The forward momentum of AU

[Deleted User]

This is my opinion:

Look at the momentum AU now has. It has really come on leaps and bounds of late. From humble beginnings, now we have:

1. Full screen AU
2. AU Midi
3. A range of AU hosts

We are really heading away from stand alone and IAA apps. Now that is not to say, they don’t have their place, but there is becoming less and less arguments for making them now.

There are great advantages to having AU sound engines run separate in hosts with a range of AU Midi controllers. Imagine:

1. Running an AU midi controller like Patterning for any sound source you want to connect it to!
2. Choosing any onscreen keyboard with controls for any synth you desire!
3. You want more LFOs - no problem!

Plenty more AU to come I’m sure

IMO not making something AU now is swimming against the tide

Hansson

agree, not bying Non AU apps anymore.

yonhorizon

+1 au versions on mac with preset exchange

Sebastian

What's really needed is for Apple to properly promote AUs (Auduio, Effects AND Midi) in Garageband so that cool shit like Rozeta or other AUs don't drop out of the top music charts less than a month after they've been launched.

AndyPlankton

I think that @brambos has the right idea from a synth point of view with this.....his synths are AU but come with a IAA compatible HOST so you can run the synth in stand alone mode....or use it inside IAA host that does not support AU
Stand alone mode works better for those who just want to connect some keys and play....AU is for those who want to sequence or record.

There is a place for both AU and IAA

[Deleted User]

@Sebastian said:
What's really needed is for Apple to properly promote AUs (Auduio, Effects AND Midi) in Garageband so that cool shit like Rozeta or other AUs don't drop out of the top music charts less than a month after they've been launched.

Agree, but the app charts and shop front are a farse for anything but fly by night games. Apple have fallen into the quick cash grab trap.

[Deleted User]

@AndyPlankton said:
I think that @brambos has the right idea from a synth point of view with this.....his synths are AU but come with a IAA compatible HOST so you can run the synth in stand alone mode....or use it inside IAA host that does not support AU
Stand alone mode works better for those who just want to connect some keys and play....AU is for those who want to sequence or record.

There is a place for both AU and IAA

I’d agree there is a place to have stand alone along side AU, but IAA alone not so much. For communication with host apps, IAA is deeply flawed.

[Deleted User]

@AndyPlankton said:
I think that @brambos has the right idea from a synth point of view with this.....his synths are AU but come with a IAA compatible HOST so you can run the synth in stand alone mode....or use it inside IAA host that does not support AU
Stand alone mode works better for those who just want to connect some keys and play....AU is for those who want to sequence or record.

There is a place for both AU and IAA

+1

Sebastian

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Sebastian said:
What's really needed is for Apple to properly promote AUs (Auduio, Effects AND Midi) in Garageband so that cool shit like Rozeta or other AUs don't drop out of the top music charts less than a month after they've been launched.

Agree, but the app charts and shop front are a farse for anything but fly by night games. Apple have fallen into the quick cash grab trap.

Agreed.

[Deleted User]

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:
I think that @brambos has the right idea from a synth point of view with this.....his synths are AU but come with a IAA compatible HOST so you can run the synth in stand alone mode....or use it inside IAA host that does not support AU
Stand alone mode works better for those who just want to connect some keys and play....AU is for those who want to sequence or record.

There is a place for both AU and IAA

I’d agree there is a place to have stand alone along side AU, but IAA alone not so much. For communication with host apps, IAA is deeply flawed.

Just to add, does stand alone actually have to be IAA compatible? IAA has become stand alone, but does it then have to be anything to do with hosting.

I’m no tech wizard, but we can see why Apple created IAA, it just does not work as well as AU within a host. What if AUs, now they have gone full screen, eventually get stand alone app use too? Or iOS itself becomes the host?

IMO IAA is not up to the job. If we want stand alone also, An alternative that does not also pretend to be a standard for being hosted (IAA) is quite viable. IAA is just deeply flawed in use and is just not stable enough within a music making or live context.

Sebastian

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:
I think that @brambos has the right idea from a synth point of view with this.....his synths are AU but come with a IAA compatible HOST so you can run the synth in stand alone mode....or use it inside IAA host that does not support AU
Stand alone mode works better for those who just want to connect some keys and play....AU is for those who want to sequence or record.

There is a place for both AU and IAA

I’d agree there is a place to have stand alone along side AU, but IAA alone not so much. For communication with host apps, IAA is deeply flawed.

Just to add, does stand alone actually have to be IAA compatible? IAA has become stand alone, but does it then have to be anything to do with hosting.

No. Being an AU host doesn't automatically make an app an IAA node. They're two completely different things.

[Deleted User]

@Sebastian said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:
I think that @brambos has the right idea from a synth point of view with this.....his synths are AU but come with a IAA compatible HOST so you can run the synth in stand alone mode....or use it inside IAA host that does not support AU
Stand alone mode works better for those who just want to connect some keys and play....AU is for those who want to sequence or record.

There is a place for both AU and IAA

I’d agree there is a place to have stand alone along side AU, but IAA alone not so much. For communication with host apps, IAA is deeply flawed.

Just to add, does stand alone actually have to be IAA compatible? IAA has become stand alone, but does it then have to be anything to do with hosting.

No. Being an AU host doesn't automatically make an app an IAA node. They're two completely different things.

So in essence, could AU eventually become stand alone apps without any IAA involved?

Samu

I do feel that Apple will 'promote' AUv3's more once they get their act together and turn GarageBand into a fully featured AUv3 host with both recording & editing support and 'fix' some of the memory management issues iOS is having when loading/unloading plug-ins. It's not 'stable enough' yet...

[Deleted User]

@Samu said:
I do feel that Apple will 'promote' AUv3's more once they get their act together and turn GarageBand into a fully featured AUv3 host with both recording & editing support and 'fix' some of the memory management issues iOS is having when loading/unloading plug-ins. It's not 'stable enough' yet...

Yes, I think you, @Sebastian and myself would probably all agree Apple themselves need to take the lead and showboat AU within GarageBand.

[Deleted User]

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Samu said:
I do feel that Apple will 'promote' AUv3's more once they get their act together and turn GarageBand into a fully featured AUv3 host with both recording & editing support and 'fix' some of the memory management issues iOS is having when loading/unloading plug-ins. It's not 'stable enough' yet...

Yes, I think you, @Sebastian and myself would probably all agree Apple themselves need to take the lead and showboat AU within GarageBand.

Maybe that should have been ‘showcase’ lol

StormJH1

Yeah agree with the thread 100%. AudioBus was my first introduction to routing and capturing music, and arguably pushed Apple to develop what later became IAA and AU on mobile. But the AU ecosystem has encouraged me to start using my apps again after my interest level had gone down a little. We just need wider implementation for all of these great apps we already own.

[Deleted User]

@StormJH1 said:
Yeah agree with the thread 100%. AudioBus was my first introduction to routing and capturing music, and arguably pushed Apple to develop what later became IAA and AU on mobile. But the AU ecosystem has encouraged me to start using my apps again after my interest level had gone down a little. We just need wider implementation for all of these great apps we already own.

Yes, I know some devs have an issue because basically time equals money - is the time invested worth the extra income one may or may not make from adding an AU extension. I get that! But new IAA apps are coming all the time and to be honest I think that is wasted time too

realdavidai

Something like main stage could be a good standalone “host” for AU

Samu

@Fruitbat1919 said:

Yes, I think you, @Sebastian and myself would probably all agree Apple themselves need to take the lead and showboat AU within GarageBand.

Maybe that should have been ‘showcase’ lol

Yeah, I mean I do feel that most developers would love to have a 'test bench host' that supports all the specified features for AUv3's so they could fully test their apps.

Garagaband would be perfect for this as it already supports 'touch instrument automation' but severely lacks in the editing department. Apple uses their own 'AUv3' as effects for the GarageBand instruments but only 'Volume' can be automated. Many of the touch-istruments are standard ESX files and GarageBand most likely uses the AUSampler to play them...

I'm at that point in time where I would actually pay IAP to 'enable' advanced features in iOS Garageband

[Deleted User]

And:

What beyond cost, is the reason for Korg not adding AU extensions to their stand alone apps? I can see why they don’t add AU to Gadget, but their stand alone apps already have IAA - why not AU?

I love their apps, but to be honest their days are numbered. I have constant problems with using their apps as IAA in hosts. They are just not stable. Eventually when I find a synth I like as much for screaming lead lines as ODYSSEi and anything that could replace the lovely one finger evolving sounds of iWAVESTATION, even Korg will be off my iPad lol

AndyPlankton

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Sebastian said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:
I think that @brambos has the right idea from a synth point of view with this.....his synths are AU but come with a IAA compatible HOST so you can run the synth in stand alone mode....or use it inside IAA host that does not support AU
Stand alone mode works better for those who just want to connect some keys and play....AU is for those who want to sequence or record.

There is a place for both AU and IAA

I’d agree there is a place to have stand alone along side AU, but IAA alone not so much. For communication with host apps, IAA is deeply flawed.

Just to add, does stand alone actually have to be IAA compatible? IAA has become stand alone, but does it then have to be anything to do with hosting.

No. Being an AU host doesn't automatically make an app an IAA node. They're two completely different things.

So in essence, could AU eventually become stand alone apps without any IAA involved?

An AU has to be hosted and cannot run on its own....so stand alone cannot be an AU....which leaves IAA and/or AB as the viable options if you want the stand alone app to be able to have its audio routed anywhere.

IF at some time in the future iOS itself was an AU Host, and RAM Limits on AU's were raised or removed then perhaps IAA would not be needed, but for now it is a necessity for a lot of apps.

[Deleted User]

@Samu said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

Yes, I think you, @Sebastian and myself would probably all agree Apple themselves need to take the lead and showboat AU within GarageBand.

Maybe that should have been ‘showcase’ lol

Yeah, I mean I do feel that most developers would love to have a 'test bench host' that supports all the specified features for AUv3's so they could fully test their apps.

Garagaband would be perfect for this as it already supports 'touch instrument automation' but severely lacks in the editing department. Apple uses their own 'AUv3' as effects for the GarageBand instruments but only 'Volume' can be automated. Many of the touch-istruments are standard ESX files and GarageBand most likely uses the AUSampler to play them...

I'm at that point in time where I would actually pay IAP to 'enable' advanced features in iOS Garageband

Yes agree. I love the idea of the big name DAWs coming to iOS, then I think, GarageBand Plus would be better designed from the off for a truly top end touch screen DAW

Samu

@Fruitbat1919 said:
And:

What beyond cost, is the reason for Korg not adding AU extensions to their stand alone apps? I can see why they don’t add AU to Gadget, but their stand alone apps already have IAA - why not AU?

I love their apps, but to be honest their days are numbered. I have constant problems with using their apps as IAA in hosts. They are just not stable. Eventually when I find a synth I like as much for screaming lead lines as ODYSSEi and anything that could replace the lovely one finger evolving sounds of iWAVESTATION, even Korg will be off my iPad lol

I think AUv3 support will come at some point. Korg is listening, just look at the iWavestation update that got the 'lag fix'. I do feel we'll see quite a few Korg updates in the near future as many of them also suffer of the 'iOS11 lag'

[Deleted User]

@AndyPlankton said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Sebastian said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@AndyPlankton said:
I think that @brambos has the right idea from a synth point of view with this.....his synths are AU but come with a IAA compatible HOST so you can run the synth in stand alone mode....or use it inside IAA host that does not support AU
Stand alone mode works better for those who just want to connect some keys and play....AU is for those who want to sequence or record.

There is a place for both AU and IAA

I’d agree there is a place to have stand alone along side AU, but IAA alone not so much. For communication with host apps, IAA is deeply flawed.

Just to add, does stand alone actually have to be IAA compatible? IAA has become stand alone, but does it then have to be anything to do with hosting.

No. Being an AU host doesn't automatically make an app an IAA node. They're two completely different things.

So in essence, could AU eventually become stand alone apps without any IAA involved?

An AU has to be hosted and cannot run on its own....so stand alone cannot be an AU....which leaves IAA and/or AB as the viable options if you want the stand alone app to be able to have its audio routed anywhere.

IF at some time in the future iOS itself was an AU Host, and RAM Limits on AU's were raised or removed then perhaps IAA would not be needed, but for now it is a necessity for a lot of apps.

Yes as stand alone, but IAA is used as Inter App Audio use being hosted. It does not work well, so why do devs use it? Does a stand alone app have to be compatible and hence able to be hosted? Why are we still using something that really does not work properly? Why are people still making apps without AU extensions?

Yes, I understand the limits, but it really is changing quickly and the future (IMO) will leave many IAA only apps as sad and lonely snippets of a bygone age

[Deleted User]

@Samu said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
And:

What beyond cost, is the reason for Korg not adding AU extensions to their stand alone apps? I can see why they don’t add AU to Gadget, but their stand alone apps already have IAA - why not AU?

I love their apps, but to be honest their days are numbered. I have constant problems with using their apps as IAA in hosts. They are just not stable. Eventually when I find a synth I like as much for screaming lead lines as ODYSSEi and anything that could replace the lovely one finger evolving sounds of iWAVESTATION, even Korg will be off my iPad lol

I think AUv3 support will come at some point. Korg is listening, just look at the iWavestation update that got the 'lag fix'. I do feel we'll see quite a few Korg updates in the near future as many of them also suffer of the 'iOS11 lag'

I do hope so. I would miss the Korg apps

Samu

I treat most IAA apps as 'Sampler Fodder' meaning attach them to a host, sample them and then disconnect...
For that purpose it works satisfactory at beast if I launch the IAA app first prior to connecting it to another app.

[Deleted User]

Apple should also promote AU, as there is nothing that will push us to buy a new iPad as the promise of it running more AU instances lol

[Deleted User]

@Samu said:
I treat most IAA apps as 'Sampler Fodder' meaning attach them to a host, sample them and then disconnect...
For that purpose it works satisfactory at beast if I launch the IAA app first prior to connecting it to another app.

Yeah, it does get grating having to switch off my iPad to do some ghost busting though

AndyPlankton

@Fruitbat1919 said:
And:

What beyond cost, is the reason for Korg not adding AU extensions to their stand alone apps? I can see why they don’t add AU to Gadget, but their stand alone apps already have IAA - why not AU?

I love their apps, but to be honest their days are numbered. I have constant problems with using their apps as IAA in hosts. They are just not stable. Eventually when I find a synth I like as much for screaming lead lines as ODYSSEi and anything that could replace the lovely one finger evolving sounds of iWAVESTATION, even Korg will be off my iPad lol

Perhaps it is because they want you to buy gadget ?
It will be a business decision and not a technical one...and the same one behind why Gadget is not an AU host.

I am not a fan of IAA either, and like you I have iPolysix/iMS-20/Odyssei/iM1/iWavestation all installed but seldom used (unless I am playing them direct from keys and recording the audio output live), which is a real shame because these synths make great noises....the only reason they are still installed is because they have relatively small footprint.

Why are we still using something that really does not work properly?

Because we are in a transition period where AU is still settling down, also dev's who already know how to implement IAA may use that in preference to learning AU, particularly with the lack of documentation or examples.

Why are people still making apps without AU extensions?

Because of the need to learn it and lack of documentation as mentioned before. As well as the RAM limit in some cases.

Samu

@Fruitbat1919 said:
Apple should also promote AU, as there is nothing that will push us to buy a new iPad as the promise of it running more AU instances lol

For me it would be my eyes that push me to get a bigger iPad since my eye-sight is rapidly degrading...
I do plan to get a new audio-interface soon and I'm oogling on the Steinberg UR242 maybe as a Christmas present to myself

AndyPlankton

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@Samu said:
I treat most IAA apps as 'Sampler Fodder' meaning attach them to a host, sample them and then disconnect...
For that purpose it works satisfactory at beast if I launch the IAA app first prior to connecting it to another app.

Yeah, it does get grating having to switch off my iPad to do some ghost busting though

I know someone who can temporarily help with that...although they may let them all escape again at some poin tin the future