Cubasis - $24.99

JohnnyGoodyear

@rickwaugh said:
@Nu2moro, that's the same on any platform, Windows, OSX, or iOS. The devs are at the mercy of what the vendor does to the platform. But I f the devs could make money by charging for upgrades between OS versions, like they do on Windows and iOS, I'm sure they'd be happy. That's just work and revenue for them. But to have to do the work, and not get compensated on it, because Apple says you can't charge for fixes or version upgrades, is a major pain for mobile developers. Every version, you have to put in time and resources to fix something, and you can't ask for compensation.

Yeah. Despite policy which is really strategy on Apple's part there have been many times when I might have been willing to pay another few dollars for an app to be made compatible with, say, 8.4 before I upgraded. I know this was very true with 7 also. Part of me considers it (shock! horror!) Un-American to stop folks making money where there's money to be made, but then it's entirely in keeping with business that the whale gets to decide what is in its best own interest and the pilot fish be damned...

eross

so has anybody heard of a new version of cubasis coming out soon? it's been a while since an update.

lovadamusic

@Jocphone said:

@rickwaugh said:
Lol. Comparing real life to recording is a bit of a stretch. A DAW without an undo is useless. Tough to experiment with changes, in particular destructive ones, without being able to revert.

Not at all. Many experimental pieces of music have been created without the aid of an undo function.

That recent video where Tony Visconti(?) was explaining how they had to bounce some of the tracks destructively when recording 'heroes' and how they recorded all the instruments with effects so there was no going back because that's how Bowie liked it.

Undo is a convenience to some but also a great enabler of indecision at the same time. I could live without it.

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

rickwaugh

That's interesting, that Gadget wouldn't have an undo. It certainly complicates the coding behind it, to be able to do that, but I find myself using it a fair bit, in particular when mucking with regions in Auria, and from destructive changes. And while on the one hand, I like the fact that with iOS, everything is automatically saved as you go, and you dont' have to worry about it, it's also nice to be able to say, "well, that whole session of changes was a massive turd, so I'll just not save any of it."

Jocphone

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

@rickwaugh said:
Lol. Comparing real life to recording is a bit of a stretch. A DAW without an undo is useless. Tough to experiment with changes, in particular destructive ones, without being able to revert.

Not at all. Many experimental pieces of music have been created without the aid of an undo function.

That recent video where Tony Visconti(?) was explaining how they had to bounce some of the tracks destructively when recording 'heroes' and how they recorded all the instruments with effects so there was no going back because that's how Bowie liked it.

Undo is a convenience to some but also a great enabler of indecision at the same time. I could live without it.

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

I don't get the inevitability argument. Plenty of apps, plenty of processes don't have undo and we don't bat an eyelid. All I'm saying is that I don't see what the big deal is. You have this massive brain that can organise and work with many different concepts, undo is pretty insignificant when you think about it.

JohnnyGoodyear

@Jocphone said:

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

@rickwaugh said:
Lol. Comparing real life to recording is a bit of a stretch. A DAW without an undo is useless. Tough to experiment with changes, in particular destructive ones, without being able to revert.

Not at all. Many experimental pieces of music have been created without the aid of an undo function.

That recent video where Tony Visconti(?) was explaining how they had to bounce some of the tracks destructively when recording 'heroes' and how they recorded all the instruments with effects so there was no going back because that's how Bowie liked it.

Undo is a convenience to some but also a great enabler of indecision at the same time. I could live without it.

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

I don't get the inevitability argument. Plenty of apps, plenty of processes don't have undo and we don't bat an eyelid. All I'm saying is that I don't see what the big deal is. You have this massive brain that can organise and work with many different concepts, undo is pretty insignificant when you think about it.

I think this is a true 'agree to disagree' thing. For me undo is anything but insignificant and if anything I feel a little jealous that you feel that way and I don't, but there it is.

rickwaugh

Yup, if it works for you @jocphone, that's good. For me, I just find too often that I have somehow managed to not to do what I intended. This is an extremely complicated environment, and I love my safety nets. There is no more sickening feeling in this hobby of ours then sitting and staring at my project, going, "wtf happened."

Jocphone

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Jocphone said:

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

@rickwaugh said:
Lol. Comparing real life to recording is a bit of a stretch. A DAW without an undo is useless. Tough to experiment with changes, in particular destructive ones, without being able to revert.

Not at all. Many experimental pieces of music have been created without the aid of an undo function.

That recent video where Tony Visconti(?) was explaining how they had to bounce some of the tracks destructively when recording 'heroes' and how they recorded all the instruments with effects so there was no going back because that's how Bowie liked it.

Undo is a convenience to some but also a great enabler of indecision at the same time. I could live without it.

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

I don't get the inevitability argument. Plenty of apps, plenty of processes don't have undo and we don't bat an eyelid. All I'm saying is that I don't see what the big deal is. You have this massive brain that can organise and work with many different concepts, undo is pretty insignificant when you think about it.

I think this is a true 'agree to disagree' thing. For me undo is anything but insignificant and if anything I feel a little jealous that you feel that way and I don't, but there it is.

Really? what would happen if you didn't have undo in your apps? Would you make worse music? Would you stop making music?

I can't say I really care that people agree or disagree but it seems overblown the thought that peoples lives may be ruined by the lack of this one feature.

JohnnyGoodyear

@Jocphone said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Jocphone said:

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

@rickwaugh said:
Lol. Comparing real life to recording is a bit of a stretch. A DAW without an undo is useless. Tough to experiment with changes, in particular destructive ones, without being able to revert.

Not at all. Many experimental pieces of music have been created without the aid of an undo function.

That recent video where Tony Visconti(?) was explaining how they had to bounce some of the tracks destructively when recording 'heroes' and how they recorded all the instruments with effects so there was no going back because that's how Bowie liked it.

Undo is a convenience to some but also a great enabler of indecision at the same time. I could live without it.

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

I don't get the inevitability argument. Plenty of apps, plenty of processes don't have undo and we don't bat an eyelid. All I'm saying is that I don't see what the big deal is. You have this massive brain that can organise and work with many different concepts, undo is pretty insignificant when you think about it.

I think this is a true 'agree to disagree' thing. For me undo is anything but insignificant and if anything I feel a little jealous that you feel that way and I don't, but there it is.

Really? what would happen if you didn't have undo in your apps? Would you make worse music? Would you stop making music?

I can't say I really care that people agree or disagree but it seems overblown the thought that peoples lives may be ruined by the lack of this one feature.

Po.

Jocphone

@rickwaugh said:
Yup, if it works for you @jocphone, that's good. For me, I just find too often that I have somehow managed to not to do what I intended. This is an extremely complicated environment, and I love my safety nets. There is no more sickening feeling in this hobby of ours then sitting and staring at my project, going, "wtf happened."

No I do get it. I'm just interested in exploring what would happen if that safety net was taken away. I kinda like a little danger.

And full disclosure: I've just returned from a happily, slight drunken valentines night so I may be a little more feisty than usual

Jocphone

Po.

Yes I know @JohnnyGoodyear but please see the end of my answer to @rickwaugh for a bit more context

rickwaugh

@Jocphone said:

@rickwaugh said:
Yup, if it works for you @jocphone, that's good. For me, I just find too often that I have somehow managed to not to do what I intended. This is an extremely complicated environment, and I love my safety nets. There is no more sickening feeling in this hobby of ours then sitting and staring at my project, going, "wtf happened."

No I do get it. I'm just interested in exploring what would happen if that safety net was taken away. I kinda like a little danger.

And full disclosure: I've just returned from a happily, slight drunken valentines night so I may be a little more feisty than usual

It's all good. Fully understand where you're coming from.

lovadamusic

@Jocphone said:

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

@rickwaugh said:
Lol. Comparing real life to recording is a bit of a stretch. A DAW without an undo is useless. Tough to experiment with changes, in particular destructive ones, without being able to revert.

Not at all. Many experimental pieces of music have been created without the aid of an undo function.

That recent video where Tony Visconti(?) was explaining how they had to bounce some of the tracks destructively when recording 'heroes' and how they recorded all the instruments with effects so there was no going back because that's how Bowie liked it.

Undo is a convenience to some but also a great enabler of indecision at the same time. I could live without it.

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

I don't get the inevitability argument. Plenty of apps, plenty of processes don't have undo and we don't bat an eyelid. All I'm saying is that I don't see what the big deal is. You have this massive brain that can organise and work with many different concepts, undo is pretty insignificant when you think about it.

If the Undo doesn't do it for you, that's cool. But a computer environment isn't the same as "other life," so that's irrelevant to me. On a computer, with a twitch of a misplaced finger, work can go down the drain, and I'd rather have a way to get that work back. On a computer, we're in a virtual world where we can explore alternatives quickly and without real cost. Can I get by without Undo? I'm not that young. I've lived without Undo more than with it. I buy digital because it offers new possibilities, not to simply recreate what I've already got.

theconnactic

You guys are missing my point when I said @Jocphone is (unintentionally, I presume) is spinning this big time for Steinberg - which he by the way continues to do in a manner that most professional PR's would envy.

Summarising: Cubasis has undo but it ins't reliable. Not only because it doesn't always work, but because sometimes it completely messes with your project beyond repair. And this is happening across several versions of Cubasis. This kind of instability, and the silence of the developers about it, makes me think twice before recommending this app, even if it was for free (which is not, and until a few days ago it used to cost the same as Auria Pro).

So yes, regarding of your recording philosophy, Cubasis should be considered with a grain of salt. If you don't like undoing things, automating things, non-destructive recording or any other idiosyncrasy, at least you can have your way with Auria Pro and MTS - gosh, even with Garageband.

theconnactic

P.S.: I did a little rhyme before, but edited my post after re-reading it, since some could feel offended with it, and that is never my intention.

Jocphone

@theconnactic said:
You guys are missing my point when I said @Jocphone is (unintentionally, I presume) is spinning this big time for Steinberg - which he by the way continues to do in a manner that most professional PR's would envy.

I wasn't really talking about Cubasis. Sure there's a bug, and Sternberg could do with learning to be more transparent with their users but I was trying to discuss people's dependency on undo in general.

Seems funny that I could use a program all this time and not have any problems whereas others keep hitting this button that randomly erases all their work. Logic alone would say stop using this button but then maybe that forms part of my approach to using software, If something doesn't work how I want then I stop using it.

FM4 was flaky for me inside Cubasis so I switched to using other synths. It's a shame as I liked FM4 but there is so much choice, I can go a different route and continue working with less pain.

Jocphone

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

@lovadamusic said:

...

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

I don't get the inevitability argument. Plenty of apps, plenty of processes don't have undo and we don't bat an eyelid. All I'm saying is that I don't see what the big deal is. You have this massive brain that can organise and work with many different concepts, undo is pretty insignificant when you think about it.

If the Undo doesn't do it for you, that's cool. But a computer environment isn't the same as "other life," so that's irrelevant to me. On a computer, with a twitch of a misplaced finger, work can go down the drain, and I'd rather have a way to get that work back. On a computer, we're in a virtual world where we can explore alternatives quickly and without real cost. Can I get by without Undo? I'm not that young. I've lived without Undo more than with it. I buy digital because it offers new possibilities, not to simply recreate what I've already got.

Like I said to @theconnactic if something you do causes you pain, stop doing it. (unless you enjoy pain)

Gadget had no undo (I think?) when I spent the best part of a year working with it. This never stopped me exploring alternatives with it. In fact, as I mentioned many times on the forum, Gadget's limitations spurred much creativity for me and I know other people feel the same.

I reckon anyone could cause much greater catastrophes in the real world with the twitch of a misplaced finger with no way of recovering. But we generally don't, we learn to control our environment and adopt strategies that work for us based on the faculties and resources available to us. As humans we learn to adapt. I don't see why this should be any different when using software on an iPad.

Jocphone

@theconnactic said:
P.S.: I did a little rhyme before, but edited my post after re-reading it, since some could feel offended with it, and that is never my intention.

Did you undo it?

Jocphone

@Lady_App_titude said:
Life without undo? Back in the day we had a word for that -- "tape". Been there. No desire to go back.

I don't know. You hit play and record and go for it. The result of those few minutes of blind panic crossed with inspiration could result in utter garbage or your best performance ever. What could be more thrilling?

lovadamusic

@Jocphone said:

Seems funny that I could use a program all this time and not have any problems whereas others keep hitting this button that randomly erases all their work. Logic alone would say stop using this button but then maybe that forms part of my approach to using software, If something doesn't work how I want then I stop using it.

I think that's great you don't ever miss Undo. You must be more agile of both hand and mind. I've erased or changed everything I have selected in Gadget and then, oops, I didn't mean to do that, or I change my mind and, well, sorry, too late. It's not the end of the world, and it's not all my work, but even something that can be redone in a minute is a minute to think unflattering thoughts of the programmers at Korg rather than on the music. So if any developers are here, and might be led to believe that Undo is not appreciated, I state my case.

@Jocphone said:

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

@lovadamusic said:

...

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

I don't get the inevitability argument. Plenty of apps, plenty of processes don't have undo and we don't bat an eyelid. All I'm saying is that I don't see what the big deal is. You have this massive brain that can organise and work with many different concepts, undo is pretty insignificant when you think about it.

If the Undo doesn't do it for you, that's cool. But a computer environment isn't the same as "other life," so that's irrelevant to me. On a computer, with a twitch of a misplaced finger, work can go down the drain, and I'd rather have a way to get that work back. On a computer, we're in a virtual world where we can explore alternatives quickly and without real cost. Can I get by without Undo? I'm not that young. I've lived without Undo more than with it. I buy digital because it offers new possibilities, not to simply recreate what I've already got.

Like I said to @theconnactic if something you do causes you pain, stop doing it. (unless you enjoy pain)

Gadget had no undo (I think?) when I spent the best part of a year working with it. This never stopped me exploring alternatives with it. In fact, as I mentioned many times on the forum, Gadget's limitations spurred much creativity for me and I know other people feel the same.

I reckon anyone could cause much greater catastrophes in the real world with the twitch of a misplaced finger with no way of recovering. But we generally don't, we learn to control our environment and adopt strategies that work for us based on the faculties and resources available to us. As humans we learn to adapt. I don't see why this should be any different when using software on an iPad.

I've enjoyed Gadget as well. Not my point. I think it's great you don't ever miss Undo. You must be more agile of both hand and mind. I've erased or changed everything I have selected in Gadget and then, oops, I didn't mean to do that, or I change my mind and, well, sorry, too late. It's not the end of the world, and it's not all my work, but even something that can be redone in a minute is a minute to think unflattering thoughts of the programmers at Korg rather than on the music. So if any developers are here, and might be led to believe that Undo is not appreciated, I state my case.

Jocphone

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

Seems funny that I could use a program all this time and not have any problems whereas others keep hitting this button that randomly erases all their work. Logic alone would say stop using this button but then maybe that forms part of my approach to using software, If something doesn't work how I want then I stop using it.

I think that's great you don't ever miss Undo. You must be more agile of both hand and mind. I've erased or changed everything I have selected in Gadget and then, oops, I didn't mean to do that, or I change my mind and, well, sorry, too late. It's not the end of the world, and it's not all my work, but even something that can be redone in a minute is a minute to think unflattering thoughts of the programmers at Korg rather than on the music. So if any developers are here, and might be led to believe that Undo is not appreciated, I state my case.

I'm not sure that I can claim any greater dexterity in either. This kind of thing is interesting to me though. Maybe it's something to do with my art training but I consider the process itself to be part of the music making experience. You can achieve quite unexpected results by limiting your workflow in counter-intuitive ways, which many music artists have explored and is something I find quite fascinating.

Also there is something quite refreshing/inspiring about apps with simpler interfaces and that is why I was suggesting that removing things from Cubasis might be the way forward. But I realise 'less features' is never going to be a selling point. Still apps like Figure, Auxy, Gadget etc.. gain a lot of supporters and I think this is mainly due to this. I bought Klimper the other day, even though I have a stack of keyboard and chord controller apps, but it has a very simple interface and within minutes I was constructing chord/melody combinations that I wouldn't have otherwise. ditto the new navichord.

mschenkel.it

FYI: Thanks for your consideration by Venetian Snares is a straight-to-the-tape album, with no multi-tracking, just a stereo out bounced to disk.

I enjoy myself the chance to undo but I also have to admit the redo philosophy trains you as a musician/instrument player rather than being a programmer. And iOS is filled with performance oriented stuff.

Gratouilli

I don't understand all the talks about the "undo" in Cubasis... I don't use it and I don't feel the need to, Steinberg could delete this fonction I wouldn't care. BUT, ONE thing often keeps me away from Cubasis is the midi editing. Always have to go up the screen to select the pen then the eraser then the pen again then and then and then... really drives me mad and is, IMHO, much more counter productive than a non working "undo" option.

LFS

Hi all,

Cubasis is on sale to celebrate something great to arrive very soon with you!

Due to a iTunes Connect issue we’ve had to cut the decision to reduce the price “earlier” or “after” the Cubasis / Cubasis LE related IAP reductions soon to follow, and have chosen “earlier” to meet with our customers demands.

Next to the sunshine I’ve noticed some grey dark clouds reading through your messages.

Cubasis is made by a very small team of creative professionals (majoritiy are musicians, btw) and is aimed to support you in capturing your ideas the fastest possible way and to polish these to perfection with ease (with the additional option to import your projects with Cubase).

Cubasis is not about adding unusable features, instead usability has a strong and important factor for us in providing you best possible workflows paired with rolling in highly requested feature requests.

Let me give you a simple example looking at Cubasis’ on-board keyboard here:
Use the same keyboard to play internal instruments or external app instruments, zoom in / out or change its height and adjust it at your wish to comfortably record your performance.

With Cubasis we also do our best to keep perfect balance between adding new features, improvements and fixes to match with our users’ expectations the best possible way.

Depending on the level of difficulty and possible side efffects some issues are solvable rapidly, others (undo is a good, but also painful example) give our engineers similar headaches than you, having to deal with it. Regarding other problems we have to rely on our partners to improve their technologies we make use of.

If you experience issues, it is most helpful for us to have reproducible step by step descriptions in order to evaluate them and to provide solutions asap,

Please allow me to close by pointing you to Sonic Lab’s UR22mkII review video, referred to me some months ago.

In this episode Gaz and Nick starts to review Steinberg’s latest audio interface quickly followed by a very impressive full blown Cubasis recording session (the fun begins at 3:04).

While music taste might be different to some, to me this clip demonstrates perfectly what making music should be about:
Joy, passion and creativity.

We will maintain to provide you with the best user experience using Cubasis while ironing out its quirks, and hope you like what you see very soon!

Best wishes
Lars

LFS

Hi all,

Regarding the UNDO issue:
It would be of great help for us, if you could provide me with a short video clip (download link via PM) that visualises the steps and demonstrates the issue. That way there is a very good chance, our engineers can find a solution to the problem.

Thanks again
Lars

studs1966

Thanks Lars, & nice one Gaz

Tritonman

Great to know Lars! I had a hunch that the best iOS Daw for me was soon going to be better still. Keep up the great work and I look forward to the upcoming release. Oh, and no problems with undo here for the record. In fact it is the rock solid build of Cubasis that I find so much comfort in. It just works well always and does so very well for me at least.
A DAW with all of the features it has for such a great price is really a remarkable development actually.

Jocphone

Thanks for bringing us some clarification and news of an exciting update Lars @LFS. People on this forum do get heated up about the software sometimes but it only shows how passionate we are about the great software yourselves and other developers provide us with on iOS.

Crabman

@Jocphone said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@Jocphone said:

@lovadamusic said:

@Jocphone said:

@rickwaugh said:
Lol. Comparing real life to recording is a bit of a stretch. A DAW without an undo is useless. Tough to experiment with changes, in particular destructive ones, without being able to revert.

Not at all. Many experimental pieces of music have been created without the aid of an undo function.

That recent video where Tony Visconti(?) was explaining how they had to bounce some of the tracks destructively when recording 'heroes' and how they recorded all the instruments with effects so there was no going back because that's how Bowie liked it.

Undo is a convenience to some but also a great enabler of indecision at the same time. I could live without it.

I haven't used Cubasis and maybe never will. I was shocked when I saw that Gadget didn't have an Undo. I live without it, but it's made me unhappy in ways that having an Undo would never do. I like the app anyway. But no Undo? Really? Kinda like starting the car at night and no headlights coming on. What year is this? Would I be better off with a horse and buggy?

I don't get the inevitability argument. Plenty of apps, plenty of processes don't have undo and we don't bat an eyelid. All I'm saying is that I don't see what the big deal is. You have this massive brain that can organise and work with many different concepts, undo is pretty insignificant when you think about it.

I think this is a true 'agree to disagree' thing. For me undo is anything but insignificant and if anything I feel a little jealous that you feel that way and I don't, but there it is.

Really? what would happen if you didn't have undo in your apps? Would you make worse music? Would you stop making music?

I can't say I really care that people agree or disagree but it seems overblown the thought that peoples lives may be ruined by the lack of this one feature.

Undo let my try out things (conplex stuff with more steps involved)that i otherwise won't do for example.It's great that you can live without this function but i guess you should just accept that a lot of other people (and i assume it's by far the majority)are happy to have this.It's a common standard in DAWs and even Garageband has it.For good reason.cutting/trimming audiofiles is really nothing that"enhance my creativity"if i have to repeat the steps.

High5denied

I screw up a lot, no undo/redo would not be a good thing for me.