Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
The Difference in Synthesizers?
Hi,
I don't have a lot of experience with synthesizers, or the math that goes into synthesizing sound... but I was wondering what the real difference between various synthesizer apps is.
I think I've got about 18 or so apps that would qualify as "synthesizers" or have a built-in synthesizer engine.
Probably, the most sophisticated and "higher end" of those I have are probably Animoog, DRC (betatester), and maybe I'd throw Viking into that mix. I love all three of these for various reasons.
I also recently picked up EGSY01 Analog Synth yesterday and was playing with it a bit this morning, as well as the other little AU synth I have called KQ minisynth.
While I was messing around loading up my only two AU synths (Viking & KQ minisynth) into multiple AUM channels, tweaking the settings, etc. and layering on top of each other, while also adding some IAA and AU effects.. it occurred to me that with nothing more than ONLY the little KQ minisynth, tweaking it's 4 oscillators, Filter FX, envelopes, modulators, etc. and mixing a dozen different instances of the same synth with different settings, then routing all of them into another bus to then add more FX to, etc.. that all the different possible combinations could be astronomical.
So, my question is... most of the synths have similar tools for modifying sound. What is the real difference between all of the synths? Is is basically user interface? Or, have the developers baked in a starting point that gets you to interesting sounds faster than experimenting on your own?
Take Animoog, DRC, Viking, EGSY01 Analog Synth, and Shape Synth. These all sound quite different based on the presets. But is the base generation of tone originating at basically the same starting point for each? Or, is that where the real difference between synths is?
Just a little confused. Again, it seems like with nothing more than KQ minisynth and the knowledge of what all of the oscillators, filters, fx, envelopes, and modulators do... by mixing multiple instances of.. the possibilities of different sounds is huge. And, that if you knew exactly what you were doing, you could pretty much emulate ANY synth of of most of the synths. Is that true?
Comments
The majority of synths you listed are analog modelling, and are very much based on the same tried-and-tested synthesis of the hardware they're loosely inspired by.
Animoog, however, uses a wave-morphing vector synthesis method of generating sounds, more akin to the Sequential Prophet VS, Korg Wavestation or PPG Wave. These are digital synths and have, until relatively recently, been ignored while everyone romanticises analog. Thankfully, digital is starting to gain popularity again....possibly because, as many can attest to, it can offer a far wider scope in sound design terms. You can certainly make a digital synth sound analog, but it's far harder to do the reverse.
Some are substractive,wave,sampled,fm,monophonic or polyphonie.You can create synth and learn with Audulus, zmors or analogkit. My last favorite synths are Mersenne, EGSY ,TF7 ( sounds like crystal for a fm one) but im disapointed with zedsynth and synthQ.I donno much about How synth work but DSP is very important. There are good info on Wikipedia about synth and sonic theory.I can't help you more im a beginner too.
I don't fully understand the nuts & bolts terms for sound synthesis. What I'm getting at I suppose... is this, what criteria do you use for deciding which synth you want or need for your music or sound design production?
All of them that I have sound significantly different from each other. And, most have enough parameters to change... that once you add in mixing several instances of them together in AUM and all controlled by the same keyboard or midi software... it seems the possible variations are endless.
Why would you build your own synths? Are you going to get something completely different starting from scratch than if you start with a synth app and tweak all the parameters to taste?
Given that, why pick one synth over the other? The presets on one over the other sound more interesting to you? More control over the shape of the sound in this app over the other? The interface is better for you? etc..
All valid reasons. But like sleepless said, there are also very different synthesis types and architectures. The most common is called subtractive synthesis. It's the way most analog synths work; start with a full spectrum oscillator pass it through a filter to subtract spectral content, trigger it with an envelope which shapes the volume over time.
There can be a lot of variables in a subtractive synth though. Number and type of oscillators, modulation (differing sources and destinations), filter types, number of envelopes (and number of steps as well as speed)... And within each and every one of those possible permutations comes elements (either bits of hardware or DSP/algorithms) that impart sonic character—the 'sound' of a synth.
So, while 4 different synths may have the same basic sonic building blocks, the sound that comes from each can be quite different. Or one may just sound better for certain types of sound. A Les Paul and a Telecaster have basically the same bits but sound quite different.
Then there's alternate types of synthesis like additive, physical modeling, FM, wavetable, sample based, phase-distortion... each with their own set of variables.
Yes UI is one important thing but sounds first.For me the two best sounding are animoog and TF7, i dont even know iPad could produce so complex and clean sounds.I tried all the knobs, lfo and modulation but it s totally chance.For learning SynthQ is a good one with his adding modules but i dont like too much the sound.Arturia synth are really good (french) Stufff too.The Bundle of old synth emulation on ios and computer are breathtaking.If only i could buy a real Arp 2600 or Moog ...
@syrupcore Hmmm... ok. thanks for the info
It just seems that if you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't need a bunch of different synth apps. Seems you could sculpt any sound you wanted with minimal tools and the right combinations of settings. But, it appears it must be more complicated than that.
@grego68 just grabbed TF7. Very sweet sounds from that one. Thanks!
The guitar comparison is a good one. You cannot get everytone from one guitar. You cannot get every tone from one synth app.
Even with subtractive synths, the range of different filter types is vast. Add together all the other parts in a synths signal flow and welcome to a life time of finding new sounds.
What really makes a synth work well though, is a synergy between the sound sculpting possibilities, the UI and the person.
Get to know a synth well and you will get so much from it, yet no synth will do it all however much you know.
^ Even with 2 separate VA synths, the filter character can make a huge difference in overall sound. Thor, while an excellent synth has (to my ears) very weak filters once you turn up the resonance. Viking's filter does a better job, although I still find that poor compared to a hardware VA like the Blofeld or perhaps even the MS2000.
In fact, with any of the iOS synths - FM, VA, vector, wavetable, granular or sample-based like the iM1 - I've found the filters are commonly the weak points, sounding decidedly like decade-old VSTs.
In a subtractive synth, the raw oscillators will sound different between synths based on whatever algorithms and such were used to code it. Same with filters and effects. So you could do virtually unlimited sounds with whatever synth you fancy, based on sound and user interface, but additional synths might have different flavors you like as well. Also the main thing that really makes a sound come to life is modulations. And modulation possibilities vary a good amount between synths. So that is another reason you might choose one over the other. And of course if you just use presets, well then you just collect them for that. For example, I love Animoog and use it often. But If I wanted a huge trance hands in the air super saw, it would be pointless to waste time trying that in Animoog. I could maybe get close, and have, but it's a fools errand when I could load up sunrizer and get that within seconds.
Oh....should point out my criticism of filters in apps doesn't extend to Animoog...
The main difference between synths is the price.
You have to follow your ears and see what the presets offer them.
Some will think that is a sad thing, and that you should always find your own sounds, but the quality of a synth should be self evident to your ears from the presets.
And that will be different for everyone.
Alchemy is/was considered one of the best synths ever, on either iOS or OS X, but I can't hear my voice in most of what that synth produces.
And you really just have to try and determine whether these synths can represent your voice accurately.
Once you find a synth which does that, if it has a randomize function, you can usually derive new sounds out of it which will be more to your liking.
Oscillators and the way they're implemented are a factor, the number of different shapes of oscillators, (obviously wavetables are different from the old school sine, square, saw wave possibilities) whether you can sweep between oscillator shapes, pulse width modulation capabilities, filter design is another factor, 12, 24 or both filters, how the resonance sounds - can it self-oscillate, modulation possibilities is big for me - multiple LFOs please, envelope speed - some are faster than others, suboscillator capabilities, whether one can program different values for say envelope speed, filter cutoff, resonance, each voice in the synth a la iSem, (and many of the Oberheim's) and UI/workflow are the big factors for me. That's for subtractive synths.
There are, as mentioned a number of other synthesis types as well.
And I've noticed they are all named differently.
Price means nothing ,some cheaps are great and 3O euros premium synth means you just buying the brand name.
All virsyn have randomizer ,sunrizer ,magellan it's a great function indeed to discover sounds without too much theory.
If only we could have something like XFER serum, Native instruments Monark, FM8, massive or uhe Bacille and Diva on ipad.What is wrong ? Developpers' motivation , budget or they are limited by the IPAD DSP hardware or coreaudio. Those vst and AU are not too large (100 mo perhaps more) i would be so great to see those softwares here. They successed to developp Cyclop and Synthmaster (ok it's just a player not really the vst one) but what happened with native instruments, Tone 2 and many more ? Ipad is not enough powerfull ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sound_synthesis_types
I'm no expert, but maybe it's like the infinite monkey theorem -- if you give him a typewriter, in an infinite amount of time he'll produce the works of Shakespeare. A synth is like a monkey. Could you count on being able to get the sound you want out of one synth? You could get countless different sounds, but you might not get the exact one you want even with an infinite number of tries.
There must be an infinite number of possible sounds, and every make of synth is unique, generally capable of a range of sounds that are similar in some way. But how many synths can sound, not only just like a violin, but like a violin actually being played with all its dynamic and expressive capabilities. Maybe close, but none I know of, and no matter how many you stack or how many effects processors you put them through. If you use a sound modeling synth (Sculpture in Logic for example) you can at least start with physical modeling of a string. OTOH, if you want to get a vintage DX7 sound, subtractive synthesis seems impossible, but FM synthesis would be your friend. So I think a skill a sound designer needs is knowing what synth is the best one for the job.
This is it. Made me think of my little tool shop in the garage. I own three different sized/shaped hammers. They are all capable of bashing a nail or killing a zombie but when I'm building something, I sometimes need the right hammer.
Absolutely. Sometimes I want the little light blue 12W Weller soldering iron, sometimes I want the dark blue but otherwise almost identical 12W Weller soldering iron, and sometimes I want the gigantic temperature variable (as opposed to controlled) big ugly soldering “station” I got from Lidl many years ago, which wrecks printed circuit board tracks, and came with two tiny rolls of that stupid new solder with no solder in it, that basically doesn’t work, because some idiot might eat it and therefore perfectly justifiably die out of stupidity, consequently now none of us can solder properly because of that.
Yeah.
@skiphunt said: While I was messing around loading up my only two AU synths (Viking & KQ minisynth) into multiple AUM channels, tweaking the settings, etc. and layering on top of each other, while also adding some IAA and AU effects.. it occurred to me that with nothing more than ONLY the little KQ minisynth, tweaking it's 4 oscillators, Filter FX, envelopes, modulators, etc. and mixing a dozen different instances of the same synth with different settings, then routing all of them into another bus to then add more FX to, etc.. that all the different possible combinations could be astronomical. Audio Units are the future for making music on Ipad.I guess we probably have in the next months all synths with this Au options, and maybe all the .Mac OS X au Will be compatible. For the moment Isem is the only Au i have and recommend. The viking is only monophonic even if goodsounding and your Kq minisynth looks very ugly ( like an Amiga synth) and a labirynthine systeme.How are the presets and the sounds of the Kq minithing ? There is an another au synth called NS1 but i dont have and feed-back of it. Zmors modular seems to have new au modules since the last update and i really Want to give it a chance and Try, he looks very flexible and powerfull.I love my iPad synths but always get a shock when I hear the hardware versions . Sound from the new mini Moogs for example are just mind blowing compared to the iPad equivalents lol
What are the main differences between hardware synths and iPad sounds ? Even the desktop software sounds better than on iOS, but iPad is far better than Android system for music. I think IPad A8 chip ,soundcard and DSP are limited for a professionnal purpose.But touchscreen possibilities, using It as a midi controller and the big library of music software make it a good tool for a musician.
The differences between digital hardware and apps will come down to the quality of the programming and the digital to analog converters used in each case. iOS devices have some limitations towards the power a programmer can use.
The difference between analog hardware and apps trying to emulate them is far more complex.
The difference in real life use between having synths in any other form or an iOS app, is far less noticeable. The skill of the artist will have far more effect on the quality of the music than the difference between iOS synths and other synths - if you can't make good music on an iPad, having hardware won't make much of a difference
The biggest boon of hardware is having physical controllers.
http://www.tunadjgear.com
Knobs to you too
If you're on a budget , or just a home musician enjoying making some noise then the ipads fine . I get a bit lost in my ios world and think the sounds are the dogs nuts , until I visit my pro musician mates and get to hear their banks of hardware gear lol . Moogs in particular sound massively lush and complex , and produce a sound that ios and desktop synths just can't compete with . But then I can run about 8 synths at once via Aum and make a great old racket for less than the price of one of their hardware beasts . Swings and roundabouts yeah ?
@carol
You can make a rack for less than the price of a knob of one of their hardware:)
I always remember having to attempt to dial down my analog synths to make them sit nicely in a mix, but played alone God do they have something special
I think at one basic level you are right here, actually.
Much of the above comments focus on the 'quality' of the sounds and lots of quite nuanced (possibly even subjective) differences in things like 'richness' and 'complexity'. I'm not disagreeing with any of that by the way.
However, personally, not being able to realistically afford any hardware, and being interested in making my own sounds, but in a workflow that is fun and conducive to making whole fully produced tracks entirely on an ipad fairly quickly and easily, I've settled on making 99% of my sounds with Gadget synths.
Now initially I got pretty down hearted when I heard some of the presets in Thor, Zeta, Animoog and iProphet etc. Huge, complex sounds that didn't seem to have any equivalents in the Gadget presets.
However, I've quite enjoyed the challenge of getting various Gadget synths close enough to some of my favourite preset sounds elsewhere. It's certainly been a great way of learning synth programming.
So there's a bass preset in Thor called 'ferocious reese' which is amazing. By carefully copying what and where I could, I managed to get Wolfsburgh to at least mimic the movement and basic sound/form of that bass patch. Now it doesn't sound exactly the same, it sounds slightly different (maybe worse quality) but for use in the mix of a track it does roughly the same job, and I have complete piano roll control over modulation of all its parameters too.
I made a similar Wolfsburgh one broadly copying a favourite Animoog patch.
And I find Phoenix (in Gadget) to be pretty great at most basic Analog synth sounds I need. (Doing the job of Sunriser I guess).
I miss having a true FM or physical modelling or granular synth in Gadget though. The best bets are Chiang Mai, Tokyo and Keiv respectively I guess.
Anyway - don't want to be off topic, but I guess one way to look at it is to think about what you want to achieve. For subtractive synth type sounds I'd say most subtractive synths would get you there, and you can always do stuff to them with Auria plug ins during the mix. Maybe pick one or two synths like this and really learn them.
For more specialist stuff like granular synthesis - pick one granular synth. Then maybe an FM synth. And a drum synth. And I love Mersenne as a unique physical modelling synth.
Animoog is special. I love it. Buy it.
I would just perhaps say that number of synths purchased might start to have an inverse relationship to things like 'amount of tracks finished' / 'depth of synth programming knowledge' / 'health of bank account' eventually
.