Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
Just goes to show how underwhelming the ipad pro announcement was and how some people got sick of Apple's antics.
That being said, not everyone has been trashing it.
I think that iPads and surfaces are different devices with differing software available. They have very different pros and cons. They fit different needs and promote different ways of making music. Neither is better or worse, unless compared against needs.
Costs of each system are very much based on what an individual wants, already has, desired use and are only directly comparable on an individual basis.
My own scenario would be as follows:
I have and iPad Air2 64gb.
I have spent around £800 on apps and could pretty much stop buying now.
The nature, quality and touch centric nature fits my current use, needs and desires (except the ones noted below).
The low cost of individual apps makes experimental desires fun, easy, low risk and easy to spread costs.
My future scenario:
My use would greatly benefit from more touch real estate.
My use may expand into more serious recording again with a Windows or Mac computer, but I now prefer touch / pen then mouse / keyboard input.
I will not be able to afford a laptop and another touch device at once.
I have no computer music software above and beyond my iPad apps.
Buying an iPad pro:
Much more real estate for playing touch apps as instruments.
Already have software that would get the job done, if not the best for recording.
The future is not yet written and music apps may evolve in use as well as keep the current experimental nature of many iOS apps.
They both serve as backups if one has a problem.
Communication between the two could be problematic.
Reasonably secure.
Buying a Surface Pro:
Separate touch real estate for some interesting touch recording apps.
Pen input device for small buttons.
Good bang for buck power, storage etc.
Good open communication to other devices and can back up iPad.
Windows past pain.....enough said.
Cost of buying and updating software initially.
Windows....did I mention that? Lol
Buying a Mac laptop:
No touch screen.
Some quality software.
Can back up iPad.
Eggs in two baskets.
Could use for other uses.
Initial high outlay cost for device and software.
So much to think about, so for now just save!
To me Fugue Machine isn't an iOS innovation. It just happens to be on iOS and is a software innovation that could likely be on any modern OS. There are distinctions between the iOS operating system, the iOS software (apps), the iOS community, the iOS marketplace, even the iOS phenomina (if you want to get woowoo) etc. Can be tricky to specifically know what people are referencing sometimes when they simply say iOS and that is how the majority of debates happen across the board in culture; people not defining their terms and just plowing forward anyway with the arguments 'goal posts' jumping around at different rates like so many Fugue Machine playheads, heh, humans are fun.
I own a Surface Pro 3 and a Surface 3. Before that, Surface 2 and on.
Love them. Fantastic machines. But it's an entirely different feel from the iPad.
The iPad, and now the Pro model are very premium items. The sort of thing you have to be financially comfortable with (unless you are a total Apple nut , then you don't care LOL).
But this is nothing new. Just very expensive. I think the Surface is more economical, like you said.
I agree about the distinctions. The main credit goes to the developers who chose iOS as their platform. As far as the "woo woo" as you put it I'm guilty. I've been a proud computer geek since my first computer the Commodore 64. I will be yelling "woo woo" till the day I die. ;-)
The "pro" in iPad Pro from a professional musicians perspective would seems to be lacking some basic features:
works on a sandbox app model rather than a user controlled file system
doesn't have a USB port to allow easier connection to other peripherals
iOS has a ratcheting upgrade system and yearly introduction of a new OS which can be very hard for developers and the user to work with a given set of apps and expect it all to continue working together consistently.
No 3D touch even though it's on the new iPhones
No major DAW is available for iOS.
Backups tied to computers or cloudbased.
Will they sell enough of these devices to make it worthwhile to iOS app developers to create music apps which utilize its screen and hardware capabilities or will it just be a larger version of the existing iPads?
The current Audio Unit memory limitations mean it will have nothing like the power and flexibility of VST on desktops and laptops.
Limited storage which is compounded by sand boxing. You can't just add a hard drive or flash drive to increase your capacity.
The music infrastructure is still developing. IAA still isn't rock solid and can require some fiddling around to get things going which sometimes fails to work. MIDI implementations aren't consistent across major music apps. Wi-Fi on can sometimes compromise the music work flow, and sometimes apps need Wi-Fi on to perform basic functions.
The App Store is dominated by a culture of low cost apps with free upgrades which depend upon a mass market to sustain development. Pro music apps would be for a smaller audience, require more development effort, and it remains to be seen if developers will be willing to make such an investment or if the professional musicians would be willing to support such an investment or remain on desktop/laptop platforms.
Until these issues are addressed, I would think many professional musicians would view the iPad Pro as being not too different from the mass market non-pro iPads already available.
I agree and I think this has been true since the Air. In order to make a profit developers try to make an app run on the older iPads and as a result the newer iPads are not pushed to their maximum potential. But I see most of the current apps as being pro apps. I'm very happy with what we have.
There is an advantage to having a more powerful iPad. You can have more apps open on Audiobus and it runs faster. I've said this before but I really think it is going to be cool to run Cubasis and some of the Sugar Bytes apps on a large screen.
You make a number of very good points there @Paul.
I really think the days of MacBooks not being multitouch screen have to be limited. A touchscreen macbook is so obvious an advantage. At that point, the distinction between an Apple tablet and an Apple laptop will increasingly blur.
My iPad2 since iOS9 has become unbearable to use, it’s so unresponsive, even for just pressing the numbers to unlock it — it seems to ignore me and then decide to respond a while later, while I've already corrected the apparent mistake of not touching the screen when instead I was actually supposed to be touching the screen, and it turns out I was touching it after all, but that was then and this is now. It never used to be slow, and it’s the same nice top of the range stupidly expensive 64GB iPad2 it always used to be, but I’m really put off the idea of using an iPad for much longer now — the iPad seems to be a crippled platform.
Ive always been interested in Android as an alternative — I don’t have an Apple phone (too expensive, seeing as I hardly ever use a phone) but I do have an android phone, and again, it’s not the phone I bought a few years ago — this time it’s still the same speed (or if anything, it’s slicker) but the user interface has become utterly baffling and incomprehensible, as though decisions were made right under my nose behind my back and I wasn’t informed. Android usage is more unfamiliar to me now than it was several years ago when I first got into it. Also, I have heard about the timing problems that Android music apps would typically have. Also, I’ve yet to ever pay anything for an Android app, I only ever consider free ones. There’s something about the platform that makes it seem utterly senseless to pay money toward anything on it.
I’ll never ever touch a Microsoft product, because, you know, they’re Microsoft. I’ve never used windows, and never had a microsoft program on my Macs, and that’s the way it must be. If Microsoft tablets turn out to be good for music and creativity, I’ll a] not believe it, and b] ignore it, because, you know, Microsoft.
Increasingly I’m not using my iPad as it’s turgid, but If I’m not using my Macs, I’ve got Linux machines, not for anything creative, but as servers. Also, a Raspberry Pi 2, which I use as a video playout deck into my video gear.
Other than the increasingly cryptic Android, the only real alternative to iOS I see is to wait for OS X to get touch-screened up.
@u0421793 You mean the Air 2? Mine has been very fast since the iOS 9 update. If it's the iPad 2 it's a little long in the tooth.
hehe sweet, digital music started for me on pc with the adlib card in '87 and then I went Amiga so props to my fellow Commie... 8)
@u0421793 - turn off all the predictive typing features and you'll find the typing experience becomes a lot smoother. Of course, you may like the predictive typing :-)
I don't, and when I turned it off it made a big difference.
The way I see it, all these arguments are comparisons to desktop computers, which these aren't and never will be, so why bother.
They do certain things well. They are deliberately gimped.
Of course there's room for improvement (lots) : D
I had an Amiga too.
I was running Dr. T's MRS for my MIDI sequencer. I had it hooked up to a Six Trax multitambrial synth and a Roland R8 drum machine. Those were the days ...
My iPad2 hasn’t changed its name, it hasn’t sprouted an ‘air’ in there recently, it’s still called the iPad2. It does the job perfectly and has worked superbly for years, up until the iOS 9 transplant. Now all of a sudden people think it’s old. But it’s not broken, I’ve looked after it, with hardly a scratch on it. The sim slot is a bit dodgy sometimes, but the rest of the machine itself is in the same condition it was when it was new, if I cleaned the screen a bit.
I don’t know how to turn any predictive typing off for the number-pushing getting-in screen when you switch it on again.
I too used to have an Amiga, and now have an iPad2 (not Air), so I'm looking forward to seeing the performance improvement when I get my iPad Pro!
Six Trax were so cool at the time.
Oh - you mean the lock screen @u0421793 ? I never use that so I don't know what effect it has on that.
I used MED sound studio(after Octamed) with a midi interface. It was playing Roland's Vintage Synths(Dc-1 & Vintage), also Boss Dr Synth 330, Yamaha RY 10,Boss SE 50, going thru, a Phonic 8 channel mixer, before I purchased a Roland MC 505, Yam Remix & Yam SU 7000.
Ahh, Dr. t's was impressive stuff. I mostly used Octamed hooked up to a Roland Sound Canvas and a Perfect Sound digitizer making industrial music. Those were the days indeed. What an embaressment of riches we have now,heh, I love it. How can i not be completely addicted to this thing I have in front of me that is the size of a comic book and renders me speachless when I think about trying to put it into words...
hah! i still use my Roland Vintage Synth MVS1 from time to time. I find there are some simple bleeps and tones on it that just process so well for me.
moving files around is a total PIA! having to use iTunes and/or Dropbox as an intermediary is a total BS!! I dont accept that as "the" solution from Apple. Its my device I paid money for it. I should be access to a reasonable feature such as inserting a USB stick or some other storage device directly in the hardware and being able to move a set of data files onto local storage.
I wonder if people who want a pro for multitasking split screen work realize that you could do better with two normal iPads for around the same price-
It's gonna be HUUUGE!
I don't really know what it means for music other than I'll have a bigger screen on my music stand. Obviously it has significantly more RAM than any iOS device has ever had and I can't remember what they said about the CPU and all that but I would imagine it is much more powerful than the Air 2. I would hope/imagine we'll see more "professional" level apps for it than the standard iPad and iPhone stuff. But then I was optimistic about the Apple Watch and that thing sucks.
I love working with two ipads. Very tempted to get this https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/7656/send-midi-between-ipad-and-mac-directly-by-usb/p1 to make it even better.
Same here. I like the two cheaper older ipads vs 1 new ipad pro idea
so is this the time to get an iPad mini 4 or should I wait until after december?
It's impossible to predict what Apple will do, price wise. I hung on for six months before buying my Air 2, and expected a price drop shortly after - but 8 months later it's still the same price.
I'd say go for it as soon as you can, and you'll get to enjoy using it a bit longer.
I'm wondering if I should replace my Mini 2. For me it depends if it has 2 GB of RAM.