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Logic Pro x—Is it worth it, time investment wise?
The new Logic 10.4 version looks tempting. I just downloaded the 15 hr Udemy course for it . Man, this is gonna take a while! I also need to download the Lynda l.com Mac Hi Sierra course as I am not that good with an actual computer . I’m totally ios now..
Is it worth it time wise? This will take many hours but dang, 800 new loops in 10.4 as well as all the other instruments? I’ve been considering getting a Mac book .. I’m on the fence actually ..If Sampletank actually ever became AU3 compatible I might be convinced to stick with iOS.. Thiughts?
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Logic Pro X is something I’ve always found highly impressive in terms of what it can do, but ironically named as it is often far from Logical. On balance I’m glad I have it, even though I’ve not done much with it lately, due to IOS apps meeting my/ RTM requirements for the most part.
For me yes, it was and still is. In terms of content (instruments, FX, samples, loops, presets etc.) it gives you much more than all iOS DAW´s together for less money at the end. The content is worth several 1000´s indeed.
!
I find it even more easy to use than Auria f.e.
I found it easy...learning by doing. Also there are tons of tutorials and you-tube videos beside the official manual.
I mean i still use after some years just a fraction of it but it´s still a lot more i got out of my iOS apps.
A lot things are much more easy and the workflow is a lot faster compared to iOS DAW´s.
Some of the instruments and FX are even outstanding and better than most third party tools which costs the same as Logic itself.
Of course it depends on what you want to do.
I like to layer huge and complex multi-intrumens with different synths, sample libraries, FX, modulations, MIDI FX etc. and want to save them, copy them and recall them in a few seconds. That all doesn´t work in iOS yet at all.
As great as AUv3 might be in iOS, an AU plug-in in Logic is so much more useful to me due to that they all are "full" plug-ins with deep integration inside Logic (automations, MIDI FX etc).
It can be overwhelming of course and you could start with the free Garage Band (like i did) and then go with Logic Pro X after a while.
If a Sample Tank AUv3 for iOS would be a reason to not go for Logic.....not really (for me) since Logic offers in my opinion even better sampled instruments for free by now and the limit in AUv3 (especially the RAM) would make it anyway not really usable if you want to use several instances.
A long post and just my useless 2 cents from someone who started with iOS and an iPhone 4 where i made 100´s tracks and 2 albums and whatever, then got an iPad Air and bought all the iOS DAW´s and iOS synths and sample libraries, then just used my iPhone 5 and now my iPhone 6S plus (will be my last iPhone too so far).
Logic gives me just so much more in terms of creativity and tools to bring my imagination to live.
That doesn´t mean that it is not possible with iOS. But beware.....you might lick blood and there is no way back then.
Also there is nothing better to use both. IOS integrates nicely with Logic.
Whatever you do, have fun and good luck
Thanks so much, and @Cib , especially thanks for the detailed answer!
I've bought Logic not so long ago, after trying for years to stay iPad only. The one and only reason for me to buy it, was to have a good timeline-oriented squencer. With my mid 2011 macbook air, I was pleasingly surprised, how fluidly it runs on my machine.
I'm using Logic for the most part just for sequencing AU-instruments, hosted in AUM via the iConnectAudio4+. The only software instrument I use from Logic is the soft-drummer, which is excelent. This saves resources on my aging Mac and works very well.
Regarding midi-editing, Logic is miles ahead of anything, Ive tried on the iPad - even the elements-version of Cubase is, imho.
Thanks, @Earsinn .. Re sequencing I’ve considered saying iOS only and buying a Squarp Pyramid hardware sequencer .
Logic is an amazing value, provided you wanted to use a Mac anyways. After years on Ableton Live, I spent almost two years using it exclusively and know it fairly well, and I would say that it’s worth learning. If you have a solid idea in your head, or better yet a whole song worked out, Logic will help you get a finished product very quickly.
The instruments and effects are a mixed bag but that’s to be expected. I’ve almost made peace with the fact that many of their devices were designed in 1999. The sound is still there, at least. For the most part.
Compared to Ableton Live and Reason, and especially Reaper, Logic is highly streamlined (piano roll and audio editing-wise) and feature-packed to the gills. I find that I get lost unless the song is almost written, but if I have a full song envisioned, Logic is a very efficient way to get it on SoundCloud.
@jrjulius : Thank you.. But I don’t have a Mac book at this time.. I’d have to get one and learn that better. I have an iPad Pro 12.9 now and it probably offers me more options than I need . I was just wondering since I downloaded a Logic Pro x course and it seems Interesting albeit complicated. Thanks also for the perspective on Logic’s older instruments
@jrjulius : Aren’t the instruments on the later updates more of a modern nature ? (Beat sequencer , EDM, etc).
Alchemy is very modern, actually it can be whatever you want it to be and there are many gigs worth of content to download for it. Don’t be fooled by the ‘older’ content either. Sculpture is an amazing sounding synth.
In any case, Logic is a lot more stable that working on iOS once you get used to the work flow. And you can take advantage of the many free synths and tools available out there to use in Logic.
If you have Studiomux you can use your iOS synths etc... in Logic.
Thanks @pichi .. I didn’t know that (studiomux).. Actually doesn’t Garageband have a more limited version of Alchemy?
the short answer.....absolutely yes.
Logic X is the best value for money for all Mac DAW.
Is it a great deal? Yes, no doubt at all, you get a ton of content and capability for the money. Is it the best way to get into a more linear style of sequencing? Well...
Personally I think the workflow is a bit hit or miss at times, because they retain so much of their older versions still. The plug ins largely have fairly complicated GUIs, especially the softsynths. Also, I feel like too much of the more recent versions waste a lot of screen space on things you don't need to really see, like Track Icons (which I know you can hide).
For a more modern approach, I find Studio One far more forward thinking and streamlined for that style of workflow. Or maybe Reaper which offers a lot more in terms of customization, plus cheaper price. And of course, since I work for them, it would be hard not to recommend Ableton Live if you want something that seems to be truly embracing iOS with things like Link.
What really blew the lid off of iOS for me is that new NI “Sounds.com” which for a reasonable monthly fee gives you access to thousands of loops and sounds including much of the “loop loft “ library . I figure between that and BM3 plus some help from Gadget a d even Garageband, all in to Auria Oro eventually should give me O’Leary of live fodder to work with.
I do hope that the 'Live Loops' from iOS Gargeband make it to Logic Pro X some day
@Telstar5
From experience I can tell that choosing a DAW is a highly, and I repeat, highly personal thing. From what you wrote I got the impression that your aim is to learn and understand each and every corner of LPX - Really?
Today, 98% of functionality is covered by all of Reaper, Cubase, Studio One, Ableton, Bitwig, FL Studio, Samplitude, Pro Tools, Tracktion and LPX of course, so it's more likely the question which one would satisfy your idea of workflow best.
You'll have to try some for yourself, and you can start with the free ones.
I'm currently sticking with Ableton and LPX.
Ableton because it has very flexible routing, works very stable, supports pattern-oriented workflow and external remotes very well, and it has great quality effects and instruments on board.
LPX is stronger on the MIDI side (including SysEx support and the "environment"), has different instruments and FX included that complement Live well, its included library is probably the best you can get for this money, its routing flexibility is great too, and using it has become MUCH simpler over the years, lots of tiny but welcome improvements.
I'm not saying that the other DAWs are inferior, I have tried them all over the years, the above two just fit my personal taste.
The strengths I have found in other DAWs I've tried in a short summary:
Reaper:
Design your own FX and MIDI processors using its own scripting engine, rock-solid and efficient performance, very stable with most plugins, very customizable in terms of UI, audio, MIDI routing and processing.
FL Studio:
A very deep and powerful program with a number of features you still don't find in other DAWs. Supports pattern-based composition to some extent and has very powerful (if not the best) Piano Roll editing.
Studio One Pro:
Has a lot of FX on board, nice instruments, easy workflow, it's just that the routing and MIDI features were too limited for me, stumbled across them after 5min of use. Recent versions might be better.
Tracktion:
This, along with MuLab, would be my recommendation if you want an easy-to-use but still powerful DAW. It's the one that took the least time to get to grips with (except Ableton maybe), and v6 is FREE now. Friends of mine use it and they're mostly happy with it.
Bitwig:
The DAW that's closest to Ableton Live. Has some improvements over Live but not as many 3rd party Max4Live devices are available for it, and there are some fantastic ones. That's maybe the only reason why I've not switched over to Bitwig.
Cubase:
The one I started with as a child (actually Cubase LE), until they decided to no more offer proper versions without a hardware dongle. I don't want dongles, neither do I want to use a USB hub.
Otherwise it's an easy to use package, the current Pro version is very powerful and deep both for audio and MIDI, the FX quality has improved a lot over the years, a lot of good instruments are included and for the PC side it's probably the best counterpart to LPX - for the Mac, its price cannot beat LPX however.
@rs2000: Wuuut? You were able to learn ALL those? Lol.. Wow.. I’m also interested in FL studio because I could always by a Kangaroo plus PC stick for my iPad Pro and this have a functional PC , being that FL studio’s demonis sctually free until you start trying to export stuff on it . Plus it’s touch screen enabled . Can you tell me some of the features you were speaking of that the others don’t?
Yes, over the years, I'm curious enough to take the time for such frenzy, but I cannot say that I learned them thoroughly, just get them to know well and deep enough to be able to judge based on facts
Wait, you want to run FL Studio on a Kangaroo stick?
Forget it. Audio needs performance that the Kangaroo simply does not offer.
FL Studio eats even more performance than, say, Reaper, just ask people that have tried running FL Studio with a few software synths on an Intel Atom netbook.
Rather buy a small cute laptop with touch screen or even a Microsoft Surface tablet.
Not more expensive than an iPad Pro but in terms of audio, incomparably more powerful and not limited by the nasty iOS restrictions and limited apps. You won't try to fight iOS restrictions every day.
FL Studio, to begin with, has a number of Audio and MIDI processing plugins that have more options and tweakable parameters than the included FX in other DAWs. That's still the case today - with FL Studio you get what you'd have to purchase as a 3rd party product in another DAW. There's the Slicer, DirectWave sampler, Drumaxx, Groove Machine, Granulizer, Harmor, Slicex, Speech Synth, Sytrus, Gross Beat, and the FlowStone addon ... just a few standouts from my perspective.
Watch a few Youtube videos to get an idea.
Thanks.. I’m surprised at your statements re Kangaroo because the plus model has 4 gig RAM a d the FL basic requirement is only one. Again, I’m not gonna be running extra software synths.. just learning the program IF I do it . I’ve seen the videos for Harmor, etc. I love the sound of FL.
Worth every penny!After using ipads the last years for music i recently got a new mac and switched back to Logic (havent used it since V8).Couldn't be happier.
@Crabman : Which Daw (s) were you using on iPad? Auria ? Cubasis?
RAM is one thing you need, CPU power another.
Even if you plan to only run Harmor (which I doubt when you've found the other great ones inside the bundle) plus a few good FX, you need a strong CPU or it won't be fun.
Yes, I agree they sound great!
Thanks.. Is this enough?
Intel Atom™ x5-Z8500 Processor (2M Cache, up to 2.24 GHz)
No, certainly not. You don't want to limit yourself in the first place, do you?
Better get an old Core i5 laptop with >2.5GHz for roughly the same price if you really have to save money, still much more powerful than the Z8500.
Of course you can make the Z8500 work somehow by increasing audio buffer latency and limiting yourself in synth polyphony and FX, if all you want is a proof of concept that you're able to run FL Studio on a stick...
I've recently where looking for an alternative to a new Mac with Logic, cause I can't afford a powerfull 15"-model and from my readings, I came to the conclusion, that it doesn't make much sense, starting with anything bellow an i5-system.
Modern DAW's don't need processing power just for audio - the GUI's are also pretty hungry.
But I'd really love to stay with Logic - it's such a good DAW.
Personaly I wouldn't go for an Atom.
I would say only do it if your particular music-making requires the extra depth and flexibility.
The thing about desktops currently, and I don't see this changing anytime soon, is that the depth of the professional apps for mac and pc for each category we could look at is simply not likely to be realized on mobile given the current app marketplace and pricing models.
And the issue isn't for me that a person can't cobble together a decent workflow on iOS that can produce some quality results.
What I've realized is that with the depth of desktop apps like Logic, I can do a lot of those things I would be cobbling together on iOS, but in one place, and with access to 10 times more things I could easily construct within that one place.
And if I get tired of Logic for whatever reason, getting another app that is equally as deep is a few clicks away.
I think if I am ever on a platform that is causing me to spend time on forums asking when or if some killer DAW is coming out for it, while some other platform has it already, then that is the only signal I need to jump to or buy into that other platform, and the reason is that the time lost trying to make do with what I've got while not being satisfied with it can never be bought back.
For me, I'd have to say that the cost of wasted time on a platform that isn't giving me exactly what I need is far greater than any amount I could pay for access to a different platform that is already offering what I'm looking for.
But it goes beyond just music-making, to every other category in the creative realm.
Unfortunately, they usually all require interfaces to some extent to bring the touch-based world into them, such as a keyboard midi controller for DAWs, or a wacom tablet for drawing apps, but the capabilities are far deeper.
I really like sketching things out in Garageband for iOS, and then bringing it into Logic, and using the Logic Remote to control it.
That said, I really think this is a bit of an annoying hodgepodge too.
I currently have the belief that the next macbooks to come out will be touch compatible, and that rumors that Apple is going to open up iOS apps to MacOS is to have access to many touch compatible apps at launch.
Just a bunch of considerations I'm personally going through which may or may not be helpful.
@TheoryNotes : Great points, thank you!
@rs2000 , thank you also!
Alchemy is a beast and Retro Synth is very capable, especially with all the new filter types introduced in 10.4. Actually, all of the “Retro” instruments have Retina-friendly GUIs now, with Mellotron being the latest (and most welcome IMO) addition. I dont know why the visual aspect grinds my gears so much — the plugin windows are hidden 90% of the time anyways. The ES instruments were designed for much less powerful hardware, so you can use dozens before a modern processor starts to sweat. Some have really unique sounds, too — ES-P and the Ensemble synth don’t sound quite like anything else in my collection.
@Telstar5 They redesign a few older plugins with every update, and the ugly interfaces are still functional. I’m just being whiny. However, seeing as you don’t have a laptop yet AND the iPad is meeting your needs, I’m hesitant to suggest splashing out for a laptop. Spend some quality time with GarageBand; it has a simplified-but-similar workflow and it’s based on the same instruments and effects. I know the temptation all too well but trust me, you’re better off working with what you’ve got until you have a clear need for more. Almost everything I’ve done in LPX could have been done in GarageBand... Actually, same probably goes for Live.
Also, Olympia Noise Co apps integrate really nicely with GarageBand iOS via IAA (painless tempo sync, start/stop/record controls). Moog, Bram Bos, and Audio Damage have designed amazing AUs, too. You’ve got that big beautiful touchscreen, I don’t think Logic is going to change your life too drastically.