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A newbie's struggle with BM3

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Comments

  • edited August 2017

    @JudgeDredd said:

    I purchased BM3 the day of the release, hearing that this was going to be the end all to music production on my iPad.
    >

    Hopefully, you have learned from this that some apps generate an enthusiastic fervour. Usually, those expressing excitement are genuine, at least here, but that doesn't necessarily mean you or I will be quite so enthused.

    BM3 is a different way to make music and put projects together. Different to the ways I usually work, with the likes of Cubasis and Auria Pro. To be honest, I wavered one way then the other concerning BM3, and was eventually persuaded by the experience of my peers here, that it was a worthwhile addiition. Since buying it I have done very little with the app, prefering to wait until the bugs are mostly sorted, then put in the time to learn the app.

    So in summary, don't let your experience put you off, not every app suits every person. I had BeatHawk for a long time, and just could not get on with it, despite the app having really good sound packs. Then, one day, I saw an AudioDabbler video that helped me to understand what I'd missed before. I still don't use it that much, but am glad I bought it. This, I hope, will also be the case with BM3.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • edited August 2017

    Started a new track in BM3 this morning, after a few weeks of not using it, and got completely stumped by the workflow. Loaded a drum bank, recorded two patterns, then tried adding pattern 1 to the timeline - wouldn't have it, kept placing pattern 2 instead. Rebooted the app, did it fine. Then tried to get out of pattern mode, and play the song I'd started. Again, not having it. 'Play song' link wasn't there, tapping the usual sequence if things, and rebooting had no effect. Created a second bank, and the 'play song' link was visible.

    I stick to my initial conclusion that the workflow UI is a confusing mess, and really needs a rethink. I'm not completely thick, but struggling to change modes a few weeks after being able to do it, tells me this is not an intuitive UI.

    At the very least a couple of buttons on the main top menu to switch modes would be a good start.

  • edited August 2017

    Me too - I got it on release, avoided it when there was so many problems/bugs, and now really not sure it's 100% for me as the workflow design is cumbersome.
    I totally get some people dive in and furiously get to know how to get around all of the ways to make it work,
    but I'm a get to work sort of guy - who wants to urgently create, not spend my valuable time sorting through complex app designs that i feel should be more simplified...

    ATM - I'm happier using a collage of other apps talking to each other, and BM3 as a partner to work together with other more instant apps.

    But still up for giving it further attention - especially as it evolves.

  • I dabble in it occasionally because of its power and cool factor. But when I want to make music GarageBand plus AU just seems to have the least amount of friction. Just wish I could use EOS 2 on the send bus.

  • ok, so I read through several posts, watched some vids, read some more of the manual ... I'm not giving up on this app.

    Regarding au instruments, I read that you can:
    1) sample the instrument and play via the pads
    or
    2) play the instrument via midi without sampling.

    Is this true? For some reason I though that the instrument needed to be sampled, could be just another of example of me not reading the manual thoroughly enough but ...
    Is option 2 the way it was intended to be used or is it a kluge? I'm trying to understand how I can use BM3 effectively and thoroughly and to best reach my own workflow. Thanks!
    (ps - always wonder if I should reopen old threads or start new ones)

  • @kinkujin
    You can do both. Sometimes someone will sample the synth and then remove it and just play the samples... saves resources cpu. Or you can definitely play midi. I recommend watching some of Deans videos. He does a great job of talking about this.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX1L0U_AaeJrmRVr8JhCq0g

    Cheers.

  • Thanks Chaz!

  • edited July 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @kinkujin said:
    ok, so I read through several posts, watched some vids, read some more of the manual ... I'm not giving up on this app.

    Regarding au instruments, I read that you can:
    1) sample the instrument and play via the pads
    or
    2) play the instrument via midi without sampling.

    Is this true? For some reason I though that the instrument needed to be sampled, could be just another of example of me not reading the manual thoroughly enough but ...
    Is option 2 the way it was intended to be used or is it a kluge? I'm trying to understand how I can use BM3 effectively and thoroughly and to best reach my own workflow. Thanks!
    (ps - always wonder if I should reopen old threads or start new ones)

    Go to your mixer, select a bank track, go to the menu at the top left, go over to plug-ins, select an UA plug in, this will load an AU into that bank, now go to your keyboard at the bottom left and you will see the AU loaded. This is the workflow path to bypass the sample section entirely. You can record midi directly from here or sample if you want to.

  • Yeah! Thanks shiftsynth!

    Another question, and feel free to tell me rtfm, but ...
    The bank thing is confusing to me. Is a bank one instrument? For example, I load I dunno, model 15 au, and that is it's own bank? Then select one of the included sample packs for bass, and that is a separate bank, correct? Then you record/sequence the banks into a pattern. Then the patterns are loaded into a song, etc.?

    Honestly, I've never felt so stupid trying to get my head around something before.

  • @mAxjUlien said:

    @kinkujin said:
    ok, so I read through several posts, watched some vids, read some more of the manual ... I'm not giving up on this app.

    Regarding au instruments, I read that you can:
    1) sample the instrument and play via the pads
    or
    2) play the instrument via midi without sampling.

    Is this true? For some reason I though that the instrument needed to be sampled, could be just another of example of me not reading the manual thoroughly enough but ...
    Is option 2 the way it was intended to be used or is it a kluge? I'm trying to understand how I can use BM3 effectively and thoroughly and to best reach my own workflow. Thanks!
    (ps - always wonder if I should reopen old threads or start new ones)

    BM3 is an AU host and sampler. You can load any AU instrument and play via 16/64 pads or keyboard. You can also load AU midi app like Rozeta on a pad and have it play for you. Or...you can sample or chop any audio file to pad/Keys.

    BM3 has a bunch of workflows and ways to do things. Sometimes I use Song Mode. Sometimes I use Scene Mode. Sometimes I use both. Sometimes I just use the sampler to auto chop a bunch of audio files and create Banks (library) of shit to use later. Sometimes I use the pattern explorer to just fire away endless patterns/loops of a favorite sound/AU Synth.

    Endless ways to compose with BM3.

    Damn, good to know someone has it all figured out! B)

  • @kinkujin said:
    Yeah! Thanks shiftsynth!

    Another question, and feel free to tell me rtfm, but ...
    The bank thing is confusing to me. Is a bank one instrument? For example, I load I dunno, model 15 au, and that is it's own bank? Then select one of the included sample packs for bass, and that is a separate bank, correct? Then you record/sequence the banks into a pattern. Then the patterns are loaded into a song, etc.?

    Honestly, I've never felt so stupid trying to get my head around something before.

    I am right there with you, feeling like a dummy. :)

    I think the banks are sets of 128 pads. The pads can by loaded with one-shot samples, and then that bank would function like a drum pad type of instrument. But each pad can also be a pitched instrument, so you play this single pad like a synth. Then one bank can hold 128 different pitched instruments.

    It may seem like I might know something, but that’s really about as far as I got. :p
    I don’t understand the “why” of the different modes very well at all. Maybe if I used an SP1200 instead of a cassette 4-Track back in the day, this stuff would make more sense.

    I don’t even know why I am commenting on a BM3 thread. Guess I just can’t help myself when it comes to trying to help others. ;)

  • I appreciate you jumping in to help. Whether you know what you're doing or not. hehe

    I guess I just need to get my head around the terminology. A pad to me is a drum pad, one sound. Hit pad, it goes boom. Not a whole instrument. Anyhow, I'll get it. I hope ...

  • @kinkujin said:
    I appreciate you jumping in to help. Whether you know what you're doing or not. hehe

    I guess I just need to get my head around the terminology. A pad to me is a drum pad, one sound. Hit pad, it goes boom. Not a whole instrument. Anyhow, I'll get it. I hope ...

    I think the creators thought process started as a sample pad. So here is how I think it went:

    1) Make a sample pad based DAW where people hit a 16 pad bank of sounds and make beats, they can midi sequence those pads.
    2) The inherent weakness of a sample pad is the lack of pitching so then they went the route of allowing a person to pitch any single sample pad. This is not an unusual approach. Beathawk did the exact same thing. This requires a drill down into 1 single pad to get to the keyboard (Pitch selection). So we are now in the second layer (each pad has its own second layer). This layer can also be midi sequenced. If you toggle the "Keys" button this is a simple way of drilling down into that layer for any specific pad that is selected.
    (Note that a full song can be made out of just 1 single bank! If you have a hard time with this concept get beathawk, they force you to use 1 single bank. The concept is the same. furthermore, each bank has its own mixer, if you double tab on a bank within the mixer section you will see that it opens up a whole new mixer for each pad in the bank)
    3) Allow people multiple banks so that they can create and save banks and then pull those banks into any project. They do this simply to allow people to use pre-designed banks and to help people organize. However, this adds confusion due to the huge number of options this opens.

    It is important to reiterate that an entire song can be done in one single bank, in fact, it might help you get the workflow down if you do so.

    Hope this helps you understand the architecture.

  • Thanks shiftsynth1,
    When you said, " The concept is the same. furthermore, each bank has its own mixer, if you double tab on a bank within the mixer section you will see that it opens up a whole new mixer for each pad in the bank", a little light went on. I watched a Henny video yesterday where he clicked on a mixer for a drum bank and voila, there was another mixer (sub mix?). So that's cool.

    So, the Beathawk parallel is you have a pad, then if you want to play that pad sound as a melodic instrument you hit "keys". This is "pitch selection" or something in BM3? I'll find it.

    Your explanation helps. Alot.

  • @shiftsynth1 said:

    @kinkujin said:
    I appreciate you jumping in to help. Whether you know what you're doing or not. hehe

    I guess I just need to get my head around the terminology. A pad to me is a drum pad, one sound. Hit pad, it goes boom. Not a whole instrument. Anyhow, I'll get it. I hope ...

    I think the creators thought process started as a sample pad. So here is how I think it went:

    1) Make a sample pad based DAW where people hit a 16 pad bank of sounds and make beats, they can midi sequence those pads.
    2) The inherent weakness of a sample pad is the lack of pitching so then they went the route of allowing a person to pitch any single sample pad. This is not an unusual approach. Beathawk did the exact same thing. This requires a drill down into 1 single pad to get to the keyboard (Pitch selection). So we are now in the second layer (each pad has its own second layer). This layer can also be midi sequenced. If you toggle the "Keys" button this is a simple way of drilling down into that layer for any specific pad that is selected.
    (Note that a full song can be made out of just 1 single bank! If you have a hard time with this concept get beathawk, they force you to use 1 single bank. The concept is the same. furthermore, each bank has its own mixer, if you double tab on a bank within the mixer section you will see that it opens up a whole new mixer for each pad in the bank)
    3) Allow people multiple banks so that they can create and save banks and then pull those banks into any project. They do this simply to allow people to use pre-designed banks and to help people organize. However, this adds confusion due to the huge number of options this opens.

    It is important to reiterate that an entire song can be done in one single bank, in fact, it might help you get the workflow down if you do so.

    Hope this helps you understand the architecture.

    Well put! Get beathawk, which is very good at what it does, get frustrated by what it can’t do, then go back to BM3 and a whole world will open up to you (well, it did for me anyway) 😊

  • @shiftsynth1 Excellent explanation. Thanks for that. I have been getting used to using BeatHawk as a midi driven sound module, since I bought so many sound packs on sale. What you have explained really helps. When that BM3 update drops, I should be way more comfortable working with it.

  • @kinkujin said:
    So, the Beathawk parallel is you have a pad, then if you want to play that pad sound as a melodic instrument you hit "keys". This is "pitch selection" or something in BM3? I'll find it.

    BM3 has a "Keys" button on the performance layout. It is to the right of the pads, the top right button. It turns the layout into a pad style keyboard for the pad that is currently select. In beathawk it is to the left of the pads and is called "Pitch", does the same thing.

  • Thanks! This thread and the commentators have been a huge help. Feels like I’m making a wee bit of progress.

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