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Can't synthesize, won't synthesize!

1246

Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @MrNezumi said:
    I learned the basics of subtractive synthesis on a Juno-60, but I really got it down when I got an Oberheim Matrix-6. No knobs, a small LED screen and a modulation matrix. It forced me to think about what I was doing and it offered seemingly endless possibilities. When I got the much knobbed Waldorf XTk I had no trouble getting the hang of wave table synthesis because I fully understood modulation sources and could apply them to the wave tables.

    Jealous loved the Matrix 6. I had an XTk. I used it more than my Alesis Andromeda.

  • JocphoneJocphone

    @Fruitbat1919 agreed. There's something quite liberating about not having presets. Forces you to understand what all the knobs do. Though I'm glad I have synths with presets as well, I usually start sounds from scratch for a new piece of music.

  • JocphoneJocphone
    edited March 2016

    @MrNezumi said:
    I learned the basics of subtractive synthesis on a Juno-60, but I really got it down when I got an Oberheim Matrix-6. No knobs, a small LED screen and a modulation matrix. It forced me to think about what I was doing and it offered seemingly endless possibilities. When I got the much knobbed Waldorf XTk I had no trouble getting the hang of wave table synthesis because I fully understood modulation sources and could apply them to the wave tables.

    I hear you. I had a Casio synth which had a very minimal lcd display and managed to coax some great sounds out of it but there is something about having the direct control via lots of knobs which is very compelling.

  • MrNezumiMrNezumi

    Oh, I totally agree - knobs rule. I got a ton of them on my modest MOTM modular. I was just saying that the lack of knobs and a clunky interface forced me to think about what I was doing and helped me master programming synths.

  • JocphoneJocphone

    @MrNezumi said:
    Oh, I totally agree - knobs rule. I got a ton of them on my modest MOTM modular. I was just saying that the lack of knobs and a clunky interface forced me to think about what I was doing and helped me master programming synths.

    Sure both approaches are valid but having that instant feedback is something I miss as I don't have any analogue synths, currently, and was sorely tempted by the odyssey.

  • AndyPlanktonAndyPlankton

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    It does surprise me that so many people, making music on iOS, don't understand substractive synthesis.

    I was lucky enough to learn on some early, and quite crude, analogue synths and gained a good understanding of what the different circuits were able to achieve. This feeling was brought back to me when I was doodling around with a Korg ARP Odyssey in a shop the other day. The one knob per function interface is a very rewarding and expressive interface.

    If you want to learn about subtractive synths, go and buy a real one, with knobs! Then live with it for a few months.

    Better still, get a synth with no memories and a wysiwyg knob setup.

    There could be worse places to start than Viking, the pages are in logical order for setting up sounds
    Osc's for getting the initial character of the sound
    Mix for getting the volume balance of the OSC's
    Filter for removing unwanted frequencies
    Env for setting the volume character - How quick the note starts, long the note plays for etc

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    It does surprise me that so many people, making music on iOS, don't understand substractive synthesis.

    I was lucky enough to learn on some early, and quite crude, analogue synths and gained a good understanding of what the different circuits were able to achieve. This feeling was brought back to me when I was doodling around with a Korg ARP Odyssey in a shop the other day. The one knob per function interface is a very rewarding and expressive interface.

    If you want to learn about subtractive synths, go and buy a real one, with knobs! Then live with it for a few months.

    Better still, get a synth with no memories and a wysiwyg knob setup.

    There could be worse places to start than Viking, the pages are in logical order for setting up sounds
    Osc's for getting the initial character of the sound
    Mix for getting the volume balance of the OSC's
    Filter for removing unwanted frequencies
    Env for setting the volume character - How quick the note starts, long the note plays for etc

    Agree. Use it in MidiSTEPs and its a sort of SH101 for anew age :)

  • JohnnyGoodyearJohnnyGoodyear
    edited March 2016

    @AndyPlankton said:

    There could be worse places to start than Viking, the pages are in logical order for setting up sounds
    Osc's for getting the initial character of the sound
    Mix for getting the volume balance of the OSC's
    Filter for removing unwanted frequencies
    Env for setting the volume character - How quick the note starts, long the note plays for etc

    Well, I'm a synth dolt and this is the most concise advice (for a dolt :)) I've seen, so will steal an hour today in the service of it. Thanks.

  • AndyPlanktonAndyPlankton

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    There could be worse places to start than Viking, the pages are in logical order for setting up sounds
    Osc's for getting the initial character of the sound
    Mix for getting the volume balance of the OSC's
    Filter for removing unwanted frequencies
    Env for setting the volume character - How quick the note starts, long the note plays for etc

    Well, I'm a synth dolt and this is the most concise advice (for a dolt :)) I've seen, so will steal an hour today in the service of it. Thanks.

    For the best results you need a start point, I would suggest the following so that the Filter/Env/Mod are not affecting your sound until you want them to

    Set Amount on both modwheel and bus to 0
    Set both Env's to be 0 attack, 0 decay, full sustain, 0 release - set amount to 0 (no effect) - This will mean Env has no effect
    Set filter to Dual LP and Cutoff to 12000 - Fully open - This will mean filter has no effect

    When you come to work with the envelopes, AMP controls the volume of the sound over time, and Filter controls the amount of filter over time.

  • JocphoneJocphone

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Blah blah

    Better still, get a synth with no memories and a wysiwyg knob setup.

    There could be worse places to start than Viking, the pages are in logical order for setting up sounds
    Osc's for getting the initial character of the sound
    Mix for getting the volume balance of the OSC's
    Filter for removing unwanted frequencies
    Env for setting the volume character - How quick the note starts, long the note plays for etc

    That gives a reasonable starting point, I guess, but there is so much more to these elements and their interaction as well, also modulation is one of missing fundamentals here. That is why I think a hardware synth, where you can tweak any or several parameters at once gives you a better chance of getting a feel for how your changes affect the sound.

  • JohnnyGoodyearJohnnyGoodyear

    @Jocphone said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Blah blah

    Better still, get a synth with no memories and a wysiwyg knob setup.

    There could be worse places to start than Viking, the pages are in logical order for setting up sounds
    Osc's for getting the initial character of the sound
    Mix for getting the volume balance of the OSC's
    Filter for removing unwanted frequencies
    Env for setting the volume character - How quick the note starts, long the note plays for etc

    That gives a reasonable starting point, I guess, but there is so much more to these elements and their interaction as well, also modulation is one of missing fundamentals here. That is why I think a hardware synth, where you can tweak any or several parameters at once gives you a better chance of getting a feel for how your changes affect the sound.

    Let the little people take baby steps without scaring the horses too much :)

  • JohnnyGoodyearJohnnyGoodyear

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    There could be worse places to start than Viking, the pages are in logical order for setting up sounds
    Osc's for getting the initial character of the sound
    Mix for getting the volume balance of the OSC's
    Filter for removing unwanted frequencies
    Env for setting the volume character - How quick the note starts, long the note plays for etc

    Well, I'm a synth dolt and this is the most concise advice (for a dolt :)) I've seen, so will steal an hour today in the service of it. Thanks.

    For the best results you need a start point, I would suggest the following so that the Filter/Env/Mod are not affecting your sound until you want them to

    Set Amount on both modwheel and bus to 0
    Set both Env's to be 0 attack, 0 decay, full sustain, 0 release - set amount to 0 (no effect) - This will mean Env has no effect
    Set filter to Dual LP and Cutoff to 12000 - Fully open - This will mean filter has no effect

    When you come to work with the envelopes, AMP controls the volume of the sound over time, and Filter controls the amount of filter over time.

    Thanks. Will report back with something screechy :)

  • AndyPlanktonAndyPlankton
    edited March 2016

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    Thanks. Will report back with something screechy :)

    When screechy becomes squelchy is when the fun really starts :D

  • High5deniedHigh5denied

    Finally Got through a quick read of this thread. Lot's of good stuff in here!

    I just don't think I have the time to fiddle with all the knobs and things in synths. Let alone actually "learn" how to make sense of it. As an example, when I bring up Tera Synth, and scroll through the screens of things that one can tweak. It seems like it goes on forever! And that's just one synth, out of the bajillion I have lol.

    I like browsing presets, and usually I can find sounds I like. Also, when one downloads user presets that someone else made for a said synth, technically those are just more presets? But they are user made presets, and therefore.......Anyway, WTH am I trying to say. After one synthesizes, at some point it crosses the threshold and becomes a preset, right?

    So, everyone just cast your synthesized presets upon me, and I, as a guitar player will make great use out of them! I promise. ;)

    I did find strng and Zedsynth rather easy to make a whole slew of presets. And Laplace. So, maybe I have synthesized? A bit? If anyone wants them, let me know and I'l send em your way, I think they sound cool.

  • skiphuntskiphunt

    @Nathan said:

    @mschenkel.it said:
    It is a chain. There is no today without yesterday and both live in a perfect harmony.

    True. You should really put that in a song, if you haven't already.

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Nathan said:

    @mschenkel.it said:
    It is a chain. There is no today without yesterday and both live in a perfect harmony.

    True. You should really put that in a song, if you haven't already.

    AB Forum just became the place to go when you get writers block :D

    +1 that's a very good line about today/yesterday & harmony :)

  • JocphoneJocphone

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @Jocphone said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Blah blah

    Better still, get a synth with no memories and a wysiwyg knob setup.

    There could be worse places to start than Viking, the pages are in logical order for setting up sounds
    Osc's for getting the initial character of the sound
    Mix for getting the volume balance of the OSC's
    Filter for removing unwanted frequencies
    Env for setting the volume character - How quick the note starts, long the note plays for etc

    That gives a reasonable starting point, I guess, but there is so much more to these elements and their interaction as well, also modulation is one of missing fundamentals here. That is why I think a hardware synth, where you can tweak any or several parameters at once gives you a better chance of getting a feel for how your changes affect the sound.

    Let the little people take baby steps without scaring the horses too much :)

    OK, but I still think you would learn quicker from a Volca or a Waldorf Rocket or similar.

  • Salamander69Salamander69
    edited March 2016

    Hi Vorgon. I want to acknowledge the spirit of your original post, which I took to be the 'coming out' of an acceptance that you will (probably) never really 'get it' about such magical things as oscilators and busses, and that the acceptance of such a state of quick fixes and lack of obvious learning, as you lurch along from app to app, is in itself strangely liberating. Likewise for appaholism - though I'll say that this can have more serious consequences, if we run too far amuck in that playground, even at "pocket money prices" :). Ditto for me on that too.

    Yes, sometimes an acceptance can paradoxically leave the door open to positive change, and I can see that some of the kind folk's responses here are still generously tryng to slip in some synth education along the way, but I say let us app flitters and tragics be honest with ourselves and stand strangely proud in the admittance that this is quite likely all that we'll ever be. In that acceptance, we may carry a little less shame and our fun can be even a little more fun, for what it's worth. And that's OK! :)

    Now I really need to let go of my forum-fix for tonight and get a little shut-eye, so I can do it all again, just for fun, another day...

  • JocphoneJocphone

    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Jocphone said:
    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

    Yes I have been considering this instead of my intended modular for some hardware goodness.....o it's never ending.....maybe I should just buy a guitar and learn that :p

  • JocphoneJocphone

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

    Yes I have been considering this instead of my intended modular for some hardware goodness.....o it's never ending.....maybe I should just buy a guitar and learn that :p

    Something like this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthAxe

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Jocphone said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

    Yes I have been considering this instead of my intended modular for some hardware goodness.....o it's never ending.....maybe I should just buy a guitar and learn that :p

    Something like this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthAxe

    Or this http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid43457/cid671/vox-starstream-type-1-in-black-frame-with-semigloss-red-body.asp

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

    Yes I have been considering this instead of my intended modular for some hardware goodness.....o it's never ending.....maybe I should just buy a guitar and learn that :p

    Something like this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthAxe

    Or this http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid43457/cid671/vox-starstream-type-1-in-black-frame-with-semigloss-red-body.asp

    Or maybe just an old school guitar with a shed load of pedals and an amp that I can plug my iPad into and become a one man band :p

  • AndyPlanktonAndyPlankton

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

    Yes I have been considering this instead of my intended modular for some hardware goodness.....o it's never ending.....maybe I should just buy a guitar and learn that :p

    Something like this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthAxe

    Or this http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid43457/cid671/vox-starstream-type-1-in-black-frame-with-semigloss-red-body.asp

    Or maybe just an old school guitar with a shed load of pedals and an amp that I can plug my iPad into and become a one man band :p

    Tonestack :)

    As well as real guitar and bass I also have one of these which is cool for playing synths in a guitar style

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

    Yes I have been considering this instead of my intended modular for some hardware goodness.....o it's never ending.....maybe I should just buy a guitar and learn that :p

    Something like this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthAxe

    Or this http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid43457/cid671/vox-starstream-type-1-in-black-frame-with-semigloss-red-body.asp

    Or maybe just an old school guitar with a shed load of pedals and an amp that I can plug my iPad into and become a one man band :p

    Tonestack :)

    As well as real guitar and bass I also have one of these which is cool for playing synths in a guitar style

    http://www.geekalerts.com/u/ION-All-Star-Guitar-Controller-iPad.jpg

    Or this :p

  • MrNezumiMrNezumi

    I think that synthesis is just a small part of what the original post is actually about. Many of us try to wear a lot of hats at the same time: keyboardist, synth programmer, guitarist, drummer, engineer, producer, mixer, lyricist, master engineer, singer, etc... It is nearly impossible to do all of them well. If using presets gets you past one of your obstacles there is no shame in that. I love making patches on different synths and digging in deep. I'm not a big fan of all the MIDI stuff. Sure, I could buckle down and learn it, but my free time is precious little and I'd rather use it doing other stuff. I think a lot of app buying is based on the hope that the new app will somehow help the buyer overcome a shortcoming. I'm buying less and less on that premise. In fact I'm buying less and less everything. I have my shortcomings in the recording world (and real world) and I'm OK with that. I have my strengths and I try my best to use those rather than get hung up on the parts I haven't quite gotten.

  • JocphoneJocphone

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

    Yes I have been considering this instead of my intended modular for some hardware goodness.....o it's never ending.....maybe I should just buy a guitar and learn that :p

    Something like this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthAxe

    Or this http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid43457/cid671/vox-starstream-type-1-in-black-frame-with-semigloss-red-body.asp

    Or maybe just an old school guitar with a shed load of pedals and an amp that I can plug my iPad into and become a one man band :p

    Tonestack :)

    As well as real guitar and bass I also have one of these which is cool for playing synths in a guitar style

    http://www.geekalerts.com/u/ION-All-Star-Guitar-Controller-iPad.jpg

    Or this :p

    At the moment I have little time for anything except my Little Martin. Only 1 preset but I love the simplicity :wink:

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Jocphone said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Just watched Marc Doty's run through of the new Korg Minilogue which could really be seen as a masterclass in subtractive synthesis:

    Some parts are very specific to the Korg but it's still a great demonstration of what can be achieved, and how (5-7 videos) with explanations of the core elements of this type of synthesiser.

    The only problem with these videos is that you may end up lusting after a Minilogue :wink:

    Yes I have been considering this instead of my intended modular for some hardware goodness.....o it's never ending.....maybe I should just buy a guitar and learn that :p

    Something like this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthAxe

    Or this http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid43457/cid671/vox-starstream-type-1-in-black-frame-with-semigloss-red-body.asp

    Or maybe just an old school guitar with a shed load of pedals and an amp that I can plug my iPad into and become a one man band :p

    Tonestack :)

    As well as real guitar and bass I also have one of these which is cool for playing synths in a guitar style

    http://www.geekalerts.com/u/ION-All-Star-Guitar-Controller-iPad.jpg

    Or this :p

    At the moment I have little time for anything except my Little Martin. Only 1 preset but I love the simplicity :wink:

    You have a name for the little fella ;)

  • Salamander69Salamander69

    @MrNezumi said:
    I think that synthesis is just a small part of what the original post is actually about. Many of us try to wear a lot of hats at the same time: keyboardist, synth programmer, guitarist, drummer, engineer, producer, mixer, lyricist, master engineer, singer, etc... It is nearly impossible to do all of them well. If using presets gets you past one of your obstacles there is no shame in that. I love making patches on different synths and digging in deep. I'm not a big fan of all the MIDI stuff. Sure, I could buckle down and learn it, but my free time is precious little and I'd rather use it doing other stuff. I think a lot of app buying is based on the hope that the new app will somehow help the buyer overcome a shortcoming. I'm buying less and less on that premise. In fact I'm buying less and less everything. I have my shortcomings in the recording world (and real world) and I'm OK with that. I have my strengths and I try my best to use those rather than get hung up on the parts I haven't quite gotten.

    Nicely put!

  • JocphoneJocphone

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    At the moment I have little time for anything except my Little Martin. Only 1 preset but I love the simplicity :wink:

    You have a name for the little fella ;)

    Heh heh, I'm not the namer https://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/little-martin/lx1-little-martin/

  • AndyPlanktonAndyPlankton

    @Jocphone said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    At the moment I have little time for anything except my Little Martin. Only 1 preset but I love the simplicity :wink:

    You have a name for the little fella ;)

    Heh heh, I'm not the namer https://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/little-martin/lx1-little-martin/

    They make some nice guitars. I've not got an acoustic at the moment, and I do miss playing one.

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