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Thanks Calcutta. I realise I was quite misleading in my original post. I definitely want quanize. But what I don't want is to have to decide what time sig I'm playing in before I begin messing in a sequencer. Just now I spent half an hour messing around in drums apps trying to get what turned out to be a simple waltz. Couldn't do it so just recorded claps in loopy.
You know how if I sang take five: drummed it out on the table and asked you what it was, you could say "oh that's in 5/8" and then "here are some loops in 5/8" that's what I want from an app.
At least DM1 & BM2 is 'capable' of 5/4, Gadget does it and so does Patterning.
Support for Triplets is another feature that is awol from most iOS apps.
Time signatures are one thing, time-division is another both equally important
The Luis Martinez apps have triplets. Auria Pro and MTS can also do this.
DrumPerfect is, imo, the most comprehensive app on iOS for time signatures. It has a learning curve and isn't the most instantly gratifying app though.
@james948 said:
I think the other missing aspect in this equation is the amount of swing used in the time signature. There's a straight 5/4, then there's 5/4 with different levels of swing to offset some of the notes - and the Take5 rhythm definitely has swing. Any rhythm app with swing (which most of them have) should be able to reproduce your waltz or the Take 5 feel. Without it, they'll sound stiff.
Swing is another aspect that would make time signature detection very difficult, as the detection would not only have to recognize where the pattern looped, but also need to understand the amount of swing applied.
I don't want to formalise it. I'm learning drums at the moment. I've been playing piano by ear for fifteen years and I've never truly learned what a crotchet or a triplet is so why start now? I shouldn't have to learn theory to make jazz drumming on an iPad. Should I?
Quantise, triplets, amount of swing, grids and buttons. I just want to be able to sing or drum my iPad what I have in my head and for it to come up with a suggestion. If I get bogged down the moment passes.
The "suggestions" is the hard part. If you can sort out the time sig, you can look in an app like Rock Drum Machine for beats in that time.
Well, I mean, it is Take Five and that is Joe Morello playing the drums—there just aint no app for that.
Drum Perfect will get you closest as far as sonics and swing and syncopation/ghost notes but there's no way around it taking a jillion years. You can probably bang out something that resembles fairly quickly if you know the time signature and tempo you want up front though.
For doing a 5/4 meter in something like DM1, the trick is to set the pattern length to a multiple of 5. To do 5/4 with 16th note steps, you'll need 20 steps. If that's not possible, you can always go shorter but you'll have to halve the tempo and you'll lose resolution.
But nothing with a grid is going to get you the feel of Take Five. You can definitely build a beat in 5/4 in a grid based drum app but doing the late/early/swing/shuffle/nuanced touch/syncopation stuff will be largely impossible. Well, unless you sample a drummer like Morello and rearrange the samples (ala squarepusher).
love this conversation.
If you want to explore (and maybe practice
) drum rhythms you've always got the options of iOS metronomes
Tempo Advance -- $3.99
Almost too many features:
Sudivide, Polyrythm, tempo (10-800) and auto adjustment, setlists, presets,
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tempo-advance-metronome-polyrhythms/id368169363?mt=8
Pro Metronome - ( IAP Pro Version $2.99)
Pro Version features including subdivisions and polyrhythm settings. Create complex patterns with triplets, dotted notes and non-standard time signatures.
Audiobus support
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pro-metronome-tempo-keeping/id477960671?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo=4
So one of these could be a nice clicktrack to which you could try and stuff in a grid.
). Seriously Patterning has no
or use Patterning (no iPhone – wah
'grid' can define the number of beats per measure per instrument and beat duration for polyrhythms and probably for not 4/4 (it DOES have per hit probability like Robotic Drums), ooh and a timeline.
Session Band—Jazz may have stuff that rings true though I didn't think you can edit patterns in there at all. Still, might be good for 'right now' when writing.
Wait, hopefully not too long, and we will be able to tap it out with DrumPerfect Pro.
The term swing is often used when each beat is divided into three rather than the more usual two, and often without having anything happen on the second division, so you get that "daa-da-daa-da" feel. You don't necessarily need a swing function, just use divisions of three. For example, if you use 15 notes to a bar, you can have 5 beats each divided by a "swinging" 3. See attached image for a Take Five-like beat.
listened to Time Out twice today, thank you for the inspiration @james948!
It's a seriously high bar. I'm actually kind of happy there isn't an app for that. Brubeck was an amazing musician and spent a decades getting to a point where Take 5 could even happen. As had all the other people in the room! Including the engineer Fred Plaut. The sound of those drums are just beyond anything I've ever come close to creating or recording (the whole record is that way). But it makes sense: Plaut recorded Kind of Blue and Mingus Ah Um, among hundreds of others. There is no app for this. Hurray!
Seeiosily, look at this list of credits for Plaut. Only RVG or maybe Walter Sear can compete:
http://www.discogs.com/artist/384857-Fred-Plaut
Other stuff this thread got me to read tonight:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Brubeck
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Out_(album)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Plaut
SQUAREPUSHER LOVE!!
It's easier done when chopping up beats than trying to sequence every single drum hit individually
With certainty! There might even be a YouTube video done, showing how easy it is to do...
But guys, I challenge you to respond without using the following words:
When I sit down at a drum kit I can play without thinking about any of those things. I don't want to have to take what is instinctual, translate it into a formal language, then have the ipad app translate it back into something that sounds instinctual.
I want to be able to do it without losing the instinct. I want to play and have the ipad come up with something that is usable based upon what I do.
I know I sound whiny.
@james948 said:
I guess the problem some of us have is that most of those words fit into a fairly simple to grasp concept. I have no formal theory in my background, completely ear trained, but have enough of an understanding that allows me to communicate with rhythm apps and, more importantly, other musicians.
I think it's fair to say that understanding the basics could have been learned in the time it's taken for this thread to evolve.
Ok, but this goes both ways. You're also refusing to see the issues with your requests halfway. Frankly, the truth is that your request actually requires more technical knowledge of the apps you're using on iOS. There is absolutely no way around it, no matter what examples or comparisons you use.
Your example of being on a drumset isn't going to work. Your brain is the only element of this example where decisions are made. On iOS, that's not the case. Apps are written within the capabilities the device presents. Apps aren't capable of automatically conforming to your desires.
YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, and YES.
The OP wants magic out of an app when magic usually is the result of years and years of hard work and dedication. Herewith, a tale:
Legend has it that Pablo Picasso was sketching in the park when a bold woman approached him.
“It’s you — Picasso, the great artist! Oh, you must sketch my portrait! I insist.”
So Picasso agreed to sketch her. After studying her for a moment, he used a single pencil stroke to create her portrait. He handed the women his work of art.
“It’s perfect!” she gushed. “You managed to capture my essence with one stroke, in one moment. Thank you! How much do I owe you?”
“Five thousand dollars,” the artist replied.
“But, what?” the woman sputtered. “How could you want so much money for this picture? It only took you a second to draw it!”
To which Picasso responded, “Madame, it took me my entire life.”
wait a minute so what you're saying is that food doesn't come from the grocery store but rather a farm where it's grown, gtfoh lol
To be clear, you can absolutely do this very thing in scores of iOS apps. Play by instinct and enjoy the output. It'll even record your playing. No need to know anything about anything. But it sounds like you're actually after:
Truth is, the iPad isn't actually magic no matter how many times the good Mr. Jobs said it during the press announcements. It's an instrument. If you want to sound like Joe Morello you're going to have to learn to manage at least some of those terms no matter what you play. Or just get DrumJam, intuit your way to the bedlam feature, drag your finger around, marvel at the as-close-to-magic-as-humanity-knows of it all, rejoice. Send a xmas card to Jesse and Pete next year.
@syrupcore
I blame you for getting this stuck in my head:
Since there's some love for Brubeck/Morello in this thread, y'all should check out The Bad Plus (no apps!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YicihzsxqY
I come back to my Thumbjam suggestion - start a record loop, play what want, stop the loop - then play the loop. No banned words used!
Well, now you've done it back so we're even pal. Would have been cool to hear the Roses cover this 10bpm slower with the hendrix shuffle instead of the rockabilly one in their heyday.
@lukesleepwalker Holy what the? Fun and apt the the conversation to watch the bass player trying to tap out the meter on his chest before he starts. The first part was a little too fun-with-meters happy for me (and the kick felt off) but it all eventually came together beautifully. The break at around 4:25 is amazing and when the meter happy bit came back after that break it felt 'right', whatever that means. The single note piano syncopation maybe did it for me? Thanks for this! I hadn't heard of The Bad Plus before.
Fucking Joe Morello!
Love/hate the way the TV mics (or maybe the tape) just eat it once he gets on with the hitting towards the end.
Jump ahead 40 years and watch the man play a hi-hat solo at 1:35. Solo goes on way to long for my liking but the speed of the single kick pedal at 3:08 is impressive and the way he recovers a lost stick like a boss (keeps pulling out the wrong ones from his bag!) at the end is inspiring and charming. Mind, the man was blind.
And just to make sure mobile browsers crash (sorry!) a 30 minute TV program from 1961 called "Jazz Casual TV" with the DB Quartet playing live and an interesting interview for Brubeck in the middle of it. Morello was just amazing.
To address the OP more directly - the whole reason that there are such things as time signatures, beat divisions etc is to provide a language that essentially puts your musician's intuition into writing, so that other musicians (who were not in the room with you at the time) can figure out what it was that you were trying to achieve, and do something with it.
That takes a lot of intelligence, in both directions (more than any app). You are basically asking for an app that will listen to your beat, read your mind and crank out drum score to match.
@ehauri said:
Absolutely but the iPad is in the room with me and i believe the apps that are being made mean it does qualify as a musician.