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Ios synths geared toward 8 knob controllers

2

Comments

  • IostressIostress

    @Max23 said:

    @MonzoPro said:

    @Ribbon said:
    That's a really good idea and a valid point about most controllers only having 8 knobs. I often struggle to midimap mine in efficient ways because of the UI mismatch. The page-based design you're proposing would be very useful.

    Yep +1 on this.

    It’s a nightmare of stepping between pages ...
    Most sounds are about the fine adjustment of hm let’s say 4 or 5 Parameters on different pages.
    Let’s take a plastic example and pick drive, cut off, reso, envelope amount, filter decay, lfo amount ...

    Totally missing the point established various times already... That it would require some 'imagination' from the dev when designing what happened under hood for each knob... To make things interesting. The same way that op1 macros required imagination from teenage engineering. Op1 works. With only FOUR synth macros. Enough people dig it. They were recently selling for more 'used' than I paid for mine new...

    I'm not suggesting anything new here ;) Just takes a little imagination to see how it could translate to ios and 8 knob controllers... I'm not talking about cloning a traditional synth layout/single params... You've just replied over and over again without properly reading what you're replying to ;) A lot of arguing for the sake of it on this forum :(

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • supadomsupadom
    edited January 2018

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:
    Well you have to write small letters

    Forget about visual correspondence
    We are trying to use a generic controller and apply it to individual concepts ...

    All standalone hardware works the way I'm suggesting. Such a better interface/experience when everything is clear for visual correspondence and the instrument is based on the physical hardware that's used to control it..

    I’m not arguing against that, but that’s what makes it expensive.

    But you're saying you don't wish for a similarly refined software/hardware integration workflow experience from some intentionally designed iPad apps via the controllers many of us already have? You're confusing me...

    Once you’ve got it all up and running we’ll be very keen to watch a video where you walk us through the ins and outs (pun) of it. That would make for a great service to the IOS music community ;).

    Bait..

    I don’t think so! You better reset your sensor lostress. If you’re not making instructional videos, or you don’t like other people telling you what to do that’s fine by me but you cannot accuse me for baiting you. If you choose to though I’d like to hear your logic please I promise I’m not going to jump on you.

    I’ve made quite a few semi instructional in the last few iOS years and I tell you it feels good to be making them and shedding some light on ones ingenious (self compliment) ways of making it work on the platform. :)

  • IostressIostress

    @Max23 said:
    It’s limiting my freedom of expression if I have to deal with some clever predefined macros,
    I am a sound guy,
    I like synthesis monsters.;)

    'limiting my freedom of expression'...That's a self-limiting stance in itself ;) Everything is different and everything is potentially useful. It's not always 'how many knobs does this instrument/pedal have?' ;)

  • IostressIostress
    edited January 2018

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:
    Well you have to write small letters

    Forget about visual correspondence
    We are trying to use a generic controller and apply it to individual concepts ...

    All standalone hardware works the way I'm suggesting. Such a better interface/experience when everything is clear for visual correspondence and the instrument is based on the physical hardware that's used to control it..

    I’m not arguing against that, but that’s what makes it expensive.

    But you're saying you don't wish for a similarly refined software/hardware integration workflow experience from some intentionally designed iPad apps via the controllers many of us already have? You're confusing me...

    Once you’ve got it all up and running we’ll be very keen to watch a video where you walk us through the ins and outs (pun) of it. That would make for a great service to the IOS music community ;).

    Bait..

    I don’t think so! You better reset your sensor lostress. If you’re not making instructional videos, or you don’t like other people telling you what to do that’s fine by me but you cannot accuse me for baiting you. If you choose to though I’d like to hear your logic please I promise I’m not going to jump on you.

    I’ve made quite a few semi instructional in the last few iOS years and I tell you it feels good to be making them and shedding some light on ones ingenious (self compliment) ways of making it work on the platform. :)

    You were suggesting I code the app myself and do a video tutorial to show that it was worthwhile. Which added nothing constructive to the conversation and could only result in me arguing about totally off topic nonsense (like me not being a coder etc..) if I replied....seems kinda Baitish to me ;)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • supadomsupadom

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:
    Well you have to write small letters

    Forget about visual correspondence
    We are trying to use a generic controller and apply it to individual concepts ...

    All standalone hardware works the way I'm suggesting. Such a better interface/experience when everything is clear for visual correspondence and the instrument is based on the physical hardware that's used to control it..

    I’m not arguing against that, but that’s what makes it expensive.

    But you're saying you don't wish for a similarly refined software/hardware integration workflow experience from some intentionally designed iPad apps via the controllers many of us already have? You're confusing me...

    Once you’ve got it all up and running we’ll be very keen to watch a video where you walk us through the ins and outs (pun) of it. That would make for a great service to the IOS music community ;).

    Bait..

    I don’t think so! You better reset your sensor lostress. If you’re not making instructional videos, or you don’t like other people telling you what to do that’s fine by me but you cannot accuse me for baiting you. If you choose to though I’d like to hear your logic please I promise I’m not going to jump on you.

    I’ve made quite a few semi instructional in the last few iOS years and I tell you it feels good to be making them and shedding some light on ones ingenious (self compliment) ways of making it work on the platform. :)

    You were suggesting I code the app myself and do a video tutorial to show that it was worthwhile. Which added nothing constructive to the conversation and could only result in me arguing about totally off topic nonsense (like me not being a coder etc..) if I replied....seems kinda Baitish to me ;)

    You’ve collected all my posts (early and late) and constructed your own wonky version of the events. When I suggested you used mobuplat it was before I realised you were talking about macros. Whereas when I suggested you made a video of your solution for
    this community’s viewing and learning I meant exactly that.

    If you want to read between the lines and add meaning to my posts that’s ok but I’m not going to post lengthy explanations because they are quite clear once you read them properly.

  • IostressIostress

    @Max23 said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:
    It’s limiting my freedom of expression if I have to deal with some clever predefined macros,
    I am a sound guy,
    I like synthesis monsters.;)

    'limiting my freedom of expression'...That's a self-limiting stance in itself ;) Everything is different and everything is potentially useful. It's not always 'how many knobs does this instrument/pedal have?' ;)

    I don’t think you understand what I am saying,
    the op 1 has what I think of as performance interface.

    This is becoming slightly ridiculous conversation now :(

    Just because the op1 has that limited interface it doesn't mean it isn't a useful instrument. Maybe not to you, but to plenty other people. How about the Analog four? Very few knobs there too.. If this thread talks about something that doesn't interest you, but you can at least some value in and accept that other people might get some creative use and a nice workflow/integration from some apps aimed at 8 knobs, then just ignore the discussion and go read something else ;)

    And just cos the op1 does those things with its 4 knobs, nothing stopping a dev doing something entirely different with 8 knobs.... Something far more experimental. And several different synth engines in the app that you could even do stuff like modulate between types... And yeah it would have pages, but it's just as much hassle to switch a page on a screen as it is to switch a controller scene for different Cc...

    You're choosing not to see the big picture ;)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • IostressIostress

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:
    Well you have to write small letters

    Forget about visual correspondence
    We are trying to use a generic controller and apply it to individual concepts ...

    All standalone hardware works the way I'm suggesting. Such a better interface/experience when everything is clear for visual correspondence and the instrument is based on the physical hardware that's used to control it..

    I’m not arguing against that, but that’s what makes it expensive.

    But you're saying you don't wish for a similarly refined software/hardware integration workflow experience from some intentionally designed iPad apps via the controllers many of us already have? You're confusing me...

    Once you’ve got it all up and running we’ll be very keen to watch a video where you walk us through the ins and outs (pun) of it. That would make for a great service to the IOS music community ;).

    Bait..

    I don’t think so! You better reset your sensor lostress. If you’re not making instructional videos, or you don’t like other people telling you what to do that’s fine by me but you cannot accuse me for baiting you. If you choose to though I’d like to hear your logic please I promise I’m not going to jump on you.

    I’ve made quite a few semi instructional in the last few iOS years and I tell you it feels good to be making them and shedding some light on ones ingenious (self compliment) ways of making it work on the platform. :)

    You were suggesting I code the app myself and do a video tutorial to show that it was worthwhile. Which added nothing constructive to the conversation and could only result in me arguing about totally off topic nonsense (like me not being a coder etc..) if I replied....seems kinda Baitish to me ;)

    You’ve collected all my posts (early and late) and constructed your own wonky version of the events. When I suggested you used mobuplat it was before I realised you were talking about macros. Whereas when I suggested you made a video of your solution for
    this community’s viewing and learning I meant exactly that.

    If you want to read between the lines and add meaning to my posts that’s ok but I’m not going to post lengthy explanations because they are quite clear once you read them properly.

    You said 'when you've got it up and running'... I read that as 'if you want this then make it yourself'. Kind of a stock comment that people throw around sometimes, even though it rarely makes sense ;) Seemed like the obvious translation? Maybe I read it wrong though. No worries either way tho dude. Apologies if I misunderstood. Just seemed like a weird post to throw in the mix ;)

  • supadomsupadom

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:
    Well you have to write small letters

    Forget about visual correspondence
    We are trying to use a generic controller and apply it to individual concepts ...

    All standalone hardware works the way I'm suggesting. Such a better interface/experience when everything is clear for visual correspondence and the instrument is based on the physical hardware that's used to control it..

    I’m not arguing against that, but that’s what makes it expensive.

    But you're saying you don't wish for a similarly refined software/hardware integration workflow experience from some intentionally designed iPad apps via the controllers many of us already have? You're confusing me...

    Once you’ve got it all up and running we’ll be very keen to watch a video where you walk us through the ins and outs (pun) of it. That would make for a great service to the IOS music community ;).

    Bait..

    I don’t think so! You better reset your sensor lostress. If you’re not making instructional videos, or you don’t like other people telling you what to do that’s fine by me but you cannot accuse me for baiting you. If you choose to though I’d like to hear your logic please I promise I’m not going to jump on you.

    I’ve made quite a few semi instructional in the last few iOS years and I tell you it feels good to be making them and shedding some light on ones ingenious (self compliment) ways of making it work on the platform. :)

    You were suggesting I code the app myself and do a video tutorial to show that it was worthwhile. Which added nothing constructive to the conversation and could only result in me arguing about totally off topic nonsense (like me not being a coder etc..) if I replied....seems kinda Baitish to me ;)

    You’ve collected all my posts (early and late) and constructed your own wonky version of the events. When I suggested you used mobuplat it was before I realised you were talking about macros. Whereas when I suggested you made a video of your solution for
    this community’s viewing and learning I meant exactly that.

    If you want to read between the lines and add meaning to my posts that’s ok but I’m not going to post lengthy explanations because they are quite clear once you read them properly.

    You said 'when you've got it up and running'... I read that as 'if you want this then make it yourself'. Kind of a stock comment that people throw around sometimes, even though it rarely makes sense ;) Seemed like the obvious translation? Maybe I read it wrong though. No worries either way tho dude. Apologies if I misunderstood. Just seemed like a weird post to throw in the mix ;)

    What I meant was 'once you've connected all the dots'. Especially due to mudular nature of IOS. Peace

  • IostressIostress

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @supadom said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:

    @Iostress said:

    @Max23 said:
    Well you have to write small letters

    Forget about visual correspondence
    We are trying to use a generic controller and apply it to individual concepts ...

    All standalone hardware works the way I'm suggesting. Such a better interface/experience when everything is clear for visual correspondence and the instrument is based on the physical hardware that's used to control it..

    I’m not arguing against that, but that’s what makes it expensive.

    But you're saying you don't wish for a similarly refined software/hardware integration workflow experience from some intentionally designed iPad apps via the controllers many of us already have? You're confusing me...

    Once you’ve got it all up and running we’ll be very keen to watch a video where you walk us through the ins and outs (pun) of it. That would make for a great service to the IOS music community ;).

    Bait..

    I don’t think so! You better reset your sensor lostress. If you’re not making instructional videos, or you don’t like other people telling you what to do that’s fine by me but you cannot accuse me for baiting you. If you choose to though I’d like to hear your logic please I promise I’m not going to jump on you.

    I’ve made quite a few semi instructional in the last few iOS years and I tell you it feels good to be making them and shedding some light on ones ingenious (self compliment) ways of making it work on the platform. :)

    You were suggesting I code the app myself and do a video tutorial to show that it was worthwhile. Which added nothing constructive to the conversation and could only result in me arguing about totally off topic nonsense (like me not being a coder etc..) if I replied....seems kinda Baitish to me ;)

    You’ve collected all my posts (early and late) and constructed your own wonky version of the events. When I suggested you used mobuplat it was before I realised you were talking about macros. Whereas when I suggested you made a video of your solution for
    this community’s viewing and learning I meant exactly that.

    If you want to read between the lines and add meaning to my posts that’s ok but I’m not going to post lengthy explanations because they are quite clear once you read them properly.

    You said 'when you've got it up and running'... I read that as 'if you want this then make it yourself'. Kind of a stock comment that people throw around sometimes, even though it rarely makes sense ;) Seemed like the obvious translation? Maybe I read it wrong though. No worries either way tho dude. Apologies if I misunderstood. Just seemed like a weird post to throw in the mix ;)

    What I meant was 'once you've connected all the dots'. Especially due to mudular nature of IOS. Peace

    Sorry man, I didn't read it that way. Apologies!

  • BlueGreenSpiralBlueGreenSpiral

    I think this type of intelligent macro stuff is a lot easier to setup in dedicated hardware.

    There is another way of achieving this goal for not a lot of money
    Lately I picked up a first generation Korg nanokontrol used and this version has 4 scenes of 9 faders and 9 encoders. I have been setting up my synth collection to a sort of standard, for example scene A has 2 envelopes on the faders plus main volume on fader 9. I have these encoders setup for filter cutoff,resonance, then lfo rate and depth for lfo 1 and 2. Scene B is oscillatior stuff, pitch, fine-tune etc etc.

    So far Zeeon and Nave are the only ones that I have needed to map everything across the 4 scenes. This approach takes a bit of time and not all synths have the same parameters. I use scene C for effects and scene D for the mod matrix wherever possible. It's not perfect but I generally know what a fader or encoder will do before I touch it. A bonus is that I don't have to touch the iPad.

    As a side note Korgs Electribe can be taken over with a nanokontrol 2, once it's connected almost everything is mapped and the lights give feedback so you don't get lost despite not having labels on the nanokontrol 2. I would love to see more of the Korg apps gaining this ability.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    A macro page would work for me. 8 assignable knobs, that would then map to a controller. Does the job in Maschine.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2018

    @lostress perhaps you could move your agenda forward if you were able to identify some resources that identify the relationships betweeen synth parameters that work well with 8 knob controllers so that developers would have a clearer starting point with respect to what you’d like to see.

    I think @supadom suggestion might be worthwhile even if it meant you collected some instructional videos that showed the value of 8 knob controller synths even if they weren’t iOS synths.

    In this way you might be able to make more people aware of the 8 knob approach so that it’d reach the critical mass necessary for a developer to invest the effort into developing such a synth or perhaps a controller interface for synths they’ve already developed.

    I recall it being mentioned many times over the years that GUI development is a significant cost developers deal with when they develop their apps.

    As to why this hasn’t been done already on iOS?

    1. Low price high volume economy
    2. Significant proportion of iOS users may not have 8 knob controllers
    3. Developers have a day job so limited time to develop music apps
    4. Developers minimize GUI development time to increase efficiency
    5. Lowest common denominator to minimize update costs
    6. There are MIDI controller apps where people can build their own interface
    7. Deciding which 8 knobs control parameters and how those parameters are arranged in pages may be challenging to create
    8. 8 knob control GUI may alienate some of their users who prefer a setup based upon a GUI where more parameters are grouped together reflecting the design of the synth so they can more easily develop their own sounds (e.g. @Max23 )
    9. Many users may be perfectly happy with factory presets or the presets that other users create and are focused on searching for patches and tweaking a few knobs rather than trying to control all the synth parameters with an 8 knob controller.
    10. Some hardware manufacturers such as Novation and Korg have created apps which can be controlled via their hardware. If 8 knob controllers are as common as you suggest then there wouldn’t be a competitive advantage to creating an 8 knob controller to the company as users could choose to buy one of any number of controllers as opposed to the hardware manufacturer’s product.
    11. The technical issues raised by @rs2000 to accommodate relative MIDI encoder controls would also increase the development time and testing process.

    Your suggestion may seem too niche to developers for any of them to have adopted it. I’m sure many of them are aware of an 8 knob approach and after evaluating the potential iOS 8 knob synth controller market, decided it wasn’t worth their while.

    If you were able to generate sufficient interest, perhaps a developer would become interested in an 8 knob control approach and be willing to develop a synth app based upon it. If this app sold well enough, they be encouraged to develop a suite of 8 knob synth apps based upon different synthesis designs. Their competitive advantage in the marketplace would be the loyalty of 8 knob controller users. They may choose to broaden the appeal of their app by adding a non-8 knob controller GUI to facilitate users who want to create their own presets and 8 knob controller presets. This would mean a higher than normal commitment to developing multiple GUI interfaces for a synth app.

  • IostressIostress

    @InfoCheck said:
    @lostress perhaps you could move your agenda forward if you were able to identify some resources that identify the relationships betweeen synth parameters that work well with 8 knob controllers so that developers would have a clearer starting point with respect to what you’d like to see.

    I think @supadom suggestion might be worthwhile even if it meant you collected some instructional videos that showed the value of 8 knob controller synths even if they weren’t iOS synths.

    In this way you might be able to make more people aware of the 8 knob approach so that it’d reach the critical mass necessary for a developer to invest the effort into developing such a synth or perhaps a controller interface for synths they’ve already developed.

    I recall it being mentioned many times over the years that GUI development is a significant cost developers deal with when they develop their apps.

    As to why this hasn’t been done already on iOS?

    1. Low price high volume economy
    2. Significant proportion of iOS users may not have 8 knob controllers
    3. Developers have a day job so limited time to develop music apps
    4. Developers minimize GUI development time to increase efficiency
    5. Lowest common denominator to minimize update costs
    6. There are MIDI controller apps where people can build their own interface
    7. Deciding which 8 knobs control parameters and how those parameters are arranged in pages may be challenging to create
    8. 8 knob control GUI may alienate some of their users who prefer a setup based upon a GUI where more parameters are grouped together reflecting the design of the synth so they can more easily develop their own sounds (e.g. @Max23 )
    9. Many users may be perfectly happy with factory presets or the presets that other users create and are focused on searching for patches and tweaking a few knobs rather than trying to control all the synth parameters with an 8 knob controller.
    10. Some hardware manufacturers such as Novation and Korg have created apps which can be controlled via their hardware. If 8 knob controllers are as common as you suggest then there wouldn’t be a competitive advantage to creating an 8 knob controller to the company as users could choose to buy one of any number of controllers as opposed to the hardware manufacturer’s product.
    11. The technical issues raised by @rs2000 to accommodate relative MIDI encoder controls would also increase the development time and testing process.

    Your suggestion may seem too niche to developers for any of them to have adopted it. I’m sure many of them are aware of an 8 knob approach and after evaluating the potential iOS 8 knob synth controller market, decided it wasn’t worth their while.

    If you were able to generate sufficient interest, perhaps a developer would become interested in an 8 knob control approach and be willing to develop a synth app based upon it. If this app sold well enough, they be encouraged to develop a suite of 8 knob synth apps based upon different synthesis designs. Their competitive advantage in the marketplace would be the loyalty of 8 knob controller users. They may choose to broaden the appeal of their app by adding a non-8 knob controller GUI to facilitate users who want to create their own presets and 8 knob controller presets. This would mean a higher than normal commitment to developing multiple GUI interfaces for a synth app.

    It was just a casual idea/observation ;) Could be as interesting sonically as the dev’s imagination allowed it to be.. I don’t really understand @max32 dismissing the potential for sound design as ‘limited’ purely based on the amount of knobs.... Combinations of values for granular/fx/wavetable/fm/subtractive/spectral/additive/apps/lfo sequences/sample selection etc etc....no limits to what they could code in to the 8 macros per sound engine and the way those 8 knobs interacted together..

    I’m not really qualified or inclined to go on a one man crusade to persuade someone make something like this tho ;) I’m sure something like it will probably pop up sooner or later :)

  • supadomsupadom

    ... and what about this bad boy?

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • IostressIostress

    @Max23 said:
    There is no simple solution to this,
    thats why NI and Abelton are earning a lot of money with their hardware. ;)

    Partly agree... Designing a purpose built hardware instrument that's designed to enable use of daw software as complex as ableton or maschine without looking at a computer, is a huge undertaking!

    Not really comparable to designing some 8 knob ios instruments though ;) As an example hundreds of open source instruments/fx/sequencers have been coded by users specifically for the Organelle 4 knobs hardware unit. And that unit has some major handicaps that ipad doesn't have (only one 'aux' button. Limited lines of text/graphics space per page. Etc..)...

  • rs2000rs2000
    edited January 2018

    I think there is already a perfect and real example of what lostress originally suggested:
    The elektron Digitakt.
    8 knobs, multiple pages with many parameters, and every page has 8 parameters each mapped to the knob at the respective location.
    Now imagine you have a hardware MIDI controller capable of sending relative (incremental) MIDI CC messages and an iOS app capable of mapping the 8 parameters per page to the same 8 hardware knobs for each page. It's not difficult, only something most developers haven't done yet.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • WillWill

    Any synth app could offer an alternative "8 knob mode" where a developer would preselect the groupings of existing controls. I mean to say it needn't be a new synth app designed explicitly for this.

    Not to suggest this would be a trivial undertaking. Would require additional code, UI views, etc. Just suggesting that it's possible.

    Probably worth noting that the Elektron examples are all encoders (so they increment by default) and double as push buttons. I don't think an "8 knob mode" would be nearly as fluid with a knobs and no corresponding push buttons.

    So.... X-Station FTW. ;)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • rs2000rs2000

    You can put a knob on an encoder just like on a potentiometer and the knob won't care I suppose.
    That's why I wrote "relative/incremental CC" to make sure we talk about the same thing, and we do, so it seems.
    The Digitakt uses a special type of pots instead of encoders in order to achieve such high resolution, but who cares, incremental is incremental, and the 8-knob multi-page setup IMHO only makes sense with this type of controllers because with classic potentiometers you'd always have parameter jumps after page switches followed by knob tweaks.

  • IostressIostress

    @Max23 said:
    Good point, makes much more sense with encoders than knobs,
    but I guess that also means it’s an even smaller group that this is useful to = forget it.
    Let’s have mpe instead and push things forward instead of wasting time with this.
    As soon as giku whispers go in my ear I’m getting one of these.

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/19261/roli-seaboard-block/p1

    Mpe is even more niche and doesn't address ANY of the ui/interface problems this thread is discussing to try and suggest solutions for!? And zero visual correspondence. I get that the things suggested in this thread don't interest you personally. That's fine. But to call it 'wasting time' is just kind of arrogant and narrow sighted. It's not for you, you made your point.

    What I was suggesting would be no different to organelle. Which works fine. Yeah for sure it would be smoother with endless encoders, something mentioned way early in the thread that you somehow totally missed til now, but even without it could be made to work 'enough' as to be a UI/workflow alternative over the standard '60 scattered knobs and sliders' ios synth and ton of multiple scenes on an 8 knob controller, hardware that MANY PEOPLE ALREADY OWN.. Mpe is totally irrelevant to the discussion as its not very commonly owned at all in comparison. Totally different thread...

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited January 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • IostressIostress

    @Max23 said:
    I can’t see developers adopting the 8 knobs per page thing because it’s not very effective.

    Thats fine. But I can personally imagine an app (almost in its entirety....i just can't code it!) where it would be very effective, very interesting, very refreshing. I'm sure some devs would be able to envision something similar also. Just takes an open mind and willingness to experiment ;)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • IostressIostress

    @Max23 said:
    The tec for this already exist,
    automap sounds kind of like what you want.
    Nobody adopted it because it’s shit.

    Sorry, but you're still totally missing the point And us going in circles while I repeatedly try to convey the point is just muddying the thread. It's not for you, clearly ;) Have a good day :)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
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