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recording bass
I'm sure this is not the right place to post this but just was not sure to post it, but sure hope you guys can help me. I'm trying to get a good recording on a bass guitar track. The problem I'm having is that what I'm noticing is that the lower frequencies get a higher level(louder) that on the higher strings. Then the hard you hit the strings the level(louder) it gets. So since I play bass with my fingers the levels are not consistent. I have a good compressor. I really dont know what i'm doing with the compressor, so I'm trying to learn how it use it. I was using it earlier and it just seems to et it to make a diffe3rence i had to use extreme settings with time, compression, ration and output can you give me some suggested setting so i can lran to use it? do i compress just bass vocals and drums or will also compressing guitar i9mprove my mixes? Now within bias will i also want to use extreme compression on the bass amp. I'm new to mixing/recording so any help you can give me would help. Thank you in advance.
P.S. I want to thank you for all your help while I learn the ipad thing getting everything going and helping me understand everything. I just appreciate all your help in general. This has been a wonderful welcoming community and I'm very happy to be a part of it. I also would love to hearn all you guy's music and mixes.
Jim
Comments
The lower freqs are 'bigger' notes, more mass moving etc. and magnetic pickups can kick out some mean lows, so they'll naturally be louder and bigger on the waveform.
Basic compression will help and you'll get better advice on how to compress bass by googling then following links to pro-production message boards (although I'm sure there are also people here who can handle a compressor).
The absolute best, most effective method of getting better, more consistant bass tracks down is simply practise. It's possible to get a consistent attack on bass with fingers. Get your DAW up, metronome on, attention to your muting, watch the waveform like a hawk and GO!
Use pickup selectors, tone knob, try to play near the bridge.
You need to eq the input and then slap some light compression on it. When eqing just move the low freq sliders until you find the offending 'boomy' frequencies. Once you've done that you should be set to go. I use tone stack as an amp sim. The last version has bass amps emulations too but I find the amp I use on my strat works just as well on the bass with compression added.
Also tend to not have ringing strings but those which are actually being played
Don't 'tend' to do that.. pay attention to muting and do it 100% of the time!!;)
If you are playing fingered just let your thumb slip on the first unused string rather than try to do mutes from the fretboard. Assuming you play a 4 string bass:
E string-thumb on pickup
A string-Thumb on E string
And so on
Solid advice all around here - EQ and compression and consistent playing technique are all parts of the answer to your woes. Back in the day, some studio engineers (who clearly were not working with Geddy Lee, Chris Squire or John Entwhistle) would insist on putting a pick in the bassist's hands to ensure a consistent volume output.
They had compressors and EQs. They were just being lazy. We've evolved.
That said, as a bass player, I have been known to record certain tracks with a pick. Unless your finger playing is a particular point of pride, it's not the end of the world. Whatever works best for the song and your style
You shouldn't want to lose the dynamics that come from playing with your fingers. I believe that is what gives "your sound" character. I've tried all the compressor/limiters with little success. Doesn't work the same (in my experience) as it does with hardware. Add an EQ, find the offensive frequency and drop it down.
My advice: any good compressor with a ratio of 12:1, attack of 10ms and release to around 190ms will do the job. Set the threshold so the gain reduction meter shows about 5db of gain reduction. Try to make bass lines that don't span more than an octave and a half, unless it's a bass solo. Good luck!
Dimitri.
Great replies...Thanks guys I appreciate it.
As a guitar player, I play my bass with a Pick, I know it's a sin, but it can't be helped.
ifretless bass is a kick butt app that does a keen job. Keeps my playing consistent.
Not much of a bass player myself, but I play on all my stuff and use my thumb most of the time. If you're tracking in Auria, the Fab Filter Pro Q2 is phenomenal for notching out boominess in bass tracks. I like the sound of the bias bass amps, but I'm finding that going direct to a track in Auria allows me to EQ and compress until my bass track works in the mix. Sometimes the bass amp sims just muddy up my mix. I've also played around and had some success with using a few of the THM plugin's clean amp heads without any cabinet. I'm still amazed how much low end I can low cut on my bass tracks. Are you using a DAW?
It's possible that you can adjust your pickups for better balance. Different strings may be helpful too, as would a good setup by a good tech. But also, get to know your bass and use the quirks to your advantage. You don't want to compress the snot out of it, that's not really a dilution and it will rob your part of a lot of good stuff.
But, number one, make sure you're using good technique, that will get you a lot farther than anything else.
Oh, and why are you playing anything other than low notes? Ha!
Lots of good tips in this thread. As a bass player I would also try and approach some of the higher notes on the lower strings. It's obviously not always possible but if you want the higher notes to sound fatter just play them on the E and A strings.
Other than that, like others have said: practise! Especially right hand technique.
@mrufino1 has some great tips there. I agree that at least for recording slightly lighter gauge for the D and G may help - what works for live playing doesn't always work for tracking. And definitely technique!
Personally I've found this sort of issue is a great application for multiband compression - to tame just an area of the track without squeezing the life out of it.
Well, I prefer the bass the most consistent as possible when just grooving along - and that involves squeezing with compression (although some can be achieved with preamp saturation or even a distortion rack or stomp). That doesn't mean you should not work out your technique or get to know and adjust better your gear. Compression is not some magical trick that brings music out of thin air: it's a tool, an indispensable one for the task of getting a tigher low end.
Stay away from MB compression for this, unless you really know deeply what you're doing. Otherwise, it should be left for the mastering engineer.
Of course, for a bass solo, or for the occasional fill (check out Ben Harper's "Steal My Kisses" for these done to great effect) you can allow for more dynamics, yet some compressing will be needed. My choice, again, it's to start with a ratio of 12:1, attack of 10ms, release of 150-200ms for takes recorded without a preamp (real or modelled), and smaller ratios for amplified takes, and then experiment with attack and release for tonal effects. If you have really good right-hand technique, you can start with a ratio as low as 5:1 or even less as long as you're using a pre amp or DI. A gain redction of 5db is a good starting point.
Looking forward to hear your music. Good luck!
Dimitri.
P.S.: a song of mine where the bass is the main driving force:
P.P.S.: most soft compressors have a "knee" feature: if you want a crisp, percussive attack, set it to hard. If you want a softer, veiled attack, try soft knee.
I prefer to use parallel compression, so I can preserve as much of the good transient elements as possible, but still ride at a consistent level in the mix. Compression can crush dynamics, but that doesn't mean it has to.
And yeah, playing with your fingers, it's an art, performing take after take without any POPs out of nowhere
Pops like these?
Sometimes I also use NY compression (the song I posted above is an example of this btw), but it's just simpler and as effective IMHO to use traditional compression if the bass is not to be up front.
I was just changing strings on my bass when I thought that the distance of the pick up from the strings makes a difference. Namely if your pick ups aren't too close, I'd say keep them at least 10mm away from strings if the sound is unbalanced. I used to try to get them as close as I could to get stronger signal but ended up with some strings sounding louder than others.
Or, give up and use a pick. I'm going to do my next track with a pick, just to contrast. Someone mentioned a bunch of very famous bass players above - Chris Squire used a pick.
Certain bass styles and sounds, in rock particularly, sound good with a pick. Specially 8ths or 16ths punk or heavy bass lines that require a brighter, edgy tone with or with a fairly percussive character. Chris Squire is a good example, Jason Newsted is another.
Pick playing sounds especially good to me when you add just enough overdrive to start catching the attack.
The pickup height is the issue, as a couple of others have noted. The farther away from the strings, the quieter the volume, so you can tip it away from the strings that are too loud, or tip it towards the quiet strings, or both.
Once that is set up right it should be easier to get a more consistent level. Then the compressor is a nice finishing touch. The thing to get a volume leveling of notes on the bass, rather than just squashing the attack of the notes, is to mess with the release knob, what you are looking for is a setting that sounds good with the tempo of the bass part, so the gain reduction from the compressor just recovers in time for the next note.
If it is too slow, a loud note will drop the volume of a quieter following note, because the compressor hasn't recovered. If it is too fast, the compressor will end up just compressing the start of the note, and bring up the tail of the note, making the envelope of the bass note unnatural/squeezed sounding. Because it has to do with tempo, and the bass part, it is best to adjust on a song by song basis (part by part if you are trying to mix the next Thriller).
One trick to set the release time musically, for the song, is crank up the ratio all the way, like 30:1, and then lower the threshold, til it starts to pump dramatically, and you get lots of reduction on the meter. From there it is easier to hear what adjusting the release does, and to find a setting that sounds good with the part. From there you can raise the threshold and lower the ratio to get a more subtle compression, but your release is optimized for the song.
Auto-release can be handy for bass, if the part varies from fast notes (you'd want a faster release) to slow notes (slower release).
The release and atttack must never be too short though: if so, individual wave cicles can trigger inadvertedly the compression, leading to heavy artifacts. Good to have the attack of 10ms or higher, and the release no less than 25ms even for fast songs.
DOH! That was me. Could've sworn I saw a vid where he was playing w/fingers. Ah well, substitute Geezer Butler
Rick & Oscar are absolutely right. McCartney, Sting, Carol Kaye as well as those who play fingers live but switch in the studio all use a pick to record bass.
I've always played with a pick, especially in studio, with mainly a Fender Heavy, but I also employ palm muting, right off the bridge. It becomes such second nature after awhile that going to just fingers feels very weird.
This approach can lead to a thumpy, dead string sound if you go too far, but done right it can make a bass track very punchy and improve clarity. It also helps to keep the strings sounding uniform, the high or low notes don't jump out as bad.
Use a tube preamp (there are less expensive models like the ART Tube MP or the dbx unit that sound very cool) and run through some compression to even out volume changes even more.
There should be a warm, wooly sound that has a thick bottom but also has clarity & punch. Just one way to do it, but for me it's my go to bass guitar process.
I always loved McCartney's bass sound the studio version of "Something". If you listen to the isolated track on that song, it sounds okay, but I think many of us would continue to dial in our tone and go right past this one. There's so many of these isolated tracks floating around these days, which is very cool for us if we're looking for some tones to chase in our own mixes.