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Garageband. Discuss.

13

Comments

  • @ExAsperis99 said:

    @syrupcore said:
    ... All else being equal, Never Mind the Bullocks, Controversy, Unknown Pleasures, Double Nickels on the Dime, Blonde on Blonde, Blue, not to mention Abbey Road....

    I like what's in your canon!.

    That's what she said?

  • I use no other DAW than GB. Every other one I've looked into has (for me) too much of a learning curve compared to the head-start I have with GB, although I will admit that other apps probably come across better on an iPad... and probably three-quarters of them aren't for the iPhone anyway... and then there's Audiobus to allow anyone with a whim or a burgeoning talent to bring more tools into the mix (so-to-speak).

  • Far more than anything I could add, this ends the discussion for me:

    @syrupcore said:
    In music education it's very hard for me to see GarageBand as any sort of less than. It's an awesome app overflowing with potential for music capture, arrangement and creation. Tech house, dub step, prog rock and some other 'technical' genres may be difficult but honestly, whatever. I would have slaughtered babies for access to GarageBand as a teenager! All else being equal, Never Mind the Bullocks, Controversy, Unknown Pleasures, Double Nickles on a Dime, Blonde on Blonde, Blue, not to mention Abbey Road.... could have been made with GarageBand. GarageBand is punk as fuck in its egalitarianism—just happens to be published by the most profitable megacorp on earth. There's nothing stopping you from plugging a $10k Neumann->Avalon Pre->etc in to GB. Just a really convenient digital multitrack with some smashingly musical extra features.

    I tried to make albums with various Tascams, a DR-550 and a Casio Keyboard back in the 90s FFS!

  • I’ve realised lately that I frequently look at a piece of new tech that is perhaps:

    • a good price
    • compact / portable
    • novel
    • stripped down and accessible

    and then think “I would have loved this when I was a teenager, would have been all I needed” or some similar sentiment.
    Nowadays I know to append “…yeah, for a month. Six months later it’d be forgotten and buried.”

  • well, that's just the sign of the times...
    everything must be: instant access - immediate results - no thoughts spent on
    drifting into the networked mental vacuum... >:)

    cheers, Tom

  • edited July 2016

    I've been in Logic for months now, using the Logic Remote on my iPad when it is useful to do so, so I haven't really thought much about iPad apps until recently.

    I was doing some music theory explorations on a casual trip and wanted to spend some time in an all-in-one so went back to Gadget for about a week.

    But, something stood out in a negative way. Nearly every preset for each polyphonic gadget in the standard package has some detuning involved. This is obviously designed to give some character and grit to the dance/techno realm of the basic kit. If you are trying to mess around with harmony, however, it can be a massive train wreck if you go past simple major or minor chords.

    I'm a bit spoiled by having the full alchemy in Logic, not to mention every other super high quality sound offered in that program, and after you've been immersed in that, you can definitely see night and day differences in sound quality vs. some iOS apps.

    So, after being a bit disappointed with that, I decided to test GB since at least on the desktop GB constantly takes new developments from Logic, so it would stand to reason that the production quality of samples, and synth engines are likely similar if not the same.

    This turned out to be what I was looking for in the simple pursuit of harmonic analysis.

    And, I will say this about the current GB. This program is more than simple enough to master every aspect of it within a week, and I am of the camp that the best musical tools are those you've already mastered, instead of those you hope to master, when it comes down to consistently finishing and producing music.

    I do, however, hate the way devices/instruments are chosen. I think the biggest turnoff to this app for me is its Skeuomorphism, mainly because of the cognitive dissonance created by the fact that Apple dropped its skeuomorphic approach back in iOS 7.

    I'd also prefer having different controllers, such as something like Thumbjam built in for playing.

    Emulating the experience of playing an actual instrument on a flat surface is simply absurd to me, and also makes GB seem very retro, and also is what lead to the necessity of creating the "smart instruments" which basically play themselves.

    There is a chance Gadget's Module extension and new acoustic gadgets could have solved some of my problems, but I'm past the point, now that I use Logic, where I'd want to go fishing with new apps just to "see if they'll work out".

    I hate juggling multiple apps when I'm trying to focus on something fairly simple. I love having all the creative options when I need them however.

    So, I guess my review would be that Garageband on iOS is a mixed bag of outdated information design, superb tone quality, and some occasional new ideas (live loops), all encased in a system which will take information from other sources, but generally refuse to share with anyone else.

    It's simple. It's frustrating. It can be mastered by anyone.

    It isn't Logic, and I wish it was.

    The Logic Remote could also use a ton of work as well, as it does kind of go a little too far down the GB rabbit hole in my opinion.

  • @u0421793 said:
    I’ve realised lately that I frequently look at a piece of new tech that is perhaps:

    • a good price
    • compact / portable
    • novel
    • stripped down and accessible and then think “I would have loved this when I was a teenager, would have been all I needed” or some similar sentiment.
      Nowadays I know to append “…yeah, for a month. Six months later it’d be forgotten and buried.”

    I absolutely hate reviews from people who use this method as their guiding hand in analyzing an app. If that app doesn't hit some nostalgia nerve of what they think they would have loved as a child, in other words, a fictitious premise of a fictitious opportunity in a fictitious time, then they won't explore it for what it is.

    I've come to realize that some people simply have this mental illness which prevents them from analyzing something as it exists today based on how they interact with it today. They have to start with a fictitious premise, and try to enter a "universal mind" mental space which doesn't exist anywhere in reality.

    Though it is a bit naive of me to simply blame the person for it, we've all been indoctrinated to various degrees by corporation ran governments to think this way for their benefit.

  • Bring back skeuomorphism nearly all my favourite apps have a "real world" appearance.

  • @BiancaNeve said:
    Bring back skeuomorphism nearly all my favourite apps have a "real world" appearance.

    +1

    I love the skeuomorphism especially in instruments

  • edited July 2016

    @AQ808 said:

    @u0421793 said:
    I’ve realised lately that I frequently look at a piece of new tech that is perhaps:

    • a good price
    • compact / portable
    • novel
    • stripped down and accessible and then think “I would have loved this when I was a teenager, would have been all I needed” or some similar sentiment.
      Nowadays I know to append “…yeah, for a month. Six months later it’d be forgotten and buried.”

    I absolutely hate reviews from people who use this method as their guiding hand in analyzing an app. If that app doesn't hit some nostalgia nerve of what they think they would have loved as a child, in other words, a fictitious premise of a fictitious opportunity in a fictitious time, then they won't explore it for what it is.

    I've come to realize that some people simply have this mental illness which prevents them from analyzing something as it exists today based on how they interact with it today. They have to start with a fictitious premise, and try to enter a "universal mind" mental space which doesn't exist anywhere in reality.

    Though it is a bit naive of me to simply blame the person for it, we've all been indoctrinated to various degrees by corporation ran governments to think this way for their benefit.

    @Donald_Rumsfeld U.S. Secretary of Defense said:
    Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.

    Donald Rumsfeld said this to justify moving forward with the Iraq War despite a lack of objective evidence for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It illustrates how abstract our thinking can become as it's used as a tool to encourage us to action and to quell discomforting emotions.

    My use of such a quote in the context of a thread on GarageBand is consistent with how we can form relationships between perhaps the seemingly disconnected.

    Rather than think of our subjective perspective as some sort of mental illness which prevents us from being able to perceive objective reality, I see it as inherent in the human condition where we're strongly oriented towards our relationships with people. Throughout our lifetime we go through a process of enculturation which shapes our values and how we filter our experiences. Commerce certainly recognizes the significance of this process and attempts to use it as a tool to realize their goals.

    When I read the post by @u0421793, it reminded me of how we can be more reflective as we get older. Our habits and routines have become more ingrained in us so naturally we tend to experience what happens to us in a more habitual way rather than more spontaneous and therefore associate future actions with past experiences. This could also be influenced by our biological development as we age. I think in general, the ratio of spontaneity to habitual shifts between childhood and adulthood. This may not be the case for everyone nor is it inevitable; however, it's a strong trend I've observed.

    @u0421793 may recognize no correspondence between what I wrote and his experiences either.

  • @InfoCheck said:

    @AQ808 said:

    @u0421793 said:
    I’ve realised lately that I frequently look at a piece of new tech that is perhaps:

    • a good price
    • compact / portable
    • novel
    • stripped down and accessible and then think “I would have loved this when I was a teenager, would have been all I needed” or some similar sentiment.
      Nowadays I know to append “…yeah, for a month. Six months later it’d be forgotten and buried.”

    I absolutely hate reviews from people who use this method as their guiding hand in analyzing an app. If that app doesn't hit some nostalgia nerve of what they think they would have loved as a child, in other words, a fictitious premise of a fictitious opportunity in a fictitious time, then they won't explore it for what it is.

    I've come to realize that some people simply have this mental illness which prevents them from analyzing something as it exists today based on how they interact with it today. They have to start with a fictitious premise, and try to enter a "universal mind" mental space which doesn't exist anywhere in reality.

    Though it is a bit naive of me to simply blame the person for it, we've all been indoctrinated to various degrees by corporation ran governments to think this way for their benefit.

    @Donald_Rumsfeld U.S. Secretary of State said:
    Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.

    Donald Rumsfeld said this to justify moving forward with the Iraq War despite a lack of objective evidence for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It illustrates how abstract our thinking can become as it's used as a tool to encourage us to action and to quell discomforting emotions.

    My use of such a quote in the context of a thread on GarageBand is consistent with how we can form relationships between perhaps the seemingly disconnected.

    Rather than think of our subjective perspective as some sort of mental illness which prevents us from being able to perceive objective reality, I see it as inherent in the human condition where we're strongly oriented towards our relationships with people. Throughout our lifetime we go through a process of enculturation which shapes our values and how we filter our experiences. Commerce certainly recognizes the significance of this process and attempts to use it as a tool to realize their goals.

    When I read the post by @u0421793, it reminded me of how we can be more reflective as we get older. Our habits and routines have become more ingrained in us so naturally we tend to experience what happens to us in a more habitual way rather than more spontaneous and therefore associate future actions with past experiences. This could also be influenced by our biological development as we age. I think in general, the ratio of spontaneity to habitual shifts between childhood and adulthood. This may not be the case for everyone nor is it inevitable; however, it's a strong trend I've observed.

    @u0421793 may recognize no correspondence between what I wrote and his experiences either.

    Very interesting posts, all three. Sometimes (and if done with good grace) I love this forum for its sudden ability to shift from the studio, pick up gowns and pipes, and wander outside into the philosophy/sociology corridor...

  • @BiancaNeve said:
    Bring back skeuomorphism nearly all my favourite apps have a "real world" appearance.

    music apps seem to be the last refuge of skeuomorphism ... Garage Band never abandoned it and Gadget is the undisputed king of skeuomorphism with all their added interface elements that don't do anything like headphone jacks etc

  • Moog model 15 must be a contender for that crown surely :)

  • @nick said:

    @BiancaNeve said:
    Bring back skeuomorphism nearly all my favourite apps have a "real world" appearance.

    music apps seem to be the last refuge of skeuomorphism ... Garage Band never abandoned it and Gadget is the undisputed king of skeuomorphism with all their added interface elements that don't do anything like headphone jacks etc

    I use those headphone jacks all the time o:)

  • edited July 2016

    ... along with iMS-20, iPolysix, iMini, iProphet, iSEM, iVCS3 to name a few, as well as most of the guitar amp/cab apps, iGuzheng, D550, DrumStudio, some of the other drum synth apps,

  • @MusicInclusive said:
    ... along with iMS-20, iPolysix, iMini, iProphet, iSEM, iVCS3 to name a few, as well as most of the guitar amp/cab apps, iGuzheng, D550, DrumStudio, some of the other drum synth apps,

    I like how Arturia toned down the skeuomorphism progressively from iMini to iSEM to iProphet ... it was a bit too much for my taste in iMini

  • @BiancaNeve said:
    Moog model 15 must be a contender for that crown surely :)

    one of the best for sure :smile:

  • @AQ808 said:
    I've come to realize that some people simply have this mental illness which prevents them from analyzing something as it exists today based on how they interact with it today.

    Are you talking about me?

  • @nick said: music apps seem to be the last refuge of skeuomorphism ... Garage Band never abandoned it and Gadget is the undisputed king of skeuomorphism with all their added interface elements that don't do anything like headphone jacks etc

    That's taking skeuomorphism to a ridiculous level - what with the constant fuss about screen real estate, why would any dev waste valuable space imitating something that's not going to be used?

  • it really matters - today people listen by eye in the first place
    and as many such surfaces reproduce expensive or rare gear, it automatically upgrades whatever is fed through
    did you never notice comments like: 'looks great...' after a new app or plugin is released ?
    and in fact: it really is ridiculous... :p

    cheers, Tom

  • In some cases, it may be that there's some space available in the interface, so it's filled temporarily with a placeholder image to enhance the look of the device. I'd bet if the developer needed the space for an active interface element, they'd use it for that.

  • @lovadamusic said:
    In some cases, it may be that there's some space available in the interface, so it's filled temporarily with a placeholder image to enhance the look of the device. I'd bet if the developer needed the space for an active interface element, they'd use it for that.

    Fair comment.

  • edited July 2016

    It enhances the artistic experience. I appreciate instrument makers who value the visual....but I get that some people would rather work with something that looks more like the spreadsheet that Cakewalk Pro Audio had for years :D

  • I just love the black empty spaces in iMS-20, just like I do on the original :wink:

  • I think there's a wide array of tastes and needs in app GUI. I mostly appreciate apps that have good design in the sense that they don't require a lot of reading to figure out and the placement of controls is functional so that they don't get in your way.

    Skeuomorphism doesn't really do much for me unless they're trying to model a physical instrument. Flat design can be problematic when it becomes too hard to tell what are controls and what are static objects.

    There are color schemes that can be too distracting or make it difficult to see controls clearly.

    Some of my favorite apps are really very boring visually but provide the controls and feedback I need in a useful way. The worst are apps where the controls are too small and bunched together.

    Some apps it doesn't matter too much what they look like at all as I use them primarily in the background while focusing on the controls of other apps.

  • @lovadamusic said:
    In some cases, it may be that there's some space available in the interface, so it's filled temporarily with a placeholder image to enhance the look of the device. I'd bet if the developer needed the space for an active interface element, they'd use it for that.

    In Gadget, I'm sure it is a design principle. Most Gadgets have some elements that are just an illustration of fake functionality that only the physical gadget would have. They are quite consistent with it. The instrument gadgets from Module don't have it but that makes sense.

  • @nick said:

    @lovadamusic said:
    In some cases, it may be that there's some space available in the interface, so it's filled temporarily with a placeholder image to enhance the look of the device. I'd bet if the developer needed the space for an active interface element, they'd use it for that.

    In Gadget, I'm sure it is a design principle. Most Gadgets have some elements that are just an illustration of fake functionality that only the physical gadget would have. They are quite consistent with it. The instrument gadgets from Module don't have it but that makes sense.

    I haven't thought about it much, but I like the interfaces in Gadget. They're pretty comfortable to use. Everything is probably based on a design principle, and that principle may be that some elements should be decorative, creating space or symmetry...

  • wimwim
    edited July 2016

    At least iOS has largely freed us from the "Please for the love of God, make it skinnable!" crowd. Those debates over on the FL Studio forum used to drive me up a tree!! Some of those guys I would swear were ready to end their lives or give up music altogether because they couldn't customize the knobs and colors. So sad.

  • Having said that — iVCS3. When you turn a knob, the reflection goes with it. Eh?

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