2.

I made started this thread to just say, as bad as my experience in NS2 on iPad has been (and it's been frankly appalling) the opposite is true for me using NS2 on my iPhone. Bearing in mind that my first computer was a VIC-20 with 5K RAM. (yes, K!). I'm still frankly astonished about the power that is in my phone. Being able to make a song on my phone still feels like science fiction!

I will still continue to use Logic and don't intend to switch away from it any time soon. But NS2 issues on iPad apart, I'm having fun making horrible noises on iDevices anyway. That's all that matters for me.

I like hearing about how people use the tools on iOS. It's not a competition though.

richardyot · April 2020

@klownshed said:
I made started this thread to just say, as bad as my experience in NS2 on iPad has been (and it's been frankly appalling) the opposite is true for me using NS2 on my iPhone.

The issue is not NS2 on an iPad vs NS2 on a phone, it's clearly because your phone is much more powerful than your iPad. You're comparing a 2019 phone with a 2015 iPad.

I used NS2 on an iPad Air 2 for roughly a month before upgrading to a 10.5 Pro. The difference is night and day, exactly comparable to your experience going from the Air 2 to the iPhone 11.

klownshed · April 2020

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:
I made started this thread to just say, as bad as my experience in NS2 on iPad has been (and it's been frankly appalling) the opposite is true for me using NS2 on my iPhone.

The issue is not NS2 on an iPad vs NS2 on a phone, it's clearly because your phone is much more powerful than your iPad. You're comparing a 2019 phone with a 2015 iPad.

Of course! I know that! That was the whole point of this thread!

That’s why I said this in the original post;

One reason for this is that it's just so much more powerful than my ageing iPad Air 2. I'm sure I'd have very different experiences on a more modern iPad.

I don’t think I could make that any clearer?

Regardless of that, The whole point of the post was to talk about my experience of Ns2 on my iPad compared to my experience of NS2 on my iPhone.

Despite the power differences though, it still should have been easier on the iPad just for the much bigger screen. And it would have been if there wasn’t a serious compatibility/reliability issue with NS2 and various auv3 plug ins. I wasn’t running into CPU issues during playback, the iPad played back the track just fine. It just hung up whenever I tried to do anything file related with it.

The much newer, more powerful and more blessed with Ram Phone has no such issues.

I am not talking about anybody else’s experiences. Or assuming anybody else is having the same experience.

I used NS2 on an iPad Air 2 for roughly a month before upgrading to a 10.5 Pro. The difference is night and day, exactly comparable to your experience going from the Air 2 to the iPhone 11.

I wouldn’t expect anything less.

richardyot · April 2020

@klownshed said:
Regardless of that, The whole point of the post was to talk about my experience of Ns2 on my iPad compared to my experience of NS2 on my iPhone.

It's all good But if you are going to post about your experiences on a public forum, it's not unusual for people to reply with their own experiences. It's just a conversation, if you don't want people to reply, don't start the conversation...

klownshed · April 2020

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:
Regardless of that, The whole point of the post was to talk about my experience of Ns2 on my iPad compared to my experience of NS2 on my iPhone.

It's all good But if you are going to post about your experiences on a public forum, it's not unusual for people to reply with their own experiences. It's just a conversation, if you don't want people to reply, don't start the conversation...

Of course. I want a conversation. But you called me out for comparing an old iPad with a new iPhone.

Of course I did. That was the whole point.

It doesn’t matter.

Perhaps I should just take your advice and not start any more threads.

richardyot · April 2020

@klownshed said:

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:
Regardless of that, The whole point of the post was to talk about my experience of Ns2 on my iPad compared to my experience of NS2 on my iPhone.

It's all good But if you are going to post about your experiences on a public forum, it's not unusual for people to reply with their own experiences. It's just a conversation, if you don't want people to reply, don't start the conversation...

Of course. I want a conversation. But you called me out for comparing an old iPad with a new iPhone.

Of course I did. That was the whole point.

It doesn’t matter. I think not starting a conversation is good advice.

I’ll try not to start any others.

I didn't call you out, I think maybe you're seeing hostility where there was none. ☮

klownshed · April 2020

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:
Regardless of that, The whole point of the post was to talk about my experience of Ns2 on my iPad compared to my experience of NS2 on my iPhone.

It's all good But if you are going to post about your experiences on a public forum, it's not unusual for people to reply with their own experiences. It's just a conversation, if you don't want people to reply, don't start the conversation...

Of course. I want a conversation. But you called me out for comparing an old iPad with a new iPhone.

Of course I did. That was the whole point.

It doesn’t matter. I think not starting a conversation is good advice.

I’ll try not to start any others.

I didn't call you out, I think maybe you're seeing hostility where there was none. ☮

Very probably.

Unfortunately I’m also seeing hostility where it is intended too. Sorry if I tarred you with the same brush.

As I’m Obviously not managing to come here without attracting, or misplacing my own, hostility it is probably best if I bugger off for a while. Or longer.

richardyot · April 2020

@klownshed said:

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:
Regardless of that, The whole point of the post was to talk about my experience of Ns2 on my iPad compared to my experience of NS2 on my iPhone.

It's all good But if you are going to post about your experiences on a public forum, it's not unusual for people to reply with their own experiences. It's just a conversation, if you don't want people to reply, don't start the conversation...

Of course. I want a conversation. But you called me out for comparing an old iPad with a new iPhone.

Of course I did. That was the whole point.

It doesn’t matter. I think not starting a conversation is good advice.

I’ll try not to start any others.

I didn't call you out, I think maybe you're seeing hostility where there was none. ☮

Very probably.

Unfortunately I’m also seeing hostility where it is intended too. Sorry if I tarred you with the same brush.

As I’m Obviously not managing to come here without attracting, or misplacing my own, hostility it is probably best if I bugger off for a while. Or longer.

There's no need to bugger off It's the internet, sometimes wires get crossed. I just read back through the thread, I really don't think anyone is being hostile.

iammane · April 2020

On the bright side, NS2 is one of the few apps that's as enjoyable to me to use on the phone screen as the iPad (imo, ymmv, etc). It just feels good. I've been spending more time in it lately and I am very much enjoying both the process and results. I avoided it for awhile due to no audio tracks, but I'm finding the workarounds are more than passable for now. My weapon of choice on the desktop is Reason, and bar none (imo, ymmv), the sequencer is the absolute closest I get to replicating that experience (multiple track lanes for things like automation clips, alternating melodies or adding in flourishes, etc). So it's going well

I hope things are going ok, I've got young kids too but I'm fortunate in that my wife is also home. I do have the same time issues you're up against though, it's work work work and then I close the laptop and it's full dad mode. So trying to balance finding music time, being a husband and dad has been quite trying. I'm certain you're in good company my friend

klownshed · April 2020

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:

@richardyot said:

@klownshed said:
Regardless of that, The whole point of the post was to talk about my experience of Ns2 on my iPad compared to my experience of NS2 on my iPhone.

It's all good But if you are going to post about your experiences on a public forum, it's not unusual for people to reply with their own experiences. It's just a conversation, if you don't want people to reply, don't start the conversation...

Of course. I want a conversation. But you called me out for comparing an old iPad with a new iPhone.

Of course I did. That was the whole point.

It doesn’t matter. I think not starting a conversation is good advice.

I’ll try not to start any others.

I didn't call you out, I think maybe you're seeing hostility where there was none. ☮

Very probably.

Unfortunately I’m also seeing hostility where it is intended too. Sorry if I tarred you with the same brush.

As I’m Obviously not managing to come here without attracting, or misplacing my own, hostility it is probably best if I bugger off for a while. Or longer.

There's no need to bugger off It's the internet, sometimes wires get crossed. I just read back through the thread, I really don't think anyone is being hostile.

I thought being accused of throwing out "useless notions" was a little below the belt.

But I was referring to being stuck at home looking after three small terrors lovely children whilst my wife is on the frontline in the wards with literally no PPE available making me more (hopefully understandably) irritable than usual.

@iammane

So trying to balance finding music time, being a husband and dad has been quite trying. I'm certain you're in good company my friend

Thanks. Whilst we all have slightly different circumstances, we are all in this together. If we all do the right thing and stay the f*ck at home we will all come out of this sooner.

I am sure many of us have loved ones that are in the direct line of fire so to speak. I would be much happier if the NHS staff at the hospital my wife has been sent to actually had any PPE. The awful manner in which this has been handled by the government makes life an order of magnitude more stressful than it should be.

I'm sorry I've let my stress levels boil over. I'm sure many of us are in the same boat. I certainly don't expect to be the only one that feels like this at this moment in time.

[Deleted User] · April 2020

The user and all related content has been deleted.

iammane · April 2020

@tja said:
@klownshed You really seem to be a tad too sensitive.
Honestly.

Peace

The man's got a lot going on. You've got to deal with the kids all day and worry about your health, their health, and your wife working in a hospital - the literal front line of all this bullshit.. Not gonna lie, I'd be having a fucking freak out too... kudos to you man.

richardyot · April 2020

@klownshed your wife is a heroine, and obviously so are you for looking after the 3 young kids! My kids are a bit older (11 and 14) so lockdown isn't too stressful, I've been lucky. The thought of spending my days looking after kids under five still gives me the terrors.

iammane · April 2020

I have decided three year olds are basically small feral people. It's quite horrible. I thought my seven year old would be the problem, but he's fine. The three year old though, holy shit....

klownshed · April 2020

@iammane said:

@tja said:
@klownshed You really seem to be a tad too sensitive.
Honestly.

Peace

The man's got a lot going on. You've got to deal with the kids all day and worry about your health, their health, and your wife working in a hospital - the literal front line of all this bullshit.. Not gonna lie, I'd be having a fucking freak out too... kudos to you man.

Thank you. I appreciate the support.

klownshed · April 2020

@richardyot said:
@klownshed your wife is a heroine, and obviously so are you for looking after the 3 young kids! My kids are a bit older (11 and 14) so lockdown isn't too stressful, I've been lucky. The thought of spending my days looking after kids under five still gives me the terrors.

Thank you. She is. I’m not. I’m just a grumpy old man :-)

klownshed · April 2020

@iammane said:
I have decided three year olds are basically small feral people. It's quite horrible. I thought my seven year old would be the problem, but he's fine. The three year old though, holy shit....

My youngest will be three in a couple of weeks.

He’s currently going through his “I told you don’t talk to me!” Phase. :-/

I’m going through my realising work is actually a walk in the park compared to staying home phase. :-D

ralis · April 2020

@Charlesalbert said:

@onerez said:
For me I use Xequence as my linear DAW.. and point it to AUM. I can do everything I want... all the automation, fader controls and its the most stable of anything that I have.
I use multi out of pulse and DigiStix for all my audio and samples. I might go back to ns2 at some point but it was so buggy with a lot of AU’s I use.

Pardon my ignorance but how do "Point" Xequence to AUM?

db909 · April 2020

@klownshed said:

@db909 said:

@Thomas said:

@db909 said:
I would start by redefining what you think constitutes a “full” or “complete” track. Duration aside, you probably think you have to go through a series of “proper” steps that you only think is “the” way to do it because that’s how you learned or because that’s what you heard pros do. Might save you a lot of time throwing out useless notions.

Good point. A big hurdle in the iOS world is accepting the multiplicity of ways to compose a track.

Yeah this was what I was getting at, perhaps it came out a bit harsh. I mean I learned what I said the hard way too, I wasted a lot of time on stuff that didn’t matter and didn’t get many tracks finished. It’s a journey for sure

I don’t think it’s a good point in this context. More shitty than harsh. You have no idea about my abilities, limitations, talents or lack thereof.

I can do without this kind of crap. My wife is working 12 hour shifts risking her life in hospital and I can’t even post a little story about making a crappy track on a frikkin phone as an ill fated attempt to distract myself for a minute or two without someone wading in and having a go in a thoughtless attempt to make themselves appear superior.

Stay safe and be well.

Thomas · April 2020

@db909 said:

@klownshed said:

@db909 said:

@Thomas said:

@db909 said:
I would start by redefining what you think constitutes a “full” or “complete” track. Duration aside, you probably think you have to go through a series of “proper” steps that you only think is “the” way to do it because that’s how you learned or because that’s what you heard pros do. Might save you a lot of time throwing out useless notions.

Good point. A big hurdle in the iOS world is accepting the multiplicity of ways to compose a track.

Yeah this was what I was getting at, perhaps it came out a bit harsh. I mean I learned what I said the hard way too, I wasted a lot of time on stuff that didn’t matter and didn’t get many tracks finished. It’s a journey for sure

I don’t think it’s a good point in this context. More shitty than harsh. You have no idea about my abilities, limitations, talents or lack thereof.

I can do without this kind of crap. My wife is working 12 hour shifts risking her life in hospital and I can’t even post a little story about making a crappy track on a frikkin phone as an ill fated attempt to distract myself for a minute or two without someone wading in and having a go in a thoughtless attempt to make themselves appear superior.

Stay safe and be well.

+1

klownshed · April 2020

Thanks. :-)

Especially for bearing with me. Was having a bad day. Xx

Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

Making 'full' tunes on an iDevice... (Too long) thoughts and ramblings

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