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OT: Why Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible? (Video by Thoughty2)

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Comments

  • edited August 2017

    @cian said:
    It's funny, but that Elvis Costello song typifies what I dislike so much about politics in pop music, but he's written a number of political songs that actually work. Shipbuilding is a great, true, song. Whereas that other song is just a rant. I mean I agree with it, but it's not great.

    Issue songs can work. That Marvin Gaye song is great because he's singing from his lived experience. It's not an ishoo song, or a right on song about the latest political pet cause, it's about his life. The Dylan song in contrast works because it tells a story very well, and (mostly) lets the story make it's point. So many political songs tell you how to feel about something, rather than trusting you to come up with your own perspective.

    So yeah I was exaggerating a bit - but the hit/miss ratio for political songs is very low.

    Same could be said about fellatio I guess, but people will keep on writing about what interests them the most...

  • @greengrocer said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    To do a little remix of your post I would say...

    The truth is that the people 'in charge' are not at all interested in art, this is true from the top bosses down to the promoters / managers...and down to the average consumer.

    Yes indeed, this is a very good point...most are not interested in anything that is not 'the big thing'....

    And to even use the word art elicits a 'you think yer somethin' special?' raised eyebrow.

    Yes indeed, i used the word loosely, what I meant was that they don't care what it sounds like, it is whether it will easily make them money that they care about.....this is where the money people and the consumer do differ....if a consumer hears something they like they will get interested....it is getting them to find it that's difficult as they have no real desire to seek it out, it needs to be forced in front of them, which for an independent means getting it trending on one of the social media platforms, or standing in front of them and playing it to them (if you can get them to stand/sit still long enough)

    Then what are the odds that the person who does stop and listen is actually into it? There is tons of brilliant, amazing, fantastic art in the world that I don't like.

    You just have to keep going in the hope that one day someone who IS into it hears it, and then they go and tell someone else about it, and so on......that is how pretty much everything becomes a thing that people are into..the more people you get to stop, the more chance there is of that happening.

    I've been doing this for more than 30 years and it ain't happened yet, but then again, I haven't yet made anything I truly believe in, so i haven't tried to push it...I just throw it out there and mess around with the next piece. That is my fault, nobody else's....

    The best succes I had is back in the early y2ks when i had a visual art website and my music on it, with regular visitors, before social media was a thing. I am sure a lot of the 'success' i had was because there simply were not a lot of people into my then small pond doing what i was doing, but now i just have zero motivation to wade into the waters of social media douchiness. The interfaces alone look so gross and demotivating. Yay, i am a tiny thumbnail on someones phone in a stream of ugly visual noise haha. :)

    Agree Especially in the beginning the internet was an experimental medium and attracted DIY people looking for other DIY nowadays internet has become mostly a pure consumption medium. In those early days there were a lot of dediacted website doing interactive visuals with sounds (soundtoys) I think the decay came because the (social media) consumers took over and of course the change to tablets and smartphone apps were promoted.

    In my case the site just had my images in one section and unrelated music in another. I never have got into melding the two much. Could be cool to do something in Unity/VR one day if there is a non gaming market of some sort.

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  • @cian said:
    It's funny, but that Elvis Costello song typifies what I dislike so much about politics in pop music, but he's written a number of political songs that actually work. Shipbuilding is a great, true, song. Whereas that other song is just a rant. I mean I agree with it, but it's not great.

    Issue songs can work. That Marvin Gaye song is great because he's singing from his lived experience. It's not an ishoo song, or a right on song about the latest political pet cause, it's about his life. The Dylan song in contrast works because it tells a story very well, and (mostly) lets the story make it's point. So many political songs tell you how to feel about something, rather than trusting you to come up with your own perspective.

    So yeah I was exaggerating a bit - but the hit/miss ratio for political songs is very low.

    '80s, '90s political songs were dreadful — Midnight Oil, Cranberries, Sinéad O'Connor etc... the political stuff ruins the albums for me. Horrible ham fisted lyrics.

  • edited August 2017

    @pichi said:

    @cian said:
    It's funny, but that Elvis Costello song typifies what I dislike so much about politics in pop music, but he's written a number of political songs that actually work. Shipbuilding is a great, true, song. Whereas that other song is just a rant. I mean I agree with it, but it's not great.

    Issue songs can work. That Marvin Gaye song is great because he's singing from his lived experience. It's not an ishoo song, or a right on song about the latest political pet cause, it's about his life. The Dylan song in contrast works because it tells a story very well, and (mostly) lets the story make it's point. So many political songs tell you how to feel about something, rather than trusting you to come up with your own perspective.

    So yeah I was exaggerating a bit - but the hit/miss ratio for political songs is very low.

    '80s, '90s political songs were dreadful — Midnight Oil, Cranberries, Sinéad O'Connor etc... the political stuff ruins the albums for me. Horrible ham fisted lyrics.

    Toast, I guess. I think Black Boys on Mopeds is a terrific 'protest song' of that era. Certainly spoke very clearly (no ham-fists there) about what was going on to the black boys in my part of South-East London...

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  • edited August 2017
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  • @Max23 I'm sorry, but you're wrong my friend, the whole point is that everybody's got taste.

  • edited August 2017
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  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @pichi said:

    @cian said:
    It's funny, but that Elvis Costello song typifies what I dislike so much about politics in pop music, but he's written a number of political songs that actually work. Shipbuilding is a great, true, song. Whereas that other song is just a rant. I mean I agree with it, but it's not great.

    Issue songs can work. That Marvin Gaye song is great because he's singing from his lived experience. It's not an ishoo song, or a right on song about the latest political pet cause, it's about his life. The Dylan song in contrast works because it tells a story very well, and (mostly) lets the story make it's point. So many political songs tell you how to feel about something, rather than trusting you to come up with your own perspective.

    So yeah I was exaggerating a bit - but the hit/miss ratio for political songs is very low.

    '80s, '90s political songs were dreadful — Midnight Oil, Cranberries, Sinéad O'Connor etc... the political stuff ruins the albums for me. Horrible ham fisted lyrics.

    Toast, I guess. I think Black Boys on Mopeds is a terrific 'protest song' of that era. Certainly spoke very clearly (no ham-fists there) about what was going on to the black boys in my part of South-East London...

    Cool. Context, I guess. I didn't know anything about the background to the song. Being from down south I understood what Midnight Oil was saying. I just find it cringeworthy to listen to, though the performances were great.

  • @cian said:
    It's funny, but that Elvis Costello song typifies what I dislike so much about politics in pop music, but he's written a number of political songs that actually work. Shipbuilding is a great, true, song. Whereas that other song is just a rant. I mean I agree with it, but it's not great.

    Interesting, how one person hears one thing and another something else.

    Tramp Down the Dirt, for me, is a very moving song not so much about Thatcher in person, as about the effects of the doctrine she espoused.

    What's Goin' On, is an isssue song, and that issue was the Vietnam war.

    Hurricane, not only tells a true story, but attempts to embarrass the guilty, intensely corrupt, racist America of the day into doing the right thing.

    As for political music guiding its audience, some people need that guidance. NOT, in terms of being pushed to vote one way or the other, but generally. For example, many Americans think 'Born in the USA' is a patriotic song, because they don't listen to anything but the chorus. Thus missing the point of what Springsteen was saying.

    Neil Young, on the other hand, cleverly manages to support the 'free world' (which he now knows isn't quite so free as he thought) but also slips in great lines such as 'Don't feel like Satan, but I am to them.'

  • @Max23 said:
    As long as music expresses things I can't say everything is fine

    Why can't you say these things yourself?

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  • @Max23 said:

    Why can't you say these things yourself?

    I can but it says them in a way I haven't thought of

    Okay, got what you mean now. :)

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  • edited August 2017
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  • edited August 2017

    Kanye west is better than everyone else to somebody else, on the other hand some body else is better than everyone else to somebody else. The fact that anyone thinks any of it matters outside of themselves is what makes it funny.

  • edited August 2017
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  • edited August 2017

    @Max23 said:
    This is some newer pop stuff I find good

    I quite like Lily Allen, she's funny. But these tracks ain't new, they're almost 10 years old... That's what happens when you get old, it all seems like just yesterday. But to a young person 10 years is like a lifetime ago. When these songs were hits Amy Winehouse was still alive (and Duffy was still a thing), and the world had never heard of Katy Perry or Taylor Swift, it was a very different pop landscape.

  • edited August 2017

    @Max23 said:
    BTW I found old pictures of Elton john who would have a thought he had a nice behind?

    David Furnish?

    Just in case you aren't familiar, he is EJ's SO. An independent film maker making independent films independently, financed and usually about EJ. :*

  • lol zen, thanks for the nitecap

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    Toast, I guess. I think Black Boys on Mopeds is a terrific 'protest song' of that era. Certainly spoke very clearly (no ham-fists there) about what was going on to the black boys in my part of South-East London...

    true dat.

  • @cian said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    Toast, I guess. I think Black Boys on Mopeds is a terrific 'protest song' of that era. Certainly spoke very clearly (no ham-fists there) about what was going on to the black boys in my part of South-East London...

    true dat.

    probably her best ever moment that one.

  • edited August 2017

    @Zen210507 said:

    @cian said:

    @mannix said:

    My opinion is that pop artists with political opinions are an embarrassment to the human race.

    Hurricane - Bob Dylan
    Lives in the Balance - Jackson Browne
    Tramp Down the Dirt - Elvis Costello
    War - Edwin Starr
    Rockin' in the Free World - Neil Young
    Working Class Hero - John Lennon
    Going Backwards - Depeche Mode
    Sympathy For the Devil - Rolling Stones
    God Save the Queen - Sex Pistols
    What's Goin' On - Marvin Gaye
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised - Gil Scott-Heron
    A Change is Gonna Come - Sam Cooke

    There's no problem for me with political messages in music, in fact they could create awareness and open discussions. The problem nowadays is that everything is drawn into to political domain (to a degree that is beyond absurd) by a group of people that are not afraid to silence messages that they don't like (through social media bans). An example how things also could be played is Lynyrd Skynyrd's response to the endless bitching about people in the Southern States (because of their more conservative view) and the generalization that all Southerners are the same type of people. In fact their protest song Home Sweet Alabama became a classic. In the playing field nowadays it's impossible to imagine such a response and even becoming a hit.

  • edited August 2017

    @greengrocer said:
    ..people that are not afraid to silence messages that they don't like (through social media bans).

    Yes, this is another serious failing of (anti) social media. They only want freedom of speech until you say something they don't like. Then supposedly leftist liberal people can get far more aggressive and far keener on censorship than the right of politics. If it wasn't so damn dangerous and hypocritical, it'd be funny.

    Lynyrd Skynyrd is a great example, BTW.

    I am also reminded of Ghost Town by the Specials, which did help to marshal the nation against the wrongs being done to sections of the UK.

    https://youtu.be/RZ2oXzrnti4

  • Some current pop stuff:

    The last Bon Iver album. Kanye West (annoying guy - amazing producer). Blood Orange - Freetown Sound. Skepta - Konnichiwa. Frank Ocean (both albums). Dawn - Redemption (and Dawn Richard's earlier stuff). Fat White Family. Jessy Lanza - Oh No. Solange - A Seat At The Table. Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp A Butterfly. Algiers - The Underside of Power. Bjork - Vulnicura. RP Boo - Fingers, Bank Pads & Shoe Prints. Burial. Nidia Minaj (if you're Portuguese). Young Thug. Sleaford Mods. Ibibo Sound Machine (pop music is global ya know). Kendrick Lamar. British Sea Power. Jane Weaver.

    This was huge in Jamaica, and parts of London/New York (hey pop music can be local maaan):

  • @greengrocer said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @cian said:

    @mannix said:

    My opinion is that pop artists with political opinions are an embarrassment to the human race.

    Hurricane - Bob Dylan
    Lives in the Balance - Jackson Browne
    Tramp Down the Dirt - Elvis Costello
    War - Edwin Starr
    Rockin' in the Free World - Neil Young
    Working Class Hero - John Lennon
    Going Backwards - Depeche Mode
    Sympathy For the Devil - Rolling Stones
    God Save the Queen - Sex Pistols
    What's Goin' On - Marvin Gaye
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised - Gil Scott-Heron
    A Change is Gonna Come - Sam Cooke

    There's no problem for me with political messages in music, in fact to could create awareness and open discussions. The problem nowadays is that everything is drawn into to political domain (to a degree that is beyond absurd) by een group of people that are not afraid to silence messages that they don't like (through social media bans). An example how things also could be played is Lynyrd Skynyrd's response to the endless bitching about people in the Southern States (because of their more conservative view) and the generalizaion that all Southerners are the same type of people. In fact their protest song Home Sweet Alabama became a classic. In the playing field nowadays it's impossible to imagine such a response and even becoming a hit.

    You say conservative views, I say damn racist.

    No not all southerners are the same - but the culture they celebrate is backward, racist, unequal, oppressive and cruel. And the confederates that too many of them are nostalgic about were the Nazis of their era. Though to be fair the Nazis could make the trains run on time - Southern elites are ****ing useless at doing anything other than continuing their pampered, indolent, selfish, self-indulgent lives.

    I live in the South near the buckle of the bible belt so you know - this is based upon experience.

    Musically the song is fine - but lyrically... Good god.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @greengrocer said:
    ..people that are not afraid to silence messages that they don't like (through social media bans).

    Yes, this is another serious failing of (anti) social media. They only want freedom of speech until you say something they don't like. Then supposedly leftist liberal people can get far more aggressive and far keener on censorship than the right of politics. If it wasn't so damn dangerous and hypocritical, it'd be funny.

    Lynyrd Skynyrd is a great example, BTW.

    I am also reminded of Ghost Town by the Specials, which did help to marshal the nation against the wrongs being done to sections of the UK.

    https://youtu.be/RZ2oXzrnti4

    Assuming you live in the UK - have you seen the Sun/Mail/Telegraph. BAN THIS FILTH NOW! If you live in the US - Fox news pushing boycotts of the Dixie Chicks will do just as well. Or the way Right wing trolls try to destroy people they dislike online/offline.

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