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Forum courtesy: using adequate speakers or headphones
I am surprised (baffled, honestly) when I find out that someone is discussing an app based on evaluating the sound as it comes out of the iPad/ iPhone built-in speakers. For sure, we all have times where the desk monitors are too far away or the headphones were left somewhere so we enjoy the built in speakers for a quick sesh. It is ok, and fun to just play around using the built-in speaker. But for serious evaluation the difference in quality is so vast, even compared to some cheap in-ear buds.
So I just think it would be really helpful if people state clearly if they are commenting based on using built-in speaker. Or better yet, don't comment until you've tested with proper gear ;-) I appreciate the variety of input on opinions we all express here. I think this might clear up some of the ambiguous nature of online audio forum discussion.
Comments
And if you are using built-in speaker because you have an iPhone 7 with no headphone jack, then state that clearly as well... so we can laugh at you and then cry together as we bemoan the future of Apple.
what?!? next you are going to state that you should take off sunglasses when critiquing use of colors!!!!!
but yeah, +1
i thought this was an obvious thing to do and got the impression most folks here did this naturally. I listen on my good headphones. If not, I'm usually surprised how good some of these synths sound out of the speakers so it's not negative.
I think stating your monitoring device upon evaluation should be enough.
Last night I posted that I couldn't hear much difference after using the PSP microwarmer plugin. But, I also mentioned twice in that post that I was not monitoring it with headphones yet. I later posted that I could definitely hear the difference once using good headphones.
It's good info to know if an app isn't making much of a difference for mobile device delivery. Some users only use the builtin speaker and rarely use headphones. Some sound is created primarily for mobile delivery. So, if an app or plugin's benefit can ONLY be heard or fully appreciated if good headphones or good monitors are used, and not much at all via onboard speakers, that's good info too. IMO
Yes to this.
Has someone actually formed an opinion about how app sounds based on the built in speaker? XD
Yes. Me. Bebot was the app....and it's amazing through every speaker, no matter the size, preamp, converters or environment.
But of course I do agree with the ideas in this post. The difference between these iPad speakers and my monitors is staggering. And that process usually results in either a huge let down, or being blown away that an app can sound so good.
Wow I always thought the same regarding Bebot. But yeah if sounds good through the built in speakers, it will generally sound better or the same in anything else. If it doesn't, the opposite doesn't always hold true so it's kind of a positive thing.
Agreed. On the other hand it is like evaluating the screen quality for photo editing ...on a sunny day at the beach. Not often very useful for most photographers. ;-b
Hah. Awkward... sorry about that. I think skimming the PSP thread might have been what triggered my thoughts on the subject last night. Nothing personal against you, I think it is the fact that I value your and others input so much that I'm surprised when I read about device audio being used.
And funny thing is that iOS game devs have to primarily think of how it sounds on the internal speakers, so there are times where it is very important.
I usually evaluate sounds based on the screenshots in the App Store.
Wasn't it always Bruce (or Mick or Keef or Jimmy) who'd go out to the car with a cassette off the master and listen to it as though it was playing on the radio?
I won't listen to anything on the ipad/iphone trash built-in speakers, much less sounds or music I'm making. Just the suggestion that some do makes me wince.
I'm with you in terms of not pursuing dedicated sound design or production through iSpeakers. But mix referencing...? Do you ever check your mixes through these speakers as an additional third, fourth, .... point of reference? Assuming that you do that sort of thing, mixing or mastering your own material, I find that these speakers can be incredibly valuable as a "worst case playback scenario" when I am finalizing a mix that I've done on my studio monitors. I don't own the proverbial NS10's or Auratones, so having a method to listen for odd elements or tracks that poke out too much in a mix through some "trash" speakers has proven valuable numerous times.* Something to consider.
**Mainly speaking about volume referencing mixes through these speakers, not frequency-specific referencing. You'd have to be a lunatic to trust the freq response of these speakers.
I mix with headphones and occasionally unplug and check the highs on my ipad speakers.
I'll continue to base my recommendations on my tinny, mono smartphone speaker and YOU CAN'T STOP ME!
Haha, I'm putting @telecharge on that list.
the fact that we do it sometimes is evidence that these apps are really an instrument. The actual sound quality doesn't always matter, it is sometimes entirely about the musician's enjoyment of the experience of creating music.
That was standard practice at Stax.
They used a low power transmitter.
It took me 40 years to get them but ATC all the way!
I've got some half decent powered studio monitors, but I also find they can be misleading when I really should test my sounds through the large old Yamaha stage speakers and crappy amp I will use if I start jamming again
On a somewhat related note, I was listening to some 60s-era British Invasion tracks last night (The Zombies) with headphones, and I wanted someone else to hear it, so I played it over the crappy iPad speakers... I was blown away by how decent it sounded even on the tiny speaker!
Then I remembered that this stuff was mixed during the era of tiny AM transistor radios. Those engineers really knew how to get a great balanced sound out of lo fi mono. Maybe I need to start checking my mixes over the iPad speaker! maybe I need to invest in some Auratones.
Sense of smell here. If it smells good it sounds good.
iDevice speakers are okay for futzing around and sequencing but any type of tone shaping or instrumental timbre work needs to be done on a transparent set of monitors or headphones. I love Sony MDR-7506's headphones because they are very neutral, no hyped frequencies.
With the new iPad just announced seemingly conceding that they can't get too much thinner, hopefully Apple will begin making better sounding speakers a priority since shinking them down aren't the main concern.
I've had mastering clients tell me their song needs more sub bass, and when I ask what they're listening on they say laptop speakers.
This has surprisingly happened many times over the years!
But I have to say, the new iPhone7 has stereo speakers, so that's all anyone needs, right?
What constitutes 'adequate' speakers or headphones ?
There was a post here about suggesting we need to be checking our final mixes on iphone speakers. The horror...
If I'm lazy and start working on some music on the ipad speakers, I'm always surprised how wack it sounds on the good studio monitors. We're missing a lot. It's weird though, something that sounds good on the big speakers usually sounds ok on the ipad speakers. I guess that is the essence of having monitors- they reveal the true essence of the sound, by playing the sound in a full, but uncolored way, whilst consumer speakers, especially small ones, can cover up inadequacies, by only revealing part of the sound. Mixing on the ipad speakers is like having your beer goggles on.
I have some Beyerdynamic DT 150 and even though they're the 250 OHM flavour the iPad drives them easily, without the need, as I can see (hear), for a headphone amp.
Everything that should be delicious, is delicious, with these mofos.
Speakers larger than a bagel, headphones that cost more than a dozen donuts.
I was always told, "Trust your rears." Maybe I heard that wrong.
If you've already mixed on adequate stuff and THEN listen on the built in speakers and it STILL sounds good, job well done. That's my rule of thumb, when I find the motivation to actually mix properly.