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this video is a great example in particular....
one person will look at this video and say John Wayne is right black people shouldn't belly ache about the past and white people shouldn't feel guilty.
and another person would say.... John Wayne is equating the plight of what black people have gone through to himself or anyone else having been in the situation of being a poor downtrodden youth. He even states clearly that black people shouldn't basically be upset about the inequality of institutionalized racism because "they've got it better here" in America than somewhere else... (although at the time of this video I believe they had it better in France) but I digress..... I wonder if he would have been a big Obama supporter because the economy was better under Obama than it was under Bush.
You do realize the quote from the famous iconic white American @Icepulse posted above is legit right? Easily verifiable. Help me understand why you’re so eager to condemn PE and defend these famous white icons and punk rockers.
I’m done.
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Evidently. Have a lovely day.
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Hang on, misunderstanding. What I was referring to was PE’s lyric calling Elvis a racist. Whatever was wrong with the guy, he wasn’t anti any race. As for John Wayne, he wasn’t the most sensitive of fellows, but he wasn’t entirely wrong either. As our friend Kobamoto explained so well above.
As for defending what some punk bands said, are you serious. Part of the job is to articulate anger, just as Public Enemy did. Or are you saying that only black people can be angry about society?
Either way, I thought we were all having an interesting discussion, in a friendly manner. If people are going to start pulling this racist bollocks again, then I have no time or inclination to continue.
But that’s just my thing Mr. Zen, you condemned PE’s articulation of anger and defended your punk bands. You said “two famous white icons” and gave them both equal weight. You said you didn’t understand what that was about. Where’s the misunderstanding with John Wayne? (We’d have to have another conversation about their anger towards Elvis).
What kobomoto explained isn’t that John Wayne wasn’t entirely wrong, but that some people would see it that way, which it seems you fall on that side. I’m not criticizing Punk’s critique of society, so how could I be saying only black people can be angry about it? It kind of looks like you’re saying black people can’t be angry about society.
And we can all have an interesting discussion. I can have interesting discussions all day and never get tired! But interesting conversation means being challenged when we say things that may not be grounded in truth and history. Sometimes we find interesting new ways to think about things when someone sheds light on something we may have misunderstood. It can be as small as an app or as large as race. This isn’t thought policing or name calling; it’s more a call for awareness. You may have missed the mark this time, and it’s really not the worst thing in the world for someone to mention it when the stakes are this high.
I tried to clear up that I argued history from a kind of energy (rage) perspective. And I see this not as downgrading my story, music is about expression in the first place. As said earlier as far as I'm aware the energy (rage) in music became popular in the 70s through punk music and a lot of musicians were somehow inspired by it and I put a band like PE also in this tradition. Not more and not less.
I think the issue of Race in america is a huge problem, and not because it's talked about too much but precisely because it's not talked about enough. You can see we have no problem when it comes to talking about terrorism, but just like the president on his state of the nation address, when it comes to bigotry or racism by Americans we start crying about not needing to bring that up etc... he didn't even mention Las Vegas while even bringing up two other terrorist attacks. This is something that started in the old south and prevails to this day, they told blacks to stay in their place and stop stirring up trouble... by bringing up a conversation
in truth a problem is only a problem if it's a problem, and not if someone brings up that it's a problem., but we can talk about terrorism all day long.
I will say this , the tenants of racism, bigotry, and discrimination are the same everywhere... it doesn't matter if you were taught these tenants in a Madrassas, a cornfield, a colonial home, or an apartment in the hood or a police station, the tenants are all the same.... inequality towards the other , color, religion, sexual orientation, gender, nationalities.
radical terrorist discriminate against other religions, nationalities, against gay people, and against women, and in america we have political platforms who's agenda mirrors those very same tenants of isis.
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my opinion about John Wayne is that he is clearly racist
my opinion about Elvis and chuck D are that for my taste they have too much in common with Nixon and Farrakhan who are definitely racist but who doesn't love listening to a great ukulele cover of Fight the Power at a Clambake.. I know I do
In my opinion, in the US, liberals rely too much on identity politics, and conservatives use them as a wedge. Remember when Steve Bannon said, "The Democrats... the longer they talk about identity politics, I got them. I want them to talk about racism every day."
There's a book coming out this week which might make some of us feel better. Human progress is greater than it seems. You need to separate the signal from the noise, and realize when you're being manipulated for political purposes or ratings.
https://www.amazon.com/Enlightenment-Now-Science-Humanism-Progress/dp/0525427570
How wrong are you about Elvis being a racist. He never was.
Lets look at the facts: Elvis was born dirt poor. His mother picked cotton with him beside her. Their community was multi-ethnic. His friends were as well. He loved musicians of all types and he (as is documented on numerous sources) would go to listen to african american Preachers. African american gospel singers and/or musicians.
Elvis’ records were played by African-american radio stations, and record stores, all across the nation in the 1950’s and throughout Elvis’ career but in the 1950’s this was unheard of. Elvis went to many of the stations and paid his respects.
Elvis loved people of all kinds. Sadly, as was the case with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr whereby they would not allow a white person to be in the first 2 rows of marches, the photographs of Elvis spending time with young african-american children never made the papers. His visits to help african-american children were not published. The monies he gave, throughout the 1950’s and 1960’s, benefited the poor and african-americans.
When Elvis started touring again in 1969 he hired the Sweet Inspirations an all female african-american group. They spent 7 years with Elvis. Each of them, including Whitney Houston mother who was in the group, LOVED Elvis. There was no racism whatsoever. In fact, Elvis made it policy that if anyone disrespected any of the Sweet Inspirations they were….history.
Everyone from James Brown, to little Richard, to Muhammad Ali had personal relationships with Elvis and they LOVED HIM. They were more than friends.
Public Enemy rose from poverty. So did Elvis. Public enemy “borrowed” tracks and spun them into their songs. Elvis took songs and made them his own. Elvis gave millions of dollars, including cars, to African Americans and african american efforts. He donated the entire proceedings of sold out stadiums around the United States to majority african-americans who had lost possessions in tornado, victims of violence, were sick and needed help.
Elvis’, which was written by an african-american writer who loved Elvis and respected him, 1968 Singer TV Special the ending song “If I Can Dream” was a tribute to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and if you watch the video of Elvis’ singing that song he poured his heart into that song.
When, sadly, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was killed in Memphis Elvis was lived. He reached out to everyone he could. He was devastated that a “light of the world” had been diminished. He cried.
Elvis never saw color nor did he forgive, or be around, those that did.
This TRAVESTY of, in any way, putting the word “racist” with “Elvis Presley’ is a travesty and it is a lie. It is a provable lie.
I hope that this generation, and others, truly go to firsthand sources to check and verify truth(s). If not then anyone can be wrongly labeled and whether that applied to Elvis, or anyone else, it is flat out W R O N G.
If you want to see a lot of pictures of Elvis and his black friends check this link:
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_elvis_not_racist.html
And Chuck D. When Public Enemy was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2013, they thanked Minister Farrakhan in their speech. Also, Farrakhan supports Public Enemy. And we all know what Farrakhan preaches...
Quincy did like Cream, though!
+1
How old where PE when they wrote thise lyrics, like 18 or something. Naughty for exagerating. What I want to add to the mix is that Elvis and Tom Jones were great mates, I cant decide which one of them I prefer as entertainers but they were pro establishment at a time when most people were anti establishment. They famously were overheard talking about getting together to teach John Lenon some respect the old-school way, over his stance on Vietnam. Racist maybe isnt provable but certainly pro (white) power.
And we come full circle. They say dont trust white men over 40. Who do? The beatles
So much truth!
TIP: Tenets are not the occupants of a residence!
That's not a tip busker, that's a spelling correction, sheesh..... chuckles
I never said Elvis was a racist, I said he had too much in common with Nixon, and that chuck d had too much in common with LF for my taste, and trust me I have simple taste. Apparently Elvis was quite forgiving of Nixon.
President Trump has allot of black friends too, doesn't mean much to me.
institutionalized racism has been around far longer than the term 'identity politics' or the term 'political correctness' I don't know about you but in my opinion they are not mutually exclusive and can all quite nicely co-exist together. I believe in math. Institutionalized racism is more than a signal or a noise, it's a reality.
btw that looks like a great book, thanks.
people believe in terrorism from overseas, and the effects there of, they believe in the holocaust, and the effects there of, they believe in the Native American holocaust and the effects there of, they believe in gender inequality and the effects there of, and they believe in black slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, what happen to black soldiers when they came back from wars with all of the red lining etc.., the inequalities within the justice system, the judiciary system, and the education system, employment, housing, etc... but ...... they don't believe in the effects....there... of... it is what it is. That was the Dukes problem.
white folks in the front
@kobamoto said:
This wasn't a "Black March", but March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom organized in collab with several civil rights, labor, and religious organizations that came together under the banner of "jobs and freedom".
btw This was the march in which MLK did his famous speech "I have a dream" at that time (1963) support by human rights organizations (white/ left) already got bigger. Although most of the marchers in Washington were of Afro-American origin.
Seems I can't get through to you about Elvis role, attitude and meaning and importance, especially for the Afro American music community as a whole. In my eyes Elvis is an example of how you should go on in life, breaking barriers of race and helping each other and if you have money be generous to those who don't. It's so sad a lot of radicals don't even want to see this. So I rest my case with James "Say It Loud I'm Black and I'm Proud" Brown's tribute to Elvis.
Quite right. Agree with your entire post. Elvis had his issues, but being racist wasn’t among them.
In this case, signal/noise represents truth/fiction. Institutional racism is a truth, however...
That sentence is from an essay the book's author has on WSJ.com (pay wall)
If combating racism is a cause you want to champion, then more power to you. There is plenty of work to be done. But I'm here to tell you that many Americans are feeling beat over the head with identity politics.
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Ah, now I see where this went astray, DCJ.
It is unfortunately all too easy for any of us to write something down which seems clear to ourselves, only to find it has a different meaning for a reader. So, to be clear, I never meant to condemn PE for articulating anger. Indeed, I applaud that, in any music maker. What I was - and am - against, is specifically calling Elvis a racist.
As for John Wayne, yes he said some foolish things. Wayne was not really capable of expressing himself in a way that showed any sensitivity. The essence of what he tried to say was not entirely wrong, though.
Have you heard of a black, highly articulate if controversial, commentator on YouTube, called Tommy Sotomayer? Because of his racial background and location, he is not only qualified but able to address racial issues in a way that would be instantly branded racist if said by a white person. Some of his thoughts might be of interest.
Very interesting thread. Although I'm not a big fan of Elvis' music I never knew all this things about him and always had the idea he was just another white guy stealing from the black man. Probably listening too much to the haters (Public Enemy) and taking their lyrics for real. Besides his genuine style and attitude this man really deserve the title of the King especially when talking about what he meant for Black American music. Music should be beyond skin color! Nice quote from supermodel Noami Campbell 'He was not white, he was not black, he was Elvis!' Respect.
To get back to the QJ subject I get the impression that jealousy is behind his disliking the Beatles. Otherwise I can't understand it, this man has everything. Same I think counts for Public Enemy it looks like it's quite unbearable for such a radical band to see a white guy did so much, and was also so popular amongst black people. Very sad when people can't acknowlegde that there are greater ones than themselves. Seems like an ego thing to me.
Elvis Presley & The Black Community - That Echo Will Never Die
In this context, still spot on: Jonathan Pie's comment just after Trump was elected:
Seems like an intentionally controversial choice to me. That was kind of their thing. And let's remember this was nearly 30 years ago. Remember when Ozzy bit the head off a bat? Or pissed on the Alamo? Remember when Sinead O'Connor ripped up a picture of the Pope? Same kinda shit IMO.
Everything I've read/seen of Chuck D over the years indicates he's an intelligent, reasonable man, but you may be of a different opinion.
I'm not familiar with this fictitious character, but I watched this when it was previously posted here on the forum (by you?). He makes some good points...
Could be an intentional controversal choice. But I see it different from the (shock) examples you came up with. Especially keeping in mind that Chuck D is as intelligent as we think he is.
What I learned today about Elvis is that he for certain wasn't racist. To put this word in your song is just besides the truth. It's just spreading a lie. If you're fighting for a cause lying doesn't help that cause. He could just have stated that Elvis is just an asshole and means no shit to him. On the other hand Chuck D might be, as I did till this morning, wrongly informed about Elvis...
Could certainly posted by me a way back. Posted it now because I hardly see any new developments from liberals in researching why they lost it to Trump , except that now the blame for the loss is totally focussed on Russia. I would like to see more introspection.
Info about Pie:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pie