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Comments
Yes but some tools are close or even better these days in this field (....especially a few upcoming).
Sure sounds like it can gain traction. And it can work well on iOS.
Most likely. Or, at least, the cheap controllers will gain a lot in the affordances for expressiveness/responsiveness.
Quite literally the stuff of science fiction. Really does make me dream for a ROLI-built wind controller. If anyone can understand the potential for integrating breath control, lip pressure, and multidimensional finger pressure, it’s someone from ROLI.
And when you combine their hardware chops with their work on JUCE, you got a recipe for a seriously sweet offering.
This freedom is part of the reason this forum holds such a special position in the iOS musicking scene. If @Sebastian and the gang had decided to restrict conversations to AB, chances are that the platform wouldn’t have taken off in precisely the way that it has.
Besides, we do keep going back to the core topics, though by some winding ways. Now that AB3 routes MIDI, these MPE controllers can play an important role in the AB ecosystem. For instance, @JohannesD could create a new MIDIflow app which integrates multiple MIDI inputs into a coherent MPE controller. In fact, since MPE is largely based on channel differentiation, there would be a lot of sense in that kind of development. Or you could use a MIDIflow filter to split MPE into separate synth and audio filter apps...
It may all sound crazy and unrelated, but there’s a thread through all of these things.
Oh? Anything specific you’re thinking about? Are there rumours of something coming which will supersede Kyma?
(By the way, my comment about coffee was the Kyma-controlled superautomatic espresso machine used to show that batch processing time is quick. As a barista judge, was unimpressed by the bubbly mixture this machine produced.)
Thanks! Had never heard the backstory! Really good to know.
And things do come full circle.
Not expecting Apple to fulfill our needs anytime soon, but it’s fascinating how just a few key iOS features with unnerving limitations have been at the centre of something quite significant in terms of music making. Ok, sure, the overall music world may not be fawning over our beloved apps. But we certainly have come a long way in terms of getting a rich ecosystem.
To me, there are just a few little pieces missing to make iOS devices into ideal tools for music. Not broad categories of apps and maybe not even breakthroughs in API support or hardware features. While an iPad Pro with 3D Touch would be a very compelling musicking device, the fact that Apple hasn’t released one (yet?) doesn’t really mean there’s a glaring hole. The Files app in iOS 11 will help enhance many workflows but it’s unlikely to change things in a radical way.
Come to think of it, the change which could happen is in the wider world of music technology. ROLI, Yamaha, Akai, Waldorf, Korg, Native Instruments, Moog, Arturia, and Novation already pay attention to iOS. (Is there Roland software on iOS?) Manufacturers may be hedging their bets and some products may be afterthoughts. Indie developers might dislike their presence in the field. But it’s a sign that something has been happening.
There have also been a number of trends in the overall space. Like the move to “dumb controllers” and the recent move back to standalones. Or, perhaps more relevant, the move towards reusable material like stems and soundpacks. Many of us may use the @blocsxnovation sapps in our own ways, but their “consumables” are part of a significant model.
In other words, the way iOS devices fit into the bigger picture may change more than a thorough rethinking of Inter-App Audio and Core MIDI.
Good to know.
Funny! Been following Ashley’s work for quite a few years, including in my few experiments using PalmOS devices for musicking. Never really paid much attention to the comments, in part because of that very 4chan style you describe. Been going back to his blog quite regularly, still not engaging in the comments. Did post a few comments on CDM and MusicAppBlog. But this forum is really where my interest in iOS musicking took a turn for the worst best.
3D touch on a surface that doesn't give in (like a haken continuum) doesn't make much sense anyway. It's not playable because it lacks haptic feedback.
Does levels of rumble count as feedback, harder you push the more rumble??
It should! And it could certainly help.
And, sorry to disagree with Sebastian, but some of us find quite a bit of sense in 3D Touch, even without haptic feedback. Of course, it’d be nice to have a complete tactile experience, even with surface texture and everything. But ThumbJam and Seaboard 5D sure are playable as the feedback is in the sound produced.
It can be a strange experience, but it works. To me, it’s a bit like the (new to me) experience of producing sound at a distance, say through a speaker on stage when you don’t have a monitor. It feels really weird, but it does work. And it has worked for generations of players since the invention of amplifiers.
Met someone recently who has lost hearing in one ear. Part of his interest in wind instruments stems from the fact that you can feel the vibration very directly. We were talking about wind controllers and it’s now very clear to me that he’d hate them. Wasn’t noticing the lack of direct feedback so much while playing with headphones. But having played twice with my wind controller driving an iPad connected to an amplifier at some distance from me, it’s now painfully obvious that it requires some adaptation.
But it does work. Musickers can adapt to all sorts of situations. Pressure sensitivity without tactile response does feel a bit weird, but it’s already an enhancement over tapping virtual keys with a set velocity. To me, at least, it feels much more natural than hitting different points on a key’s Y axis. My first time with 3D Touch on ThumbJam’s shakuhachi was one of those deep experiences which made me really enthusiastic about iOS musicking. We might all be sensitive to different things but it was the kind of occasion where you go: “Oh, yeah, this can work.”
In another thread I mentioned some things simmering on my stove? Yeah, one of them smells a lot like this
Really like that smell!
And, by the way, been on the record for years about ThumJam being among my favourite musicking apps. Including during public presentations. Somewhat surprised that it doesn’t come up more often, in here.
Whatever you release is very likely to make me very happy.
And the Seaboard Block is getting part of the way there.
https://roli.com/products/blocks/seaboard-block
My idevices give in too if i hit them hard
But i think i would break an iPad Pro 12.9" in the middle if i would hit them hard like my Seaboard (this thing is build like a tank for sure).
In general i agree but i also disagree in terms of playable. Otherwise all music apps would be obsolete without an extern midi controller. Of course the visual feedback is very important here. The Moog and Roli apps shows how it can work.
But yes, nothing compared to a Seaboard or other MPE controllers. They also have much much more accurate sensors inside for this area. On a Seaboard it makes a big different how much amount of your finger you use. If you slide with a finger tip or the flat thumb etc.
As we know some apps (like Mitosynth) using a similar trick to messure how much amount of the finger is on the screen. Of course it has not the high quality effect i would like to have.
But idevices also have some other great tricks trough all the mobile sensors. I still love to shake the phone for vibrato in ThumbJam.
In a way, we’re waiting for Apple to do to those MPE devices what it did to Wacom Cintiq. Sure, the iPad Pro with Pencil may lack some of the precision of a dedicated device. But the advantages are really remarkable.
As you said earlier, @Cib, the technology exists, already. What Apple has in its overall portfolio is already pretty useful, and does including haptic/taptic feedback, apart from the existing 3D/Force Touch. But the company hasn’t spread those features across the line. There might be deep technological challenges preventing them from doing so. But this is an area where they do have a leg up on most other manufacturers.
As we’ve been discussing in the thread on hardware manufacturers, there’s an interesting convergence happening. Even if we do consider iOS devices “useless” without a hardware controller (which, chances are, would be a piano player’s kneejerk reaction to any kind of virtual keyboard), there’s an increasing number of hardware controllers which can work well with iOS apps.
In a way, the MIDI input slots in AB3 represent this pretty clearly. Of course, many of them can be sequencers or generators. But the most important input devices for performance may remain hardware ones (including a second iOS device, as per the recent @Shazamm demo in iOS 11). My vote would still go to things like AC Sabre and ThumbJam, as they really fit my musicking style. But, for the sake of argument, let’s say the emphasis could remain on hardware device at this point.
The MIDI FX section is purely iOS software, right? And while there’s a lot of cool stuff happening with MIDI output to hardware (including with dadamachines and others using iOS apps for sequencing), we all perceive a clear role for tons of iOS apps and Audio Units in this category.
My hope is that, one day, we get an iOS device which can truly rival dedicated hardware fitting AB3’s MIDI IN slots. @Sebastian may think we’re far from that but, thankfully, AB3 offers great support for software MIDI inputs.
I'm just starting to wonder how many taptic engines would be needed to cover the entire surface of the iPad so we'd have a somewhat similar 'haptic feedback' when touching the screen.
The vibrations reduce the longer away from the taptic engine the tap is.
(At least that's the case on iPhone 7/7+).
As for pressure sensitivity and accelerometer based velocity I personally prefer dedicated controllers.
And if onscreen velocity is absolutely needed the 'Y-Axis Velocity' is more than enough for me.
(Cubasis has one of the best onscreen-keyboards/pads out there).