Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
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I don't disagree. I just wish it was as strong with it's MIDI capabilities as it is with it's audio.
But at least now with users like @_ki reporting the errant behaviors with MIDI generators/FX, the @WaveMachineLabs team will be able to look into things more closely.
When I’m not just fooling around and actually need to get something done start to finish in a limited amount of time, it’s Auria Pro for me. Other than the currently spotty AU midi support (which I’m sure will get sorted eventually) it’s the only environment that has absolutely everything I need all in one place.
I find it to be quite a good MIDI sequencer. True, there are still some kinks being worked out with AU MIDI plugins (which RIM seems to be actively looking into now that the issues have been reported), but other than those issues, I’ve found it to be as or more capable than Cubasis once you learn its MIDI-editing conventions. And I find it’s humanize options a great feature when I am programming repetitive grooves.
I happily use Cubasis for some things but find that Auria Pro has much better MIDI capabilities than it gets credit for. And when working with certain kinds of material, it’s much better time resolution makes it superior.
Auria is hugely strong with in midi capabilities IMO.
A lot of people hate the midi editor. I don’t mind it. But the greatest strength is in the midi channel strip. The non-destructive groove and humanization controls are superb. And the ability to route midi between tracks is powerful. I know of nothing else like it on iOS.
I forgot to mention the amazing 960,000 PPQN for "Sample Accurate MIDI" timing which I can't pretend to understand fully. But I can see how getting Audio Samples to sync properly would be essential in a mix to maintain phase relationships and make the music sound really tight.
If I understand the "Sample Accurate MIDI" concept, it means MIDI events can be "snapped" to the resolution of the "audio grid". Trying to learn more I Googled the topic and just got to the point where I was praying for a "Khan Academy" tutorial.
http://auriaapp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14497#p57087
That's some deep technical detail, right? Is that like 10 notches of accuracy on a 96KHz Sampling rate?
Auria Pro is a wonder for technical implementation details. Now imagine adding MIDI FX without documentation based upon getting it right by testing Apps.
I should take this opportunity to beg WaveMachine Labs to sell Lyra as a standalone Sampler. Ideally implemented as an AUv3 App. I'd pay $25-50 for it. The SFZ implementation just works and it's disk streaming performance is perfect. It can load 24-Bit Salamander SFZ
and the load the complete "Piano in 162" SFZ which might be the largest free Piano Soundfont (6GB?). Not sure if it handles the "pedal effect" layers in response to the sustain pedal.
I'm not playing devil's advocate here but that 960,000 PPQN is a pretty meaningless metric. Sample accurate audio is exceptionally useful for capturing live performance but with MIDI, especially on a mobile device you want a PPQN rate that enables you to program easily by hand and use groove quantise/swing to make things less robotic.
Logic Audio and Pro Tools are the only desktop DAWs with 960,000 PPQN. MOTU, Ableton, FL Studio, Bitwig and Cubase all have less. And many people hate to go above 96 PPQN as that's enough granularity to shift notes around by hand and get a good feel for what you're doing.
Working with audio, on the other hand, you really want and need to zoom in to sample level to make sure your cuts are at zero crossing points (and even here a bit of crossfading hides a multitude of sins).
960,000 PPQN makes you think 'blimey, if every quarter note can be chopped into 960,000 segments, that means my awesome midi performances will be captured without compromise'. But sorry to burst your bubble you've got various latencies in the chain and things like jitter to ensure your MIDI performance are never captured exactly as they were played.
The average value for PPQN in desktop DAWs these days is 960 PPQN. For those that don't believe me when I say that is more than adequate. At 120 Bpm, one of those 960 pulses equates to 0.13 ms. Divide that by 10 to get to the standard for many years of 96 PPQN (and in those DAWs that allow you to customise the PPQN many artists/engineers still choose 96 PPQN as a preference) that's still only 1.3 ms. When you look at PPQN like this, you can see why 96,000 can seem like a ridiculous metric to many.
Steinberg didn't make Cubasis 48 PPQN because they're lazy programmers. The did it this way because they believe that the majority of people using a DAW on iOS will want to be able to enter and edit MIDI data values with minimal fuss. And it's highly likely that they don't believe that highly accurate MIDI performance capture is a priority for many of their customers.
Vive la difference. It's great that we have multiple DAWs with different personalities but sometimes, when you see those big numbers in the marketing materials, hold back your inner Jeremy Clarkson as more doesn't always automatically mean better!
@jonmoore : in my opinion, you are using some lovely rhetorical flourishes to make it seem like having high time resolution is silly. Just because an app such as ProTools or Auria Pro has time resolution for MIDI of higher precision than is typically required doesn’t mean that it isn’t important some of the time to have far better resolution than 48ppq. There is a reason that 480 or 960 ppq is standard on desktop, including Steinberg’s Cubase.
For most people, especially if they use quantization and tend not to go beyond sixteenth notes and stick to medium to fast tempi, 48ppq is adequate. But for a lot of musical applications 48ppq or 96ppq really isn’t adequate.
Regarding 'instrument AUs receiving midi from generator AUs in Auria Pro 2.22' i made two posts in on the Auria forum.
Rim will probably fix this problem, he is busy working on the midi AU topic.
.
PS: Please don't make me also test all my audio FX AUs
I need some time off to jam around with Audio Veeks Atom.
My tongue was firmly in my cheek, and my comments had nothing to do with arguing a preference for Cubasis. I actually use ModStep more than any other host, with apeMatrix within it to make up for the fact that ModStep was never updated for MIDI FX.
I agreed with you earlier that 48 PPQN isn't ideal but I also said I'd be happy with 96 PPQN.
I'd guestimate that for at least 95% of the iOS music community that 960,000 PPQN is something they'll never really need and in many cases, they won't even know what the number signifies. That's not to say Auria Pro is a bad product because it features 96k PPQN, but I do think it's poor that Auria Pro only just implemented AUv3 plugin delay compensation. What's the point of all of that timing granularity/accuracy, if MIDI instruments are being played back without plugin delay compensation. And even the audio data was being compromised if AUv3 FX where in use. It's things like this that have stopped me from upgrading to Auria Pro (or even using Auria for mixing stems).
I'm actually not a huge fan of Cubasis all things considered, but if I am looking for linear DAW features on iOS rather than an Ableton style clip launching (ModStep), I'd far rather use something with more basic features, where everything works as it should and crashes are kept to a minimum.
Thanks for the awesome overview of some timing details. I was fishing for better insight into the 960,000 PPQN from the Auria Forum. I love knowing more about how things work and when something is important and when it's not.
@jonmoore and @McD : forget the 960,000. I think you are getting too caught up in whether that degree of precision is necessary. That number is just an artifact of the math.
What is important is that for some applications arbitrarily high resolution is worthwhile.
Jon mentioned how annoying it was that Auria Pro did not previously have delay compensation. The good news was that because it had sample accurate MIDI timing, you good nudge your MIDI (and audio) tracks as needed.
Anybody think it's a bad sign that the Fab Pro-Q 3 wasn't released in the latest update? For the past 3 or 4 Fabs, they've been released in October-ish and ported like clockwork for the spring time Auria update (March-April).
Yes but sadly one very regrettable side-effect of this design choice is that they have also limited audio resolution to this very coarse level, meaning you can't make anywhere near sample accurate audio edits in Cubasis. Add to that the fact that also can't do any kind of crossfading in Cubasis and it becomes pretty obvious why the more audio based musicians tend to prefer Auria. And I'm also certain that the MIDI issues will be fixed in Auria long before we see better grid resolution in Cubasis.
At the end of the day, for all its flaws, Auria is still the best mixer on iOS by far.
And that's why I said celebrate the differences. I'm in absolute agreement that Auria is the best solution for mixing audio stems on iOS. The only reason I got drawn back into the discussion was the posts saying it's the best with MIDI too. Maybe one day that will be the case but for the moment it's not.
For the way I like to work on a mobile platform ModStep 2 is the thing I'm most looking forward to. Whilst I get a lot of remix commissions for traditional bands, I'm at heart an electronic musician and DJ. It's the reason I prefer to work with Ableton on the desktop (formally a Logic user, before it's sad demise under Apple).
Logic and Cubase where great sequencing platforms on the desktop because they were built for the demands of MIDI long before they included audio features (Logic lost it's way under Apple because the management team saw Avid as the primary competition). Pro Tools, on the other hand, has never successfully made the transition over to MIDI for the simple reason that the design team doesn't really understand the ingredients of a great MIDI sequencer. A lot of studios I know that record traditional bands are moving away from Pro Tools towards MOTU Digital Performer, as it seems to be getting things right for both audio and MIDI.
For many years I used Ableton rewired into Logic. At first because Ableton didn't have MIDI but once it did, it took a long time before Ableton's MIDI features moved from primitive to reasonable. These days with Cycling 74's Max within Live, Live has incredibly sophisticated MIDI control and most importantly for me, it's great at converting DAW automation to control voltages for controlling external analog synths and modular kit (Ableton now own Cycling 74).
The judgments I make regarding Auria are informed by many years of experience with desktop DAW's. Having started out with Cubase on the Atari ST, I moved to Notator Logic on Apple Macintosh and I stayed with that through the Emagic years and under Apple for a good number of years too. Ableton's loop-based workflows made an instant impression with Live 1 but it took a good number of years before I moved over to it completely.
I remain open-minded regarding my tools and on that basis, use FL Studio as a VST within Ableton Live as it has some amazing modulation options, and two of its native instruments (Sytrus and Harmor) are amongst the best on any platform (it's also priced very competitively and has lifetime upgrades so the decision was easy). Bitwig is something I dabble with (it being the creation of two former Ableton programmers, that was always going to happen) and maybe one day something I'll move over in that direction.
As mentioned in another thread, I own all the major sequencing packages on iOS and Auria. My issues with it's MIDI capabilities are less to do with it's advertised feature set and more to do with its robustness with regard to its implementation of said MIDI features.
@jonmoore : i don't think anyone said that Auria Pro is hands-down the best for MIDI if I am who you were referring to.
I have said that for some contexts it is better than Cubasis and also said that most people don't seem to have a need for something approaching sample-accurate note placement.
For people making music that is tightly linked to a click etc Cubasis limited resolution isn't an issue.
But there is plenty of music where it is. Got tracks played by folks not using a click but has good feel? Good luck adding MIDI parts that line up well with that feel in Cubasis.
Working on some music for a film/video scene where you need events tightly coupled to events in the video or on its audio, good luck.
Auria Pro works great for those use-cases? Got a tune with shifting time signatures or tempos.
Auria Pro certainly has some weaknesses but it also has some frequently over-looked strengths that may not be relevant to what you do in iOS.
To repeat, for a large percentage of use-cases both amateur and pro Cubasis' limitations are not a problem. For some use-cases, the issues are a deal-breaker.
Point 2, Auria Pro's MIDI capabilities is better than most people realize. It sounds like it doesn't suit you. That's fine,but I think you exaggerate its faults.
Incorrect, I keep an active eye on threads both here and on the Auria forum and regularly check on the documentation to see where things are (the documentation, however, is out of date - last update seems to have been July 2018). It's a combination of these information sources that lead me to believe that Auria Pro isn't where it needs to be for solid MIDI sequencing duties, not just what I look for in a MIDI sequencer. I really hope Auria Pro can become a more MIDI sequencing centric solution as I'll happily pay the upgrade fee.
As I've previously stated, Auria Pro is by far the best solution for working with Audio stems on iOS (even better now that it utilises plugin delay compensation for AUv3s). But even though it has some solid MIDI features these can't be considered (by me) until Auria Pro is a more robust solution for working with AUv3 instruments, generators, FX and MIDI FX. It needs to get the basics right before its more advanced MIDI features count.
Auria Pro is perfectly capable of sequencing IAA and AU synths. The only problem is with MIDI AUv3 plugins, but it's really not accurate to say Auria can't sequence MIDI synths. It does it just as well as any other iOS DAW. As an example I would say MIDI clock is much more stable in Auria than it is in Cubasis, if you want to slave a drum app for example it's impossible to get solid timing in Cubasis whereas in Auria it works.
I can only go by bugs reported both here and on the Auria forum.
With regards to MIDI Clock syncing, I've always found Ableton Link to be by far the best approach. BM3 and ModStep have this capability natively, with Cubasis (and Auria) you can use the 99p app MIDI Link Sync or my preferred approach is to host apeMatrix within Cubasis and set up a rock-solid Ableton Link based sync from there.
Something I really hate about this forum is that any form of constructive criticism is set upon with zealot-like responses. And when that happens, my resolve grows stronger. I can't stand tribalism wherever it shows it's ugly head.
I've not said that Aurio Pro is rubbish or suggested that Cubasis is better, I've simply stated that Auria Pro has a long history of problems regarding it's MIDI implementation (you only have to look on this and the Auria forum for hard evidence of this). The current problems are mainly with MIDI Generators/FX but it's wrong to suggest that that's the only area of MIDI where Auria Pro has reported MIDI problems, even in the last 6 months.
So once again for the record, I state that Auria Pro is a great product, but its track record with regards to MIDI, needs to improve if I'm to consider it for MIDI duties. Even if tomorrow an update was released that suggested that @WaveMachineLabs fixed all existing MIDI bugs I'd wait at least 3 months to see how that pans out by checking on bug reports both here and on the Auria forum.
I make my living from audio production, so I need to be sure the tools I use don't throw out too many curve balls. Much as I've stated before that I don't use iOS DAWs for commercial output, that doesn't mean that I don't want a solid environment where I could produce on iOS alone. Any criticisms I have of Auria Pro, stem from the fact that it could already be the solid environment I'm looking for; if only the development roadmap had been more accelerated.
But you're making blanket statements about an app you've never actually used, which is just completely unjustified.
There are well-known problems currently with AUv3 MIDI, and to point those out is absolutely necessary.
But to say:
is just completely over the top, and not accurate. As a sequencer it works just as well as all the other options, in some respects it works better (non-destructive quantize, groove templates etc).
There's a world of difference between reading about an app and actually using it day-in day-out. And criticising the app is absolutely fine, as long as the criticism is actually justified, but most of what is going on here is more noise than signal unfortunately.
This isn't about zealotry, it's simply about balance.
@jonmoore : This is the first I’ve heard about a trend of Logic defectors moving over to MOTU DP as I was under the impression that most of them were going over to Presonus Studio One . I DO love the virtual telecaster in DP though!
I said Pro Tools, not Logic.
@Telstar5
I agree, Presonus Studio One is also a great product quietly stealing thunder from the industry giants.
Richard there isnt' a seperate demo for Auria Pro so I can only go by the bug reports contained both here and on the Auria forum. But I have been a customer of Auria from the week it was first released so I know something of the app and its slow development roadmap.
Any criticism I've made can be matched back to hard evidence with regard to reported bugs. I'm not saying all those bugs still exist (or even if they where justified) but am saying categorically that ever since MIDI was introduced to Auria with the release of Auria Pro, the bug reports suggest that the road has been a bumpy one.
But also with all due respect. The majority of Auria Pro customers as you yourself suggested (particuarly with regard to the beta testers) over these last few days, are not necessarily those that are pushing the MIDI side of things the hardest. I'd guess that the majority are people that record real instruments, or tend to record any MIDI instrumentation off the grid and without quantising. I'm not being unbalanced to say that the needs of typical electronic artists have not been at the forefront of @WaveMachineLabs minds. Auria Pro is very much targetted at the sorts of individuals with an affinity for Pro Tools or Logic Audio over Ableton Live, FL Studio, Bitwig or Cubase.
This isn't a bad thing as there are a hell of a lot of artists out there that hate Ableton Live, FL Studio, Bitwig and Cubase. To them the first three are only used to make horror of horrors, 'EDM' (god, do I hate that catch-all term).
There's a DNA in every product design whether the creators like it or not. And it's often this indescribable DNA of a product that powers emotional connections in the artists that use those products. For all of ModSteps faults, I love it and can tell that it was created by somebody that interacts with their music technology products in much the same way that I do. There's still no finer product on iOS for sequencing hardware synthesizers and modular kit.
For sure Auria is definitely more of a Pro Tools/Logic kind of app, and will never be an Ableton type app. But what we're all looking for is for the basics to be working correctly. I know that Rim is committed to getting the bugs ironed out and I'm sure they will be. The vast majority of MIDI related bugs have been fixed already. I do a fair amount of drum and synth recording/sequencing in Auria and I don't experience major issues - the one thing I don't tend to use is generative plugins simply because they don't really interest me, which is why I don't own Rozetta.
The thing is all the iOS DAWs either have bugs (I'm looking at you BM3), missing features (hello Nanostudio 2), or questionable design decisions (yes I'm talking about Cubasis and it's ridiculous audio resolution). Auria is actually the most complete for now, but of course it has faults and is not for everyone - some people dislike its UI, some people find it too complex etc...
@jonmoore : you are pushing hard a perspective which by your own admission is based on reading comments rather than actual use...and also treating the comments explaining some of its MIDI strengths as inconsequential when they aren’t for those that need them. It’s your right. But, as you are probably aware, comments in public fora are also not necessarily a representative sample. Is AP at the cutting edge of MIDI? No. But you really give an exaggerated view.
I am not trying to convince you. I mostly am adding this for anyone that is happening upon this thread as they decide what direction to go in ... and provide some perspective from someone that uses both Cubasis and Auria Pro.
@jonmoore :You’re correct, my complete bad ..👍
Now this is a more balanced reply I'll happily agree with although I've never said that other iOS DAWs don't have bugs and I've stated also stated on many occasions that Cubasis is not without its faults. Plus skeuomorphism is something I've always hated so I'll agree with that aspect regarding Auria's UI too.
@espiegel123 I'm not attempting to convince you or any of the other Auria Pro owners to down tools. But equally, I believe that anybody considering Auria Pro for MIDI sequencing should be fully aware that the journey to here has been far from smooth.
My ultimate take on Auria Pro is that @WaveMachineLabs took a gamble on creating a monopolistic walled garden environment for third-party FX and instruments and then thankfully the community of iOS audio developers managed to convince Apple that an open plugin format was better for everybody. The journey back from that place hasn't been as smooth as it could have been for Auria but things are improving all the time.
When Auria was first launched, I embraced it with open arms. But any company that displays monopolistic tendencies gives me reason for doubt - but hey I'm just one of those Commie left-wing European types! Even Steinberg when they created the VST format had the foresight to make it an open platform.
@richardyot By the way out of 9 tools in the @brambos Rozeta Midi suite, only 2 are generative. The rest are sequencers of one kind or another or control devices. The complex LFO could very loosely be called a generative sequencing tool but generative usually means unpredictable results from simple rules, an LFO (even a complex one) creates very predictable results.
Stagelight is my “Ableton”, Auria is my “Pro Tools”..
Stagelight is the girl far to young for me, that I flirt with whilst away from home. ModStep is my childhood sweetheart, I return to time and time again, even though the passing years of time have taken their toll. Cubasis is my occasional dalliance; she's not a looker but she's a cracking little standby.
Who knew I could be so un-PC and channel my inner Michael Caine in Alfie subconscious so effectively!