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Comments
@High5denied
I like the new app route for some apps too when they get a big upgrade, keeps it all clean. I'm still on Auria, but I think Pro is well worth the money and Rim still updated my version for free!
If we could sell our unused apps to another person (like it's a common thing with plug-in licences) it would be great too..... But that will never happen too!
Demos? Maybe.
I think the app store like it is works just for consumers and developers of casual games and a few other things but everything else is lost in the huge store.
For a suggestion of what developers of music apps make, here's a link to Jakob Haq's interview with Jonatan Liljedahl, in case you haven't already read it.
http://thesoundtestroom.com/jonatan-liljedahl-developer-interview/
Jonatan gets by by living an extremely spartan life:
"We live on the country side, renting a small place, heating the house with firewood, buy stuff on second hand, even eating homegrown food (at least in the summer)"
And the apps only take care of half of his bills--he has to do paid jobs for other developers on apps like Gestrument.
Knowing this, as soon as I downloaded AUM I downloaded his package of 4 AUFX effects. I don't really need them--although I'm sure I will have fun with them--but I wanted to give him some money for the gift of AUM at half price. For the gift of AUM period.
We're all in this together. Not only is he providing apps for very little cash, he is making himself constantly available on boards like this to help people use them and to get ideas for ways to improve them and add features.
His apps are a labor of love on his part. He's not going to get rich. We should appreciate this and the best way is to help him continue making great things we use every day by buying his stuff. And that goes for Rim and all the other hard-working lone developers out there.
That's true.... But then even most here seems to lurking for sales! Buy it for full price if you like it!
Let’s try pushing it to the extreme.
Have app manufacturers release new apps each week.
One per week.
These apps sell for 10p.
One app per week, 10p each.
No sales or special offers, just a new app each week, and they only cost 10p each.
What would be the outcome?
It must be deviating when Apple adopts an indie developer's original app idea and integrates into their os. Like some photo apps mentioned, IAA vs AudioBus and @SecretBaseDesign 's Apollo.
Trying to put myself into the shoes of an independent developer, as one person or part of a small group making a sophisticated niche-type app, I don't see any other way to go about it. All the work that must have gone into making Auria Pro. I'm supposed to give that as a free update to everyone who bought the original, a substantial chunk of the probable market for the app?
If you're cool with big apps made only by big companies who don't rely on mobile app revenue, then stick to that. If Apple or Korg puts out a great app for cheap, I'm also thankful and go for it. But I think Auria Pro offers something more as a DAW on iOS, and we might not have it if Rim had no option for making it a new purchase. He's not Apple or Korg, and I hope that passionate independents can continue to find a way to survive in the AppStore system.
There is nothing to add here.It was disgusting and shameful to see how much flak Rim got back at AP launch.
I've always believed that the iOS app world can only be measured relatively: for every iOS tool what other version / platform / method exists and how much does that cost both financially as well as the harder to measure aspects like mobility (iOS vs larger devices and desktop computers).
It's almost a given that iOS apps are a cost fraction of desktop counterpart programs / plugins or nearest-equivalents (if they exist at all) and that's the metric that guides my buying decisions.
The iOS world is one of the lowest cost means of making music and in truth developers can charge whatever they seem fit and aren't obligated to defend that logic. They may adjust pricing according to market value and supply/demand but in what other world are The Price Of Things discussed consumer-should-dictate-pricetag style?
If any product or service is beyond your financial means typically one saves up or bypasses the purchase but the idea of discussing it in a victim-therapy way doesn't seem to serve any public purpose. Buy what you can afford, get on with making things and be thankful that you have the privilege to partake in this plethora of toy-store iOS goodness at all.
Ultimately, the market decides, but it's difficult to know what an app "should" cost. What it should cost produces the maximum profit for the developer, revenue being one form of profit. There's a sweet spot somewhere where the price is right. The better the consumer understands the value of a product, and why it costs what it costs, the more informed decision can be made.
With iOS apps, there's a battle going on, the winners in the market to be determined by what consumers buy. Do mobile music-makers understand it from the perspective of the developer? Do they know what's involved in creating a complex app? Do they understand what the independent developer is up against? Outside looking in, I try to understand. I don't think it's "disgusting and shameful" to expect too much from a developer as much as it's ignorance and having been given a false set of expectations. We try to understand the Appstore as if it's business as usual, but in many ways it's not.
Word
I said "back at AP launch" and that WAS simply what i said...disgusting and shameful.Just disrespectful.You said you haven't been arround at this time so how would you know?Or were you here?
There is no "Auria cult" by the way,only your disappointment about the Auria pro pricing (and upgrade path) maybe.I still remember very well how you expressed it in the AUM thread.It was MUCH less polite than you are doing it here now.But you were not only complaining about AP's price in that thread.
So please forgive me if i don't give too much on your opinion.I've seen how you think about appstore pricing.
Imo AP is one of the (if not THE) most advanced,most ambitious and most professional peace of music software in the app store.Studio standard level.And one of the best support you can get.Period.
If you can't or won't afford that,fine,just move on then.But don't put the boot in and call others "Auria fanboys" just because they have no problem to accept that quality software and support cost money.
False equivalence. Benefit sanctions, bedroom tax etc cause real suffering. All that's happened to you is that you've not bought an app you seem to dislike anyway. To me that is an emotive and unreasonable argument that bears no relation to logic.
A difference of opinion is fine, but when you make arguments that have this kind of emotive dimension (calling devs greedy, comparing other forum members to right-wing hate figures etc) you come across as a troll. Stick to facts, keep emotion out of your arguments and the quality of the debate will increase enormously.
It's the discussion topic that keeps on giving!
ok back to point.
I used Auria as an example for a new release because Pro is a definite major overhaul from Auria, not just a series of fixes.
I was not involved in its coding, but I would imagine that long term, quite a bit needed changing to bring it up to a point where all the new features could be added and everything would work smoother with the latest hardware and iOS.
So the logical route is take the time needed to almost restart the app from its foundations and to make up for the time needed to do this ( time taken away from Auria upkeep), the Dev has updated Auria code too at no charge.
Yes in a perfect world Devs would be able to keep everything up to date all the time. But this is not a perfect world. My opinion is that a choice was made where best resources could be spent for long term improvement of the app.
Now if this was just a small update or fixing bugs that were already there, a smaller cost would have been more appropriate. This was a major update in my opinion. Midi recording was added. Two synths were added. A sample player and a large library of samples were added. Many other features were added.
Again my opinion is that the asking price is very reasonable and that a reasonable discount offered for upgrading.
The large companies have really only dipped their toes in the iOS water, except maybe Korg. Again it's my opinion that the smaller companies or Devs have given the major spark of life to iOS music apps.
Now that it I believe it is reasonable to suggest that the iOS market is harder to make money in now than when it first started. I also believe that what many see as sustainability is just making a static profit. In business this is rarely true. Growth is needed to give enough money for future investment. Investment that may not actually make any money for many years, but protects against future stagnation or obsolescence.
Where is this capital growth and investment capital going to come from in what is a relatively small market? Then add to this the fact that the market itself is changing not only due to market forces, but Apple constantly changing the goal posts of hardware and the OS.
There are no easy answers. Some will rise and some will fall, so maybe it's best to sit back and make music and leave the politics to politicians. Do what we as musicians do best.....writing lyrics and express our angst in songs instead
Yeah Ive seen this too on there forum. its a great product but some of their fans are scary lol
Of course you have every right to buy or not buy what you like and, in fact, what else makes sense? However, this is a discussion forum. You apparently want it to be a platform to advance the idea that there was something wrong about how Auria Pro was sold, and that it turned you away from the product. When AP was released, much focus was taken away from the quality and significance of the app because people griped so much about the upgrade. On the Appstore, similar griping may have cost AP in sales. This is what some of us see as harmful to the industry of ambitious music apps on the iPad. Customers with unrealistic expectations bad-mouthing good developers. What you see as “The Cult of Auria” can just be people standing up for what they believe is right and best for the entire platform, not just for Rim. So have an opinion, express an opinion, but expect the opinion to be challenged. Unfortunately, it’s not always as civil as it should be.
Sometimes it seems like a horse is dead but just to be sure you should to kick it a few thousand more times.
[EDIT: Post deleted. In retrospect, I think DFTT
]
This horse ain’t dead. The subject of the thread. That said, AP issue was bound to raise its head. Find something else to read instead?
Nope, my name isn’t Fred.
I'm a masochist, I hope the Auria 'scandal' lasts another thousand years
I'll do what I can. Just for you.
I've never been in a cult before, I think there are some songs about it out there:
Us Auria user's, we're Just victims of the in-house drive-by
Rim say's jump, we say how high
Believin' all the lies that they're tellin' ya
Buyin' all the products that they're sellin' ya
Sorry Couldn't resist. But, I want to ask that this thread not turn into the "Auria" thread of the past. I want to keep this dialog open.
Yeah I only mentioned Auria in a case for what for myself has worked well on the App Store.
Problem is if we never mention what we think is relevant for fear of attracting those that want to call people names or generally bring back the negative arguments of the past, we might as well not discuss anything.
If you believe something about new charged for apps instead of upgrades is detrimental to the AppStore economy (the discussion at hand), then state a case and even use Auria Pro as an example if you want.
What we don't need is people bringing back the old thread arguments or calling people names if they disagree.
I recognise a need for slightly higher priced apps that cover the continued cost of iOS music app development. Agree or disagree, but at least try to avoid making it personal. This after all is just a discussion of what we think will or won't advance something we all love (or so I presume)....music apps.
Tru dat. Word....
"AppStore Economy" is what we're talking about here. Being aware of the tenuous nature of the AppStore, some of us have a genuine appreciation for the work that goes into these music apps, as well as concern for the success of those independent developers that we can tell are really investing their lives in an app.
This appreciation should not be mistaken for fanboy-ism even if it looks similar ;-)
I’ve been referred to as a cult.
…although, that could have been autocorrect.
LMAO
I would hazard a guess that the Pixite revenue chart likely reflects what is and has taken place with many medium sized and indie music app developers. The peak selling period for their wares probably took place in the first or second quarter of 2014. Unfortunately during 2015 there was likely a similar drift downwards.
At one time it took about 10 sales to get into the top 50 music ranking on the US store. Now it takes about two or three sales to achieve this -- and only about one to get into the top 100.
It remains to be seen if there are many developers left out there willing to invest 10,000+ hours in a major new app when the potential for cost recovery remains questionable. As it stands now revenue for the majority of dedicated music app developers surmounts to a tips being thrown inside an open guitar case. Sigh...
I don't get it? How does the math work out on this?
Well, maybe there are not as many music apps, so that's why such a low number of sales will push an app into the top 50?