Just picked up a Keith McMillen BopPad - suggestions on configuring it for iPad

wexy

Thanks for all the good info, it's needed!!
I've had the most success with Drums XD it allows midi connections to numerous drum and percussive instruments some of which have more than 1 connection. It also allows different stage setups so I have been setting up the instruments to match the quadrants. It's not perfect either, the hangdrum doesn't work which I really wanted and it takes a few clicks to change the layouts.

wexy

I'm getting closer and have had a bit of luck with Beatmaker 3 app however I'm now having trouble preventing the automatic triggering as shown in the video below.
I've tried various things in the BopPad web editor without any luck.
I just want it to hit once per quarter without this rapid triggering.
Any suggestions?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nu53lxnuc1rb9gi/IMG_0593.MOV?dl=0

lukesleepwalker

@wexy nice tip on Drums XD; hadn't tried that one. As for BM3, did you set up the MIDI In using focus actions or is it just piping in all the MIDI from BP? Also, have you changed the settings in the BP editor at all?

wexy

@lukesleepwalker said:
@wexy nice tip on Drums XD; hadn't tried that one. As for BM3, did you set up the MIDI In using focus actions or is it just piping in all the MIDI from BP? Also, have you changed the settings in the BP editor at all?

Yeah I set up MIDI In using focus actions
Not sure how to pipe in all the MIDI from BP?
Yeah I've tried playing around with and tweaking different settings in the webeditor icl GLOBAL SENSITIVITY without any luck.
The only way I have got around this is by setting the pad ATTACK & PASS via macros as a workaround but this takes away from the original sound of the sample and it doesn't work for all sounds.

It's not doing this in any other apps just BM3
Problem is the other apps don't allow user samples
BM3 works perfect apart from the triggering effect when I tap a pad which makes the sound horrible

lukesleepwalker

@wexy said:

@lukesleepwalker said:
@wexy nice tip on Drums XD; hadn't tried that one. As for BM3, did you set up the MIDI In using focus actions or is it just piping in all the MIDI from BP? Also, have you changed the settings in the BP editor at all?

Yeah I set up MIDI In using focus actions
Not sure how to pipe in all the MIDI from BP?
Yeah I've tried playing around with and tweaking different settings in the webeditor icl GLOBAL SENSITIVITY without any luck.
The only way I have got around this is by setting the pad ATTACK & PASS via macros as a workaround but this takes away from the original sound of the sample and it doesn't work for all sounds.

It's not doing this in any other apps just BM3
Problem is the other apps don't allow user samples
BM3 works perfect apart from the triggering effect when I tap a pad which makes the sound horrible

I'll plug in my BP later and take a look. I generally use my BP with samples loaded into AudioLayer, which works flawlessly.

wexy

It's definitely a setting in the BP editor.
Is AudioLayer MIDI compatible with BP?

lukesleepwalker

@wexy said:
It's definitely a setting in the BP editor.
Is AudioLayer MIDI compatible with BP?

Yes, works without issues for me. I just tried the BP with BM3 and didn't see/hear any of the issues that you showed in the video. Sending notes from BP to focus actions in BM3.

willhindson

Side note not to disrupt the topic, but I left another reminder on the keith mcmillen forums that we are still waiting for an iOS editor - would help so much. Great if anyone else wants to add to the requests

https://forum.keithmcmillen.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=7540&start=10 (My latest comment hasn’t been added yet)

As you were...

lukesleepwalker

The fact that we've now filled five pages here (and more on the audeonic site) on how to workaround using BP with iOS would suggest you are correct, @willhindson.

jollyDodger

arrived from ebay this week... had a play last night... yes... no ios app editor suks but.... using midiflow inbetween the boppad & the app makes getting the settings sorted easy and quick as every app appears to need it's own tweaking with velocity curves and what mapping work with the various different cc outs of the controller.

made a cool drumJam config last night, very dubby.. love the way that the bop-pad has three types of axis CC's..
i.e. i configured aftertouch pressure to reverb, initial center/outside position to a combination of pitchbend/filter, and the distance between position held and tap to the delay or bedlam wet.. SOOOO MUCH FUN..

The only bit I have still to work out with drumJam is how to control the repeat notes with the bopPad... waiting for the dev to reply on that one..

happy tiptop tapping peeps this one is a keeper!

supadom

Bop Pad has a couple of annoying bugs.

Firstly it is not truly polyphonic, as in it isn't able to fire two note messages at once. if you play two sounds at precisely the same time, one of them will not sound.

Also at some point I held one sustained sound while working the pressure and I wasn't able to play other sounds. Something dodgy is going on. By no means it isn't useless but it ain't perfect either. Like all McMillen's products I guess.

Dr_M

Oh, heavy if true, @supadom
Could it possibly be an app limitation? From reading your posts here I know you are thoughtful and thorough...

auxmux

Wow, not polyphonic, that's bizarre! You can't a hit a snare and hihat at same time? Disappointing.

Was thinking of getting this, but maybe I should wait and get an Alesis StrikePad instead.

Daveypoo

@nondes said:
Wow, not polyphonic, that's bizarre! You can't a hit a snare and hihat at same time? Disappointing.

Was thinking of getting this, but maybe I should wait and get an Alesis StrikePad instead.

I don't find this to be true. Polyphony between quadrants works as advertised on my end.

supadom

@Dr_M said:
Oh, heavy if true, @supadom
Could it possibly be an app limitation? From reading your posts here I know you are thoughtful and thorough...

Tried it with many: elastic drums, stroke machine, logic. I guess how annoying it is will depend on how precise is your drumming. I’m not an amazing drummer but I have a decent timing and managed it to miss notes in one in 10 hits. I even had a timeline of midi messages recorded that I’ve sent to Drambo developer BeepStreet.

I originally thought software got confused by too many other midi impulses coming at it like pressure and radius but it still does it with other stuff disabled. Can’t be 100% on what’s the cause and whether it affects all of the units but mine does it.

Still, I have kept it as there’s no other drum controller that does so much. I definitely want to try it with Drambo as the developer has bop pad and there might be some bespoke patches for it. Will see.

supadom

@nondes said:
Wow, not polyphonic, that's bizarre! You can't a hit a snare and hihat at same time? Disappointing.

Was thinking of getting this, but maybe I should wait and get an Alesis StrikePad instead.

Get it, try it, if doesn’t work as advertised, return it. Try no to get it from eBay as some might be early development units. Just a speculation on my part of course.

supadom

@Dr_M said:
Oh, heavy if true, @supadom
Could it possibly be an app limitation? From reading your posts here I know you are thoughtful and thorough...

The second issue I’ve described I haven’t researched fully but it wasn’t with software but Novation Circuit. Mind you, that’s software in hardware clothing

Dr_M

@supadom thanks for more info!

supadom

@Dr_M said:
@supadom thanks for more info!

No worries man. It might not be perfect, still it is pretty awesome for the price.

Dr_M

In light of this info, Does anyone think this is a limitation that would lead you to purchasing more than one? Or being disappointed ?

A Quadranted monophonic midi pad seems like a band-aid or a mask on a much simpler device.

Off to go check their documentation...

Daveypoo

If I truly had spare cash I'd grab a second one in a second. Quadrated monophonic midi pad is REALLY underselling the potential of this device. I'm an idiot and can see that. I may be more enthusiastic then @supadom but honestly, split the difference in our opinions and you'll hit the mark.

Nothing but respect for your opinion, sir @supadom - I always appreciate your honest and thoughtful feedback!

lukesleepwalker

Second positive vote here. It's not perfect but it has a ton of utility and fun factor for the $$$.

supadom

No worries @Daveypoo. I still have it and intend to use with drambo so can't be that bad. I generally sell stuff right away to fund other explorations.

I'd say I would still put those in 'quirks' category rather than outright bugs even if ultimately that's what they are.

I'd say the biggest selling point for me is the ability to send pressure, radius and velocity CCs from one unit. The silicone surface has a nice bounce and does a great job at emulating a real drum skin. It's light, ultra portable and pretty rugged.

@Dr_M you really need to try one for yourself and see if you can make it work for you.

Dr_M

Wow thanks for the input! I’m a KMI Fan and I am genuinely appreciative of their products and am interested in the BP, I use a Quneo & Qunexus.

The bar only usb guard has me a bit apprehensive and now the polyphony quirk, has me thinking further about it’s true uses. I recently bought a wavedrum mini, but not really for the same purpose, but close.

I hope my previous post didn’t come across as negative. I wanted to bump the topic bc of my interest.

Edit: I couldn’t find any documentation on the KMI site specific to the polyphony.

jollyDodger

ok _ feel a bit responsible for recommending this PRODUCT so I've put in an extra half day of testing:

On the software side i used drumJam ~ song beats ~ KQ Dixie ~ gadget 2 tokyo ~ loopy ~ audiobus ~ garageband

-- the big caveat to my testing was that i used midiflow with it's condition & remapping in-app purchases. Midiflow was great, I haven't tried anything else to compare it to: ((I think a flow / visual midi programming interface would of been quicker with less duplicated multipage diving - but hey it worked.. simples so awesome).

Midiflow allowed me to test quickly and reconfig the midi setup without having to jump off the ios platform to the PC/osx boppad editor too much. I set up the boppad to GM mappings. using cc mapped to all it's different outputs - no other messages used.

Issue 1* workaround

• some software struggles with the data stream from the boppad.. It's huge & fast. Anything with midiLearn is a pain to set up. I gave up with garageBand. DrumJam seemed to give me occasional ghost hihats when only a kick was sent. I think the thing do to is cull/filter out the midi to only what you need to keep software more stable.

Issue 2* workaround

• velocity sensitivity, either ghost notes being sent or difficulty to get more than 2 levels of response. : I found that I really had to tweak the global sensitivity slider &. impact dropdown (this has to be done on the boppad editor software) and curves in midiflow to get an ok working feel - having a product that is designed both for fingers and sticks is a bit ambitious - and i suspect that these settings will be unique to each manufactured boppad, like the Qunexus is.

Issue 3* workaround

• I reproduced the issue above by @supadom of simultaneous hits in different quadrants occasionally missing. The problem went away when i set up the boppad editor to single channel for all and single note per quadrent. ( this was then reconfigured in midiflow to multichannel / multinote if necessary)

Issue 4* under-investigation

• weird behaviour i still have is that... when clicking between two strikes in time, in two exactly the same places, in a constant rhythm. I can silence the pad so that even though i am hitting it, no notes are being sent.. I think this is a real 'feature', that can be configured in the global boppad settings.. i.e. if you don't lift your finger before the next strike setting.

Issue 5* under-investigation

• delayed message ghost. So sometimes when i change position within a quadrant I get the previous strike position sent being on the initial next strike. (i.e. I set up the boppad (in midiflow )so each quadrent has three multi-sampled notes, so i can get most of a standard drumset onto the one pad. Three Toms, Three Hihats, two snares & a rim, two kicks & a cymbal. - yes awesome if i can get it to work ). I need to experiment more as there are three different ways of sending position and two different ways of sending note/velocity from the bopPad.

even with these current caveats it's a keeper - love it at the moment... i practice my drum-chops on the commute with SongBeats to specific songs I'm learning. The biggest problem with the boppad is that it opens up so many options, and can therfore distract you with techy procrastination, rather than sonic musement.

will update my investigations when I have time.

Daveypoo

@jollyDodger said:

The biggest problem with the boppad is that it opens up so many options, and can therfore distract you with techy procrastination, rather than sonic musement.

will update my investigations when I have time.

Firstly this "review" is SUPER thorough, and I really appreciate it. I'd love for you to share your BopPad editor and MIDIFlow settings so I don't have to do all the work you just did

But your quote above is what really struck me - this is absolutely the case. The BopPad is capable of SO MUCH that configuring it is a rabbit hole of techy-nerdness. It's hard to get back to just playing drums with it....

jollyDodger

update: fixed both *4 *5 issues:

issue 4 just went away i don't know why?
issue 5 was a limitation of midiflow: hopefully the dev will update: support the request here https://support.midiflow.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14 midiflow is such an easy to use app, I hope this feature gets added.

I got round issue 5 by using streambyter: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/32345/boppad-midi-mash-makes-streambyter-12-strike-smash

supadom

@jollyDodger said:
update: fixed both *4 *5 issues:

issue 4 just went away i don't know why?
issue 5 was a limitation of midiflow: hopefully the dev will update: support the request here https://support.midiflow.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14 midiflow is such an easy to use app, I hope this feature gets added.

I got round issue 5 by using streambyter: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/32345/boppad-midi-mash-makes-streambyter-12-strike-smash

Dude...thanks for the update and your investigative work. I’ve missed your last two posts because Vanilla on Android is a mess .

My bop is collecting dust until Drambo comes out. Will keep your findings bookmarked. Cheers.

futureaztec

Superseded the Audulus Patch. Here is the latest module. Of course, you can hook anything up.

supadom

@jollyDodger said:
ok _ feel a bit responsible for recommending this PRODUCT so I've put in an extra half day of testing:

On the software side i used drumJam ~ song beats ~ KQ Dixie ~ gadget 2 tokyo ~ loopy ~ audiobus ~ garageband

-- the big caveat to my testing was that i used midiflow with it's condition & remapping in-app purchases. Midiflow was great, I haven't tried anything else to compare it to: ((I think a flow / visual midi programming interface would of been quicker with less duplicated multipage diving - but hey it worked.. simples so awesome).

Midiflow allowed me to test quickly and reconfig the midi setup without having to jump off the ios platform to the PC/osx boppad editor too much. I set up the boppad to GM mappings. using cc mapped to all it's different outputs - no other messages used.

Issue 1* workaround

• some software struggles with the data stream from the boppad.. It's huge & fast. Anything with midiLearn is a pain to set up. I gave up with garageBand. DrumJam seemed to give me occasional ghost hihats when only a kick was sent. I think the thing do to is cull/filter out the midi to only what you need to keep software more stable.

Issue 2* workaround

• velocity sensitivity, either ghost notes being sent or difficulty to get more than 2 levels of response. : I found that I really had to tweak the global sensitivity slider &. impact dropdown (this has to be done on the boppad editor software) and curves in midiflow to get an ok working feel - having a product that is designed both for fingers and sticks is a bit ambitious - and i suspect that these settings will be unique to each manufactured boppad, like the Qunexus is.

Issue 3* workaround

• I reproduced the issue above by @supadom of simultaneous hits in different quadrants occasionally missing. The problem went away when i set up the boppad editor to single channel for all and single note per quadrent. ( this was then reconfigured in midiflow to multichannel / multinote if necessary)

Issue 4* under-investigation

• weird behaviour i still have is that... when clicking between two strikes in time, in two exactly the same places, in a constant rhythm. I can silence the pad so that even though i am hitting it, no notes are being sent.. I think this is a real 'feature', that can be configured in the global boppad settings.. i.e. if you don't lift your finger before the next strike setting.

Issue 5* under-investigation

• delayed message ghost. So sometimes when i change position within a quadrant I get the previous strike position sent being on the initial next strike. (i.e. I set up the boppad (in midiflow )so each quadrent has three multi-sampled notes, so i can get most of a standard drumset onto the one pad. Three Toms, Three Hihats, two snares & a rim, two kicks & a cymbal. - yes awesome if i can get it to work ). I need to experiment more as there are three different ways of sending position and two different ways of sending note/velocity from the bopPad.

even with these current caveats it's a keeper - love it at the moment... i practice my drum-chops on the commute with SongBeats to specific songs I'm learning. The biggest problem with the boppad is that it opens up so many options, and can therfore distract you with techy procrastination, rather than sonic musement.

will update my investigations when I have time.

I’m re-reading this as I’ve just picked up a bop pad on eBay after having sold the first one. ...(I know I went against my own advice not to buy it second hand!!!). Anyway....

I’m wondering how you’re getting on with it and if you’ve settled on one particular mode of use that you like working with it best ie: what’s disabled, what’s not, single or multichannel operation etc.

As for issue 3. So just to confirm so I understand what you’re saying: if all quadrants are on the same midi channels bop pad becomes doesn’t have missing notes when hit at the same time? If so that means that I can easily have it all on one track in Drambo!

Cheers.