Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
I really would like to see it in every iOS DAW like it works in Logic. A channel for audio, Midi, FX and MIDI FX.
On top of that something like stacked tracks to hide a group of tracks etc.
It seems NanoStudio 2 will do most of it at the end and is wonderfully touch optimized i guess for editing (NS1 is still king of sequencers from 3.5" to 12.9" for me).
Then as version 1 you can copy/save/paste FX chains and hopefully sets of groups etc in version 2.
This is a desktop/notebook workflow which saves tons of time and should work great on iOS as well (maybe it´s possible already?).
Stuff like create a multi from several midi tracks which different FX and midi FX per channel and then you can save it and/or just copy the whole thing if you just want it to have it an octave down or up etc. and layer it up.
In my current workflow i mostly just play 3-6 parts and i´m done with a track but each parts includes often several multis and sometimes 10-20 arps chained together for live play and record.
This can get easy out of control even on a 15.6" screen and would be horror on a small multi-touch device but if you can hide these things in groups and stuff it gets really easy to use and really fast to create huge and complex layers.
Indeed....LayR shows already that this can work.
Further i really would like to have all in a DAW as well. Arp, modulations, chords, tuning etc. to can really learn a tool and get used to a GUI and stay in one powerful environment and maybe add a few AUv3 on top instead of switching around trough tons of apps and never really get in depth with any of it.
I still learn each day a few things with Logic and some iOS apps i never heard of and they are there since years
Maybe that indeed would be very close to a desktop workflow but if it´s optimized for iOS and it just works....why not.
Cubasis is a proven model of a successful commercial app that is more than sustainable. They can offer free updates but release periodic IAP features, Plugins, Effects, Sound Libraries, dedicated Drum Machine, Sampler... to keep them going. If it was not sustainable, they would have charged for major updates long ago. A single version with periodic IAPs is how apps on AppStore should ideally work so we buy the app as a one-time purchase and buy only those IAPs that we need (win-win). Korg Gadget is following the same model with IAPs for years with no issues and they have been launching multiple apps. I don't like apps that keep releasing major versions every few years and expect us to re-purchase them all over or introduce monthly subscription (apps that cannot introduce IAPs are an exception) - it only shows they could not figure out how to stay profitable. I cannot stand apps that have a subscription model.
Steinberg's business model is very simple - its not a rocket science. They offer a high-quality and rock solid app with most features right out the box (MIDI, Audio...) and it sells itself like a hot cake because it gets rated highly in every review/article/poll/forum. As for their road map, they are secretive like Apple - they release features as a surprise - which is better than promising something and failing to deliver on time.
What about Patterning 2 as an AU host?
Patterning sound module as an AU, Ring sequencer as MIDI AU - both hosted in Patterning 2 app ...
You'll have Patterning 2 as all in one, which is also able to host other AU sound engines....
Patterning sound module able to be hosted in AU host and sequenced with Rozeta (or other)
Patterning Ring Sequencer hosted in AU Host and sequencing Ruismaker (and others)
Patterning Ring Sequencer hosted in Cubasis, sequencing Patterning Sound module also hosted in Cubasis
WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN
It is also possible that a good chunk of Cubasis development is funded by the Steinberg marketing budget to give a presence on mobile which is a conduit to upsell to the desktop products. I really don't know specifically but mobile is a weird world and a lot of graphic apps do this so I would not be surprised..
Uhhh... but what about just Patterning2 as an AU host. I got lost in your 'Inception' scenario.
You AU fanatics should look at the other thread discussing all the problems devs have trying to implement AU. It may bring some reality to your viewpoint.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/26195/rosetta-in-aum-fx-slot#latest
AU Moderate here. I am all for supporting standards that have not been abandoned by Apple.
In the end, at this point whatever I get, I get. Plenty of tools to make music now.
Yes......Patterning as AU Host would be the start......
If Patterning 2 were able to host AU (the start), then the Audio engine and sequencer could also be made AU...meaning they could be hosted in any other AU host (DAW), like I said in my previous post.
@Dawdles The real benefit is reduced resource usage....
IF you like the sequencer from one app/au/vst and the sound from another, you can use just the bits you want without needing to waste valuable resources on the bits you don't want.
Those issues are all to do with preset saving and file sharing between apps.
Apple's 'vision' is that you do not have to save anything....everything is as you left it when you exited the app or closed the project.
This does not fit with the idea of user presets which you need to perform a specific save action on. Perhaps this is why there is no direction from Apple on how to do presets.....
Presets are clearly part of a musical workflow for many people...and there seems to be a blindspot to this in the master vision.
@brambos Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see how an AU could send both audio and MIDI to a host. Am I incorrect? My understanding is that an AU would have to be one of the following :
Audio Effect : Audio In -> Audio Out
MIDI Instrument : MIDI In -> Audio Out
MIDI Effect : MIDI In -> MIDI Out
But I admit, I have only spent a month or two experimenting with AU development (in the AVAudioUnit era), so I know there is still a lot to learn.
If the components (MIDI and AUDIO) are designed well as well as the host, they will co-exist on one screen to avoid the swapping.
I think the problem you are thinking about may actually more to do with touch vs mouse, the UI for touch cannot be as dense as that for mouse, so more screens are needed...
This is probably a very long conversation, that would require a few kegs worth of supplies to get through
I'm up for it though
Bingo
I think it will take a very well designed host to make this fully workable, something where window management is so simple you don't think about it.
Something like perhaps the left/right swipe with multi fingers that will swap between apps in iOS...but for loaded and open AU modules within a host, that has panes that you can arrange the AU's on to your own taste.
Or even to 'borrow' from Patterning, touch the centre and a wheel appears with all your loaded Au's, and you just select the one you want.
Without multiple physical screens, there will always be a need for window swapping.....this is one of the reasons I use hardware a lot.
Yes, AUv3 can have Audio and MIDI input and Audio and MIDI output all at the same time. It's barely documented - in fact, I think the only documentation is the blurb I wrote to document my own findings:
http://ruismaker.com/au-midi-plugins/
But you can have a look at Moog Model 15 for a proof of concept: this is an instrument which accepts MIDI input and has Audio and MIDI output simultaneously.
I am an AU moderate as well. When given the option I prefer AU, provided it performs well. When the AU version is bugged, I fall back to the IAA version, when possible.
It is good to have both options, but as long as the app works and does something that I find useful or interesting, then I can and will use it. I use apps that have no connectivity and are portrait mode only. It is a PITA, but I can make it work.
I would assume it is less trouble for me to find a workaround than it would be to recode an app, so I try not to pressure some developer into making an app more convenient for my personal workflows. If I want some feature, I may suggest it to a developer in a PM. If it doesn’t happen, I look for another way. I never keep asking.
I get that AU is important to some of you. I get that it is important for the future of iOS music. But the constant demanding of AU for every single app is very tiresome. If you are not interested in an app because it is not AU, so what? Most of the devs that you are making demands of are aware of AU and its current role and status. If it was that easy to make an app AU, I’m sure they would do it.
I mainly wanted to reference the other thread where the developers are discussing the AU issues so people are more aware of what they are asking for. Some people seem to think it is just a simple matter of developers’ preferences, like they can just choose AU or IAA when they publish their app, much like we can choose between WAV and MP3 for our audio mixdown.
Not trying to tell people what to do or say, or how to act. I just needed to rant about this “we demand AU” nonsense, which I perceive as a negative toward the overall community feeling on the forum. You may just be trying to discuss your preference of workflow, but it is still negative towards developers when you promote ignoring their efforts publicly.
Look at what I’ve said prior and while I may have communicated it slightly wrong, it makes more sense than taking the one part you’ve selected. We need more hosts that are more aimed towards promoting the AU individual source and midi model. This is not really that easy to start off because as I really meant (I wrote it slightly wrong), that Steinberg have been doing this for years because they have a full blown DAW on PC etc to fall back on. They can do things (like Korg) that many other devs just would not be able to do.
Yes, the model is sound by having extra sources of income such as IAP etc - it’s not rocket science is such a patronising comment, so I won’t take much notice of the rest if you can’t make polite discussion.
Why are so many people just wanting to piss on any conversation regarding AU? I wish they would all just feck off lol
For me the bottom line is what music are people making with the tools that are already here instead of sitting around whining about whether something is AU or not? If the music is good then who cares how it was made?
That’s a pretty gerenal response, and one I generally agree with.
My point is that they maybe don’t realize the demanding tone they are taking. The people who state that they will not consider an app that is not AU are taking a negative stance toward certain developers. No AU, and they will not even consider what the app offers otherwise.
Not sure what split of opinion you are referring to regarding a beneficial future for AU.
As far as the just ignore it suggestion...how do you suggest I unsee something I just read?
I read the comment to find out what it says, them I react to it like any other living human, but in my own personal way. Besides, I am just discussing the peceived tone of some of these comments and how they may have a negative effect on the forum. So, it does interest and affect me. Not sure why you would think that wasn’t the case.