Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
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Comments
I try to limit my purchases under 20 € monthly. Not a rule written on stone. I can't reject a bargain.
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With you @simon. I'm app saturated at this point. If an interesting app on sale comes along, I might jump at it but otherwise I've been very good at keeping my app purchases at a minimum lately. AB effect slot apps are still generally interesting.
At 935568 or so apps installed, most anything else is just stuff I want vs stuff I need. Actually, I think having so many apps already works as a distraction for me as opposed to extra inspiration.
I think this fits with one of the other discussion threads about apps purchased and pricing models going forward. Consensus seemed to be that IAPs are the way to go to continue to support developers and most people here would gladly do that. However, I know there are certain apps I would jump on in a minute, both because I love them and to support the developer, and a bunch I wouldn't. I've don't want to know what I've spent on music apps -- probably $700+ -- not to mention that the Audiobus/Auria double whammy in January prompted me to upgrade to a 64GB iPad4! And this is just a hobby. I know that when the second wave of upgrades come, I'll probably be much more selective about pulling the trigger. I justify by saying they're cheap enough to try 'em all, then whittle it down to the ones I really like.
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Razor blades.
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I'd say razor blades (and printer cartridges) are actually more of the subscription model. Apps in general are the razor blades here and iOS devices are the razor. Thing is, you can ditch your razor company if a new line of razor comes out for 15-25 bucks. With the amount we've invested in apps, it's hard to imagine a new device replacing our razors anytime soon.
@simon learning new apps (and being wowed going through synth app presets or whatever) is what I meant by apps becoming a distraction vs new inspiration. But I totally agree on the entertainment value (as well as preferring my $10 going to an indie developer vs a mega movie studio). That feeling has sustained most of my purchases actually!
Funny I said almost the same exact thing earlier today on a thread in the FB iPad Musicians group about expensive apps having free/lite versions (or lack thereof).
"Free versions of apps will almost always cannibalize sales, not because the app isn't worth buying but because the free version typically gives you much of the value you were going to get from the paid version. For many folks, the initial curiosity to play around with an app for a couple days / weeks to see what it sounds like, how it plays, what it's capable of etc, are a large part of the enjoyment we get from our apps. Most folks here buy tons of apps but end up using the same 10-20 apps repeatedly when it comes time to actually record a song. Despite this, we keep buying the new ones, knowing full-well that the chances we'd be using that new $10 synth a year from now are perhaps 10% or lower. This indicates that we do feel like those first few days / weeks of exploration and discovery are worth the $10 price of admission (much better value than a movie ticket). If the app turns out to have legs, all the better.
IMO the best way to treat this value equation is via IAPs. Make the base app cheap (not free) so people can pay a low price for the privilege of exploration and discovery, and if they find that the app fits well into their arsenal, then they pay up to get the full feature set."
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@Simon You're right that the free vs paid question is separate from saturation, the connection I was making was with your and @syrupcore's comments regarding entertainment value of discovering and digging into new apps, and thus my thought that even a lite version of an app (e.g. no ACP, no AB, no MIDI etc) would still offer much of that entertainment value so the consumer might not have enough incentive left to buy the full version.
The saturation is, I suspect, partly a feeling of 'how many apps am I ever going to use in a song anyway' (I suspect most of us passed that point a long time ago) and partly a feeling of 'I don't care to watch a movie every single week' (translated to 'I don't care to learn a new app every single week, no matter how entertaining that may be') - I suspect this is the saturation you guys are feeling these days.
Actually videogames are probably a better comparison point for the entertainment value (and time requirement) of apps. Unlike a 2-hour movie, a videogame takes from 8-100 hours to 'complete' (not counting multiplayer) and, at least for me, the first hour often gives me most of the entertainment value of the game. If I really like the game after an hour I may then decide to go 'all-in' and play the whole thing, but more often I realize that I'd be happy enough if I stopped after that first hour and tried something else instead. Even if I move on I don't consider that first hour wasted - it's fun to discover new game mechanics, art styles, characters and environments - but after that diminishing returns set in. As a result I decided long ago to almost never buy $60 games, but instead rent them for that first hour of play, and then buy only if I was going all-in (and the game was too long to complete during its rental period). Saved me a ton of money.
Unfortunately the App Store doesn't really allow time-limited 'rentals' of apps. So the next best thing probably is the base+IAP model.
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@Simon yeah so wrt being done with synths, I imagine that must have happened a long time ago, i.e. before Nave and Thor came out? The way I see it, you first get saturated with apps as tools, and later get saturated with apps as entertainment. As tools, synths have been saturated for a long time, but only recently might they be also getting saturated as entertainment.
Luckily for my wallet, I'm not into electronic music so synths aren't useful tools for me. And because I don't know a thing about synths, I find all their knobs and options way overwhelming and intimidating, so the entertainment value doesn't factor in either. The only synths I buy are out of curiosity wrt what everyone's going on about, and I usually don't use them more than once...
I think the main area where people aren't yet saturated is in the interface itself. For the most part we've standardized on ~3 playable interface types: scale-locked keyboard (TJ), chords + strumming (guitar apps, Chordion, polychord), and 2D fretboard (Geo / iFretless). Pretty much every app uses these (or the mostly-unplayable regular piano keyboard). So when something like TC-11 comes along, it's a breath of fresh air, and the entertainment value is sky high.
As for me,i definitely bought some apps that have a"free trial"version.LiveFX is an example,you can test it with 3 Audiofiles/tracks that ships with the app and AB functionality is interrupted by a"noise"or something every couple of minutes.But all in all that gave me enough impressions to unlock the 10 bucks app.I would not have bought this app without the ability to test it,no matter how many reviews or youtube videos are out there.I wish every App would like to come with such a business model,it would keep me more often from doing an"impulse buy"(and regretting later)and otherwise allows me to test (and buy)apps that i wouldn't even look at usually.
If there's an app that is"probably"interesting but i can't test it,well yes,then i wait for a sale at least.Like a lot of other people.But then that's a loss for the developer,no?
And i disagree regarding that"(game)demos give you at least an hour of fun without paying".I'm a gamer as well and i used to sell games (in a shop)for a couple of years.There are so many"overhyped"games out there,getting high reviews but in 90% of all cases i was glad to have a demo to find out quickly that i don't like em.It's not"an hour of fun"then (at least to me).It feels like work or wasted time ;-)
So,my most favorite business modell for the app store is a"free trial"version and unlock full version via IAP.I definitely don't like to pay for an app and have to pay again for all the fun bringing extras...Possible that i"lost"some apps this way that i otherwise have liked.
Agreed re: the liveFX demo mode. The 'burst of white noise every N seconds" is pretty tried and true in the desktop audio world. He figured out away to get around apples 'useful' clause and I'd be happy to see more devs do the same.
Like dwarman I also have a folder in my Gmail but I'll never refer to it. In fact I don't have any use for it. Hmm. I feel silly now.
Anyhoo, I've spent far too much on apps. Looking back through my purchases, I buy an app, use it for a bit, and move on to the next shiny thing when it comes. There are some I use over and over but I must have chucked away a few hundred quid on apps I don't even have installed.
For me it proves the concept of microtransactions, the kind of business model gaming is embracing now. Free to play games have gone triple A, and are making their money back through tiny little sums at a time. Seems to work the same with these apps, which explains why we all have a kind of cut-off point at which we say 'hmm' instead of 'yes, buy now!'
I think apps like Thor and Turnado would sell better if they were priced a little lower. Speculate to accumulate, eh? I'll always fork out 69p without much thought at all, if it looks diverting. £1.99 or £2.99 is usually not too troubling if it's going to get some good use, but I really do think bloody hard about spending a fiver and upwards.
It's not the value I'm questioning - I have spent thousands on desktop VSTs and hardware - but it just seems there's some kind of barrier there. App store psychology is unusual and disconcerting!
To revive an old thread...
Been thinking a lot about what iOS devices and apps mean for the frugal musician. Assuming one has other reasons to get an iPhone or iPad, there are plenty of apps which provide lower-cost alternatives for musicking fun.
Like others, wouldn’t want to know too much about my app budget. Especially scary to think about paying for all of these apps which “didn’t do it”, for me. If the App Store had trial versions, would have spent way less in apps and would feel much better about paying more for those apps which do “stick”. Abandoned many apps which have received rave reviews. Musicking is a very personal thing and what works for most people may not work for me. But, from videos, reviews, and feature lists, it’s really hard to tell what will work for me. Need to give them a try, at the right moment, with the right mindset.
Thing is, there are many cool apps which require a significant amount of effort. You could do really neat things with them if you practiced, and video demos can be quite inspiring for that. But it’s been hard for me to find enough time to devote to them. In that category would be things like Jasuto, BeatMaker 2, NanoStudio, GeoShred, SunVox, and Model 15 (have yet to buy Model 15 but it sounds quite overwhelming).
In fact, until recently, hadn’t devoted much time to Thor, Sunrizer, Animoog, or NLogSynth Pro, in part because the learning curve sounded scary. Started to understand analog synthesis a bit more and they all started to make more sense. Will probably spend more time playing with them. In fact, the Syntorial dev wrote blogposts about picking a synth and a proper approach to learning synth design. Though they’re not about iOS, these posts are part of what helped me “wrap my head around” those iOS synths.
Having said this, my favourite synth is iWavestation. Bought it on special and hesitated quite a bit. It would have been fairly expensive as an impulse purchase, especially thinking about all those “wasted” apps sitting on my account. Have yet to fully explore it, especially in terms of building my own patches. But the presets suit my 1990s sensibility well enough and it’s already been a lot of fun playing those sounds with my WX-11 Wind Controller.
In fact, it may be obvious to most everyone here, but the true value of musicking apps on iOS often comes through a MIDI connection, especially a USB one. Had purchased a camera connector for my iPad, years ago, but returned it because it didn’t sound like my USB-MIDI adapter worked with it, at the time. So, all of these neat iOS apps were lost on me, for the longest time, not having anything to control them. Eventually purchased the Lightning to USB adapter and was able to use my WX-11 with ThumbJam, my favourite iOS musicking app. Had a whole lot of fun jamming on my own and been thinking about using that setup in performance. Tried it while jamming with friends and a wrong setting on the Wind Controller made it completely out of tune. Corrected that problem and hope to have other occasions to jam with others using my WX-11 and iPhone 6s Plus.
Eventually bought a small USB-MIDI keyboard (Alesis Vmini). Connecting it to my iPhone was an ear-opener. Playing chords on a tiny virtual keyboard isn’t very easy and, until GarageBand and ThumbJam started supporting 3D Touch, it was often impossible to vary intensity with something like velocity. Besides, the knobs on the Vmini allow for easy control on things like filter cutoff and resonance in apps which support MIDI learn. Had hesitated a lot before buying a keyboard, in part because my keyboard skills are just plain laughable. But it was well worth it (and not just for iOS, of course).
Because many fun musicking apps are iPad-only and my third-generation iPad uses the old Dock Connector, had to buy a USB adapter for the old 30-pin standard. Took a while to arrive but it’s been a lot of fun to use iPad apps with MIDI controllers, during the past month or so.
In the meantime, though, discovered MIDImux and Studiomux. Had a hard time to get Studiomux to work reliably but MIDImux is pretty much as good as having a direct connection to a MIDI device in that latency is very low and setup is easy. Of course, you need a desktop/laptop to run it, which makes for a bigger setup, but it works quite well and brings a whole lot of value to these iOS musicking apps.
So, with my current setup, the value proposition of most of the cool music creation apps is much higher than it was just a few weeks ago.
Back to the frugality point, some apps bring incredible value at a very low cost (and, in some cases, no upfront cost). Mentioned some of my favourite iOS apps in another thread. In some ways, they all bring significant value to me. Bought most of them on special (AppShopper really is a frugal musician’s friend). Having used them for a while, would probably have paid more for each of them if it had been possible to get a refund for all those apps which didn’t stick. SampleTank is an example of the latter category (no offense to IK Multimedia). Not that there’s anything inherently wrong with it, but it provided me with much less joy than, say, ThumbJam. And, importantly, it requires way too much space for its use value. Spending money on a so-so app is one thing. Clogging your device with it is another.
Having said all this, there are multiple apps which provide very high value for their price and hardware requirements. Korg Gadget can be such an app for several people. It often goes on special and brings significant value in its basic version (before in-app purchases and extra add-ons). In fact, my thinking about musical frugality was catalysed by the realisation that Gadget comes with a free license for Ableton Live Lite. Had thought about buying Ableton Live Intro, after hearing several people talking about Ableton. But discovering Gadget’s bundled license was such good news for me that it opened up all sorts of possibilities. Of course, the Lite version is severely limited. But it still allowed me to learn a whole lot and works with those iOS apps which export to Ableton Live projects (including Gadget itself).
Possibly the best value for the price is GarageBand. It might not be everyone’s favourite but it’s actually remarkable in its affordances. Contrary to the “sherlocking” effect, this is probably an app which gets more people into iOS musicking. The AUv3 support is likely to have an impact on the sales of other apps.
Of course, Audiobus is among the best things ever to happen to iOS. Users of iOS who know nothing about music apps would probably be surprised at the whole ecosystem surrounding AB. In other domains, Apple might have prevented the app from being released in the first place. Instead, it sounds like the company relies on it to drive sales. The very list of AB-savvy apps is quite impressive. Much can and should be said about these standards and protocols (like Inter-App Audio, AudioCopy, Ableton Link, virtual MIDI, AUv3, etc.
So, overall, the iOS device becomes a powerful music creation tool through the use of well-chosen apps, well-supported standards, and external devices. That’d be easy to “cost out”, taking sales into account. Obviously, the iOS device itself is very likely to remain the majority of the cost of the whole setup (unless it’s a used device bought on the cheap). But a minimal iOS-based setup can be quite a bit cheaper than a minimal desktop-based setup.
Although, there’s a lot to be said about the musicking affordances of the Raspberry Pi and other SBCs (Single Board Computers). Once Sonic Pi gains full support for MIDI, OSC, and/or GPIO, a Raspberry Pi could become very compelling a solution for musickers of all kinds. In the meantime, other free software like PureData, Processing, Csound, and ChucK can already make for really neat musicking tools based on any SBC and a few sensors.
Stick me in the "don't want to know, knowledge wouldn't add anything positive to my life" bracket.
It's hundreds, maybe pushing $800 spread out over at least 7 yeasts.
But worth every cent, not just app ownership and use but the chance to join good communities such as this. Pretty cheap for a hobby I'd say.
Spent more on hardware with more regrets for sure.
around $300 in the past 6 months. i just started so thats my foundational expenditures. really trying to limit it to 20 a month or less. so either a couple smaller apps or 1 big bazamba per month
Where do canucks source discount cards?
My spendage has dropped to almost nothing this year - only two music apps - I was buying more than that a week last year. They're both very goods apps though: Reslice and KRFT.
Partly because app prices have nearly doubled here since then, partly a lack of sales/offers for the one's I'm interested in, partly nervousness in the future of the platform (and my own finances), mostly because I've got nearly all of them already...
Me too, also, as well (and in addition to). Not so much the increase in app prices - they're too cheap anyway, and still are, for what they are and the work that must've gone into them. It's more that there's no money, simple as that, but if I could afford an app this year, which I can't, I'd have to turn the offer down because I literally have too many apps. Too many. I've reached a point where I basically don't make any music at all, because I can't decide which app to start with. I have too many apps. Far too many. Being not employed you'd think I've got enough time to explore them all but in reality I'm too busy to even consider it. If I only had one app (like on my Android phone - Sunvox) I might end up using it, but I've killed the possibility of ever making music again on the iPad because I have too many apps. Too many. Can't use any.
If you long press an app icon ...
I understand the no money thing, my work has dried up this year so regardless of whether they're worth it or not, no more £20/£30 new app punts unless things pick up.
I get the too many apps thing too. I think for me it doesn't hamper my music making - almost the opposite, but I tend to focus on newer purchases, so really important stuff like Gadget and Auria are sidelined in favour of the latest AUM compatible sample slicer or beat maker. I'm definitely guilty of not giving apps the time they deserve and learning them properly (iSpark, etc.), so maybe this will be a 'dry' year for new purchases, but a re-connection with the old guys (unless they're abandoned/deleted of course).
I spend $15-$30 per week.
I use iTunes gift cards bought with cash to avoid over spending.
May I also add there are many other worse things to spend money on.
I don't drink, smoke, or do any drugs.
I consider it a capital expenditure or investment anyway.
I've bought only two apps in the past six months. And it will be very difficult to get me to buy any more. I don't need anything; I have synths galore, rompler instruments o'plenty, multiple amp sims, effects by the dozens and a handful of DAWs. I won't say I will never buy another app, but it will need to be something very special to get my money. I won't mind paying a decent/high price for a truly great and necessary app, but I'm done with the only-the-price-of-a-cup-of-coffee apps just because they are only the price of a cup of coffee.
Buying less and less these days, I've got loads of stuff I'II never use as it is and Apple jacking up the UK prices (and blaming everyone other than themselves) rather adds to this.