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Drumming app with no grid
Hey there,
I can never make anything I like using a drum grid; the normal sequencing way.
I'm wondering whether anyone knows of an app that allows me to just tap out a rhythm and then it iterates on that rhythm. I don't want to literally tap the instruments; I just want it to get the general idea of what rhythm I want and then generate a rhythm based upon that. Ideally I'd then be able to iterate it as many times as I want to generating rhythm after rhythm with different kits until I'm happy.
For instance, the other day I knew i wanted a shuffle but I didn't know how to make that in the sequencer so I was a bit stuck. However, I could tap it out.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
all best,
James.
Comments
Any drum app that has an MPC-style pad layout and the ability to turn quantize off would work for that. Beatmaker 2, iMPC Pro, iMaschine 2 (I think this one lets you turn quantize off) and I'm sure there are plenty of others I'm not thinking off right off the bat.
There are also some others such as Different Drummer which don't use grid-based sequencing, but frankly I'd personally suggest starting with the suggestions above.
DD uses grid and non-grid modes....just to clarify, however I agree with @CalCutta that the others are probably a better solution.
I think all of them except iMaschine 2 have a grid option, but you're not tied to it
Figure. Maybe.
A tiny bit off-topic, the producer Burial claimed that he did all his sequencing manually in Cool Edit Pro with nothing quantized. That's very impressive if true.
Grid or no Grid, when my inspiration for drumming strikes I don't wan't to care what BPM I beat the pads at.
Unfortunately most apps do not have any way of time-freezing the recorded midi and adjusting the BPM/Grid to match the recorded notes. This works better for audio as the grid adapts when changing the BPM after recording.
So most of the time it's not about grid or no grid, it's more about what 'speed/tempo' the app records the notes at and sometimes playing other than 4/4 at something else than straight 1/8 or 1/16 can make things go crazy if the timing is not rock solid. Personally I tend to 'swing/shuffle' and hit off-beat notes while playing so the best results I've gotten is to set quantise to 1/16t or somethings similar and roughly setting the tempo to match using tap-tempo.
So even with quantise off apps like Cubasis 'snap' to closest 1/192nd note as do most other sequencers as they have their internal clock running at maybe 480ppqn less or more.
I don't know of any drum-app where the quantise mechanisms 'threshold' can be adjusted, it's mostly just note-values but depending on a users playing-style it would be handy to be able to 'adjust' the quantise mechanism to match the play-style (ie. when to adjust the notes forward or backward).
Just for fun I did a search for midi shuffle beats and found a lot of free options. Once you have the files you can easily edit them in order to quickly come up with as many variations as you want. That might be too easy, but it could work.
I wouldn't put this on any other app than Cubasis. Cubasis is the only app I know of which is flat-out lying when they say quantize is turned off, it never actually is (this happens with both Audio and MIDI quantize snap options). I'd use a nicer word than "lying", except this has been endlessly reported to Steinberg and they won't even acknowledge the problem. I stopped using Cubasis for anything specifically because of this.
Most apps have an internal PPQN resolution at which they record the data and that in turn is related to the set tempo. So even when quantise is turned off the PPQN is determines at what resolution the notes are stored.
That may be true, but Cubasis is far more sloppy and in-exact than any of its peers I've tried. MTS, Auria, and Beatmaker 2 have all shown that they can place a sample or MIDI with quantize off exactly where I'm dragging it. Cubasis can't even come close to that, yet they claim that Quantize is off.
This is not a minor discrepancy, this is a major issue with Cubasis that makes it totally unusable for me. No other comparable app has anywhere near such a sloppy problem. And to reiterate, I've mentioned this problem several times on Cubasis threads on this board, as well as making a thread on Cubasis's own board. I've seen others mention this problem here also. Never seen any acknowledgement whatsoever from anyone representing Steinberg...
I just found out that you can import midi drum loops into DrumPerfect. It works pretty well. If you have some drum loops you can import, then you don't have to mess with the grid. Hint: You can find a midi file of a song with a drum part you like and manually extract the drum part into a separate midi file.
Don't know if it's near what you are looking for @james948 but DrumJam is very good at giving you the tools to create fairly ad-hoc rhythms with.
@james948 FunkDrummer RockDrummer etc. by Luis Martinez can generate fixed and random patterns (fills and jams really) SUPER nice kits too.
You can also try Robotic Drums for a probability based drumline with hits based on how likely they are to happen.
Elastic Drums has randomize features and is awesome. I don't think any app has ITERATIONS.
Egoist can generate random drum and baselines... export?
OR you could use NodeBeat to record midi into Beatmaker / Cubasis. You can put as many nodes out and as many triggers and let them float around.
Anything with midi in/out will let you trigger kits.
Patterning is probably the best you can get to making a beat without a "grid" and edit it FAST. I don't know if it has a random feature.
Or if you want swing per tack and a WHOLE lot more Diode-108
FEATURES
Drag and drop effects let you put effects on individual beats!
* Drum kits licensed from partners Dubsounds, Samples From Mars, Orange Tree Samples, and 99Sounds.
16 drum voices with unlimited patterns that you can arrange into your own songs
* Each pattern can have its own swing
* Turn NOTE MODE on for any voice and control the musical note (up or down an octave from the original pitch). Great for basslines or pitched percussion
Wav sample import
* Mix and Match kits (easily substitute any sample in any kit). Want an 808 kick in a 909 kit? No problem.
Kit Load and Save. Share kits with your friends!
* Dropbox, AudioShare, AudioCopy, IAA, & Audiobus support
MIDI sync (in an out)
@audiblevideo: Good and generous posts.
Diode, and the Luis Martinez apps are totally grid-based piano roll style though
I think the answer to your original question, as so often seems to be the case, is Thumbjam. If you clear any loops, you can just tap in a rhythm without any click or preset bpm. When you end the loop, it automatically allocates an appropriate speed. It assumes that there are 4 beats to a bar, but there is no quantization, so you can ignore the visual beat indications if you have a more exotic time sugnature.
@CalCutta I know I was responding to different parts of his use case example. What he was looking for was a "Drum Generator" into which he could tap out a "pattern" and then have permutations, at a click of a button, on that input to generate many variations from which then he could then choose a pattern – then audition differing kits(whew). I don't think such a thing exists as an app on iOS.
Gosh. Thanks so much guys. I did not expect this response. Glad to see the forums are so alive and helpful. Will go through this and report back!
Impaktor is the coolest finger tapping drum app. Not as flexible for building songs, though.
Impaktor looks amazing.
Drum Jam might be the winner here for me.
I thought of Drum Jam immediately upon reading your initial post. Personally, I love running Impaktor (quantize off) into Loopy using the random (or semi-random) patches in Impaktor, because I like the "I'm not so sure what I'm going to get" nature of it.
To be honest, I think my question may have been misleading. i want an app that will listen to my taps and then work out what the time signature is and throw up a bunch of options.
A lot of the drum machines are easiest to work with in 4/4 but the moment you want something else, I find them extraordinarily hard to work.
Let's take the beat for Take 5 for example
I wouldn't have the first idea how to make this in a drum beat. I mean it sounds like a shuffle or a swing. It's probably 7/8 or something. The only thing I can do is sing it or tap it out. Yes, I could go through a ton of loops and see which is most like the one I have in mind but I'm searching for a solution where I don't have to do that.
A lot of these apps require that you set the time signature first; I don't know the time signature so I want it to listen to me and work out what I mean.
Sorry; does any of this make sense? Very possible the app I want does not exist.
Take 5 is in 5/4 , hence the name
Time Guru Metronome by Decibel Consulting/Avi Bortnick
https://appsto.re/gb/kbIjz.i
Might help, ( it's a metronome not a drum machine, and not audiobus), but it can do all different time signatures and compound rhythms and might help you work out your rhythms by playing along to it.
I agree thumb jam and impaktor are good for recording loops
Surely there's an app for everything but maybe practicing counting out time signatures would be the best move? Then you could apply it to any number of gridded apps that allow for signatures other than 4/4. I'm not at all a music theory person so don't take that as 'you gotta learn the fundamentals!' or any such nonsense. I can count out time signatures (usually) and it really is a handy thing.
If you're looking to tap things out on pads and see what happens without a grid, I would add Beathawk to your list. Quantize can be disabled and you can do much more than make beats, but the beat is the starting point ...
I challenge anyone to make the take five beat on one of these programs!
Genuinely. I think it's hard to do anything other than dance!
LOVE that it's called take five because of that
I really do need to get my head around time sigs. I've watched so many YouTube videos but to no avail
I suffer from a similar problem, I often come up with rhythm guitar parts that are in 5/4, god knows why but it's a time signature that seems to come to me fairly naturally, and it usually takes me ages to fry and figure out why it's so difficult to fit a beat around them because to begin with I assume they're in 4/4. I'm not aware of any app that can automatically detect a time signature though, the only thing that works for me is basic counting.
Ironically, with your initial post, you seemed to indicate not wanting quantize. Later posts point to you actually wanting quantize, but in a more intuitive way (for instance, it's not just tied to 16th notes).
I have a suggestion for this, and it will work with pretty much any sequencer app that has quantize. Turn your bpm down slow enough to where you can play what would be a complex pattern at a faster bpm, but is easier to play because its slower. I would still recommend doing 2 takes, 1 for anything in triplets, and another for anything that's not. Then turn the bpm up and listen back. If you need to change something, you can turn it back down and work in a more exacting way.
The other suggestion is step sequencing. It's more tedious but one of its biggest purposes is the ability to avoid the exact issues you bring up in this thread. You can put notes exactly where you want them, it's just one at a time.