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Comments
@lukesleepwalker yeah, I'd think so. I just wasn't sure when Seb said they're solving 'this' if that somehow meant it was somehow song oriented.
One outsider way to look at it is that they've made Link available only to the platform on which they're not competitive. iOS also does not yet have any real competition for Live so the whole OS is a complement to Live.
And, just to be clear, when I said "...lots of us are wanting something more like Ableton", I meant Ableton Live, not Link.
I have a feeling Loopy Masterpiece is going to ring 'correct' for many of us.
I'm really hoping that means what I think it means.
So are the two buses perhaps finally coming together - Audiobus and Midibus?
I'm surprised that Apple didn't put the Audiobus team on the payroll along time ago to fix these issues.
That's in the same ballpark of what I was hoping. Different pitcher though.
I believe that is the largest missing piece of the puzzle.
Minuscule hardware updates with hiked up prices.
The IPAD PRO should have 8-16gb RAM, 500GB-1TB storage. Apple would probably
charge $3000 U.S. for that. Apple will wait till 2020 to give those specs
they should allow drag and drop for moving samples from the browser to Bilbao pads,
Audio recording, AU to bring other apps into Gadget, Ableton Link and a REAL sampler, and more Gadgets
KORG made a big mistake by not continuing to support IOS 7.0 they lost money on that decision. I was NOT able to purchase the new module. Lack of backward compatibility
just like Apple.
There were a lot of good posts and there are a lot of good developers who make great apps. Unfortunately with the way that Apple currently runs things with IOS I can't foresee true app stability for users unless Apple puts the MAC OS in the iPAD
I'm sure they lost a few upgrades but I'm also sure the cost savings of not supporting OSes no longer supported by Apple more than made up for it. Sadly.
I tend to agree but I also wonder if we ask too much of these devices. I probably have more apps on my iOS devices than the sum total of all of the applications I bought or downloaded in the previous 30 years of owning computers! I mean, when you start to consider the total number of guises an iPad can take it (even if only counting music oriented apps) update breakage starts to feel a little more, I dunno, understandable?
If, instead, we were to limit our iPads to 3-5 apps I imagine it'd be plenty stable. Especially if we didn't demand those apps be able run at the same time and speak to each other via the OS. = ) Sure, one of those might die completely after an OS update but the app store is such that you could probably find a totally suitable replacement.
When you compare an iPad to, say, a stand alone digital synth, a digital multi-track recorder, a hardware drum machine with sampling, an alternative MIDI controller or a board of guitar pedals the prices are generally pretty comparable (depending, obviously). When you consider that it can be all five of those things the value proposition grows tremendously—even if it could only be five different things we're approaching 5X the value! That alone should probably make us all happy satisfied campers; instead we go and put 200 apps on the thing, essentially asking it to provide 200X value, and then wonder why it doesn't work. : ) 200X value just isn't a thing I reckon. It's like the old "Fast, good and cheap: pick two".
I'm not trying to be contrarian. Kinda talking myself through this a bit because I find parts of the ecosystem frustrating as well.
I have tried a number of times to come up with a workable, multi-app work flow that allows me to make music on my iPad with lots of different music apps.
Every time I keep coming back to just making the whole track in Gadget. I've not found a way to even come close to what I can do so quickly and easily in Gadget.
I guess using MTS with AUs and IAA was the closest I got - but the problems I had were a)no scale lock on the keyboard and piano roll and b) AUs start to crackle and there's latency on the IAAs.
I thought a combination of AUM and ModStep might provide an answer - but the reality is the setup is still too unstable and time consuming in my opinion.
Gadget is just so ergonomic - I would concur with the comments that the missing pieces are things like audio tracks, AUs, IAA in Gadget - or Auria/MTS/NanoStudio2? becoming more like Gadget.
AUM+Link have solved pretty much all of my MIDI needs, working fluidly with Audiobus to really fill my needs comprehensively. Let's see if some healthy competition can push things even further in the right direction!
Waiting for Loopy Masterpiece to solve all problems in the world...Did you notice we haven't got any news for a long time about this app...
I thought this yesterday too, @Sebastian how is master piece grown?
Think master piece + nanostudio2
And i am final.
I agree with a lot of this. I think we do ask too much sometimes.
Other times I'm glad iOS does not work like a laptop OS. Makes me look at things in a different manner.
I wonder if loopy masterpiece gets integrated to Ab3 somehow
Stripping it down to the heart of whats missing for me though is the ability to easily recall all my combinations of apps straight from say Auria or Cubasis.
That said i recently bought a microkorg (my first piece of hardware for 15 years) and it reminded me of how i use hardware within such as Ableton.
Using the microkorg helped me to appreciate iOS music making from the perspective of linking individual hardware together but in software form.
Ie: Running a drum machine using its own patterns, recording the audio as opposed to midi or saving the preset name as the track name or sampling the created sound etc. This has been made exponentially easier since Audiobus & Link.
Sensible view from 20,000 feet (however hard it is for us to remain that elevated
)
I have high hopes for masterpiece. What's interesting about Link is that it has driven me to use Live more recently.
As a guitar player, I think of all this like pedals and amps. I've always favored individual pedals over multi-effect units. And the iPad is a sweet tube combo vs laptop Ableton as my 4x12 stack.
At the end of the day, I know we live in amazing times for creating music
.
interesting analysis, The Developers of Auria continues to support older versions of IOS, they are NOT missing sales. Smart businessmen. KORG as well as other developers are missing sales. It does not cost the developer more money to support the older versions of IOS. Developers can target any recent IOS version or device when designing an app in x-code. It is a conscious decision on the developers part.
Apple has a policy of planned obsolescence.
Apple is fully aware that their IOS updates break apps
They break apps on purpose, its part of their anti piracy policy.
And their business model you see every time they launch a new version of IOS the
Hackers have to make a new Jailbreak for it. Apple plays cat and mouse with the Hackers
They release IOS7, Jailbreak, IOS8, Jailbreak, IOS9, Jailbreak, If Apple does not
keep refreshing their IOS versions their App Store business model will collapse.
Not saying that Apple does not want to add new improved functionality with each IOS release.
applications that I pay my hard earned money being broken by IOS updates for me is not understandable. When I pay for an app it should work,or I should be able to get my money back for it. If everyone who experienced would hold Apple accountable for this it would change. Apple makes lots of money through its app store annually and people lose lots of money when updating annually. it is a win lose situation. It should be fixed.
I wont even delve back into the RAM and storage issue again.
Of course it's a conscious decision, but it does cost the developer more to support older versions of iOS. Supporting older versions means more code is needed, different paths need to be taken in the code depending on version, bugs of older versions needs to be worked around, complexity grows, testing gets harder, consistency gets less (some features not available in old iOS versions), etc. Personally, as a developer I find supporting the last 2 major versions of iOS is about how much I can handle.
This is just false.
I think maybe you looking at it as if targeting a specific iOS version from within Xcode is like doing a 'Save as Word 2011' from Word 2016. It's not. At all. Sometimes, even getting an older iOS SDK to be available for targeting on a newer version of OS X is a total and complete day wasting pain the ass! Maybe if your app is one screen RSS reader or something it's in the ballpark of save-as and even then, it costs money. To some extent, that's in hard costs like test hardware (iOS 7 support means at least 3 iPads and then there are the different screen sizes...) but it's more about the cost in time. Every minute a developer spends on supporting an older OS with an ever dwindling user base is a minute they're not spending adding value to their app for the rest of the user base. Every single fork in the codebase (
if (iOS7) dothis; else if (iOS8) doThisOtherThing; else if...) costs time, is never ever as simple as I just wrote out and is like a pile of sticky sugar on the kitchen table for bugs. Each one has an actual cost in implementation time, testing time and support.Let's take the code and support headache out of it for a second and just think of how much time it takes to test changes. Take however long it takes for the app to compile and install (think several minutes). Now that has to be installed on
ntarget devices xnntarget OSes. Per change! Feasible yes. "Cost free"? Absolutely not. For some developers/products that cost might make financial sense but it's unreasonable to assume that businesses that choose not to support older OSes are doing it because they're lazy or spiteful (which is what I get from your post).Don't misunderstand me, the iOS update process can be painful for sure. I wish it were more stable but I suppose it's what we get for choosing to make music on a decidedly consumer oriented platform installed on 10 gagillion devices.
I feel you and we all know this pain well but as with all computer software since DOS 2, if it works the moment you install it and you want it work for ever, you're welcome and encouraged to lock the device right then and there. It's similar to what I was yacking on about earlier: I think the problem largely stems from us wanting the same device to do more and more and more. Indeed, it's very very common practice in professional studios to lock the DAW machine at a fixed working version (os, daw, plug-ins, all of it) and have it remain that way until it's time for a new machine. 5-6 years of zero updates is totally normal. Some larger, more venerable facilities (think abbey road) never update a working machine—it goes into storage so that a project from 1996 can be recalled in the future. Studio C or whatever is for chasing the new hotness.
Well-reasoned overall and the very last is also applicable to my wardrobe.
Well its nice to know that Goodyear chases the new hotness for his wardrobe closet. LOL!
I never inferred that developers were being lazy or spiteful by not supporting older versions of IOS.
You have misconstrued my intention totally. I meant exactly what I wrote that it was a conscious
decision on the part of the developer. For example I have contacted some developers and respectfully requested them to incorporate Audiobus to their app. Some developers actually did add Audiobus some did not.
This developer did add Audiobus his choice
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/vinyl-the-real-record-player/id571600993?mt=8
This developer did not add Audiobus his choice
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/conform/id664574539?mt=8
Two great app If you do not have them get them.
I am aware that additional code has to be written in order for the app to be viable for multiple
versions of IOS. And I do understand that is time consuming and that is why I applaud the developers of Auria for going the extra mile by providing their amazing app for IOS7.0 which works flawlessly. I will upgrade to an IPAD PRO so I will probably be using IOS 9X soon.
Thank you guys for the vigorous conversation gentlemen as swords sharpen swords
This! I have ipod touch 2G, which was my first step into iOS devices and portable music making; i still use it as player or for some really old apps like Noise.IO, Ricepad, Monnix etc. I have my good old iPad 3. I'm not, never was, and unlikely will be one if those people who "upgrade every year". All this situation is much more crazy then desktop/laptop world where software mostly keeps working for a much larger lifespan, like many applications from windows xp still work on win10 etc. (as for apple, they always were cutting down backwards compability, though they tried a bit to support power pc mac era software when they moved to intel).
Of course, all are different. Some people here are professional musicians 24/7, some are hobbyists. Me, for example, have periods when i abandon music related stuff for years, yeah. So i'm not pursuing stuff. It's a bit easy in hardware where 30+ yo synth/drum machine may work excellent (or need rapair, though). But that's another story.
Anyway, reading what @syrupcore wrote, it's pretty sad how things complex, difficult and painful are! I'm gladful for developers who continue supporting older OS in one or another form. (Though i feel bad when some do "ios newest" only release when app may function as intended on earlier too).