AUv3 hard limits

[Deleted User]

@yowza said:
For me the bottom line is what music are people making with the tools that are already here instead of sitting around whining about whether something is AU or not? If the music is good then who cares how it was made?

What is wrong with having a thread to discuss AU and future possibilities? You are not forced to join in or even read any of it.

yowza

I wasn't really speaking to you. Did I say there was anything wrong with the thread? We all work and think differently and are allowed to have opinions (just like you) at least the last time I looked.

Edit: Oh and in case you wonder I do like AUs, a lot actually, but I don't care which tool I use to get my ideas down. Most of the time it's on a guitar.

[Deleted User]

@yowza said:
I wasn't really speaking to you. Did I say there was anything wrong with the thread? We all work and think differently and are allowed to have opinions (just like you) at least the last time I looked.

When you comment on a thread regarding how stuff is made and AU in the context of your comment, you should expect that people would think it was to do with the thread you post it on.

yowza

I'm not sure why you are trying to pick a fight with me so I'm not going to bite. Of course I was commenting on this thread (duh!) but I guess I'm only allowed to comment about AUs if I totally agree with you? ( I don't disagree with you, I just don't think in the bigger picture of music, it matters that much how the music is actually made). Carry on

[Deleted User]

@yowza said:
I'm not sure why you are trying to pick a fight with me so I'm not going to bite. Of course I was commenting on this thread (duh!) but I guess I'm only allowed to comment about AUs if I totally agree with you? ( I don't disagree with you, I just don't think in the bigger picture of music, it matters that much how the music is actually made). Carry on

Saying that people are whining about it is in the vain of name calling and not really opinion on AU - it’s opinion on the people discussing AU, quite rude opinion. It’s not a fight - you asked why I made comment on your original comment and I am letting you know why.

AudioGus

@CracklePot said:
I am an AU moderate as well. When given the option I prefer AU, provided it performs well. When the AU version is bugged, I fall back to the IAA version, when possible.

It is good to have both options, but as long as the app works and does something that I find useful or interesting, then I can and will use it. I use apps that have no connectivity and are portrait mode only. It is a PITA, but I can make it work.

I would assume it is less trouble for me to find a workaround than it would be to recode an app, so I try not to pressure some developer into making an app more convenient for my personal workflows. If I want some feature, I may suggest it to a developer in a PM. If it doesn’t happen, I look for another way. I never keep asking.

I get that AU is important to some of you. I get that it is important for the future of iOS music. But the constant demanding of AU for every single app is very tiresome. If you are not interested in an app because it is not AU, so what? Most of the devs that you are making demands of are aware of AU and its current role and status. If it was that easy to make an app AU, I’m sure they would do it.

I mainly wanted to reference the other thread where the developers are discussing the AU issues so people are more aware of what they are asking for. Some people seem to think it is just a simple matter of developers’ preferences, like they can just choose AU or IAA when they publish their app, much like we can choose between WAV and MP3 for our audio mixdown.

Not trying to tell people what to do or say, or how to act. I just needed to rant about this “we demand AU” nonsense, which I perceive as a negative toward the overall community feeling on the forum. You may just be trying to discuss your preference of workflow, but it is still negative towards developers when you promote ignoring their efforts publicly.

I don’t think anyone said ‘we demand’ and I take it that I am not the ‘you’ you are actually speaking of in the above text. Like when you said ‘Most of the devs that you are making demands of...’. I think you may be making a large cartoon meta character out of a bunch of disparate comments and creating a single unified group. There is a ton of people saying a bunch of different things for different reasons.

MobileMusic

@Fruitbat1919 said:

@powerobject said:

Yes, the model is sound by having extra sources of income such as IAP etc - it’s not rocket science is such a patronising comment, so I won’t take much notice of the rest if you can’t make polite discussion.

Oops, I did not mean to insult anyone's intelligence or sound patronizing (I mentioned Korg too for the same reason). You guys are all great with experience! What I meant to say was Auria did not have MIDI, NS did not have Audio, Gadget did not have Audio... (initially/out of the box) and I was hinting that MIDI and Audio should be standard in any DAW.

CracklePot

@AudioGus said:

@CracklePot said:
I am an AU moderate as well. When given the option I prefer AU, provided it performs well. When the AU version is bugged, I fall back to the IAA version, when possible.

It is good to have both options, but as long as the app works and does something that I find useful or interesting, then I can and will use it. I use apps that have no connectivity and are portrait mode only. It is a PITA, but I can make it work.

I would assume it is less trouble for me to find a workaround than it would be to recode an app, so I try not to pressure some developer into making an app more convenient for my personal workflows. If I want some feature, I may suggest it to a developer in a PM. If it doesn’t happen, I look for another way. I never keep asking.

I get that AU is important to some of you. I get that it is important for the future of iOS music. But the constant demanding of AU for every single app is very tiresome. If you are not interested in an app because it is not AU, so what? Most of the devs that you are making demands of are aware of AU and its current role and status. If it was that easy to make an app AU, I’m sure they would do it.

I mainly wanted to reference the other thread where the developers are discussing the AU issues so people are more aware of what they are asking for. Some people seem to think it is just a simple matter of developers’ preferences, like they can just choose AU or IAA when they publish their app, much like we can choose between WAV and MP3 for our audio mixdown.

Not trying to tell people what to do or say, or how to act. I just needed to rant about this “we demand AU” nonsense, which I perceive as a negative toward the overall community feeling on the forum. You may just be trying to discuss your preference of workflow, but it is still negative towards developers when you promote ignoring their efforts publicly.

I don’t think anyone said ‘we demand’ and I take it that I am not the ‘you’ you are actually speaking of in the above text. Like when you said ‘Most of the devs that you are making demands of...’. I think you may be making a large cartoon meta character out of a bunch of disparate comments and creating a single unified group. There is a ton of people saying a bunch of different things for different reasons.

I am addressing comments in general, not the commenters. I haven’t been keeping track of that. I am posting on this thread to address all the people focused on AU. I am referring to the derailment of other threads that are discussing apps, not AU. If you don’t see something wrong with that trend, then you should try thinking beyond yourself and put yourself in the devs position.

Let’s say you worked really hard on a song and posted about it on the forum, looking for feedback. Let’s say you happen to mention you used Gadget. Now imagine how you would feel if some Auria users derailed your thread and would only comment on how you should have used Auria, you need to go back and redo it in Auria, they can’t be bothered to even listen to it since it wasn’t done in Auria. Nothing about the music, just a bunch of irrelevant comments about Auria is the future and you should just use that. All other DAWs are outdated and should be abandoned.

If I was the one who posted about a song and that is all the response I got back, I would feel pretty shit. Don’t forget that these apps you dismiss are creations of the developers, the same as your music is your creation if you are primarily engaged in making music. I am sure they feel the same way toward their apps as you do toward your creations, and they are a part of this forum/community the same as anyone else. I don’t see people being inconsiderate when commenting on other people’s music, so why not stop being inconsiderate towards developers and their apps too?

(Not directed toward @AudioGus in any way. He just replied last.)

AudioGus

@CracklePot said:

@AudioGus said:

@CracklePot said:
I am an AU moderate as well. When given the option I prefer AU, provided it performs well. When the AU version is bugged, I fall back to the IAA version, when possible.

It is good to have both options, but as long as the app works and does something that I find useful or interesting, then I can and will use it. I use apps that have no connectivity and are portrait mode only. It is a PITA, but I can make it work.

I would assume it is less trouble for me to find a workaround than it would be to recode an app, so I try not to pressure some developer into making an app more convenient for my personal workflows. If I want some feature, I may suggest it to a developer in a PM. If it doesn’t happen, I look for another way. I never keep asking.

I get that AU is important to some of you. I get that it is important for the future of iOS music. But the constant demanding of AU for every single app is very tiresome. If you are not interested in an app because it is not AU, so what? Most of the devs that you are making demands of are aware of AU and its current role and status. If it was that easy to make an app AU, I’m sure they would do it.

I mainly wanted to reference the other thread where the developers are discussing the AU issues so people are more aware of what they are asking for. Some people seem to think it is just a simple matter of developers’ preferences, like they can just choose AU or IAA when they publish their app, much like we can choose between WAV and MP3 for our audio mixdown.

Not trying to tell people what to do or say, or how to act. I just needed to rant about this “we demand AU” nonsense, which I perceive as a negative toward the overall community feeling on the forum. You may just be trying to discuss your preference of workflow, but it is still negative towards developers when you promote ignoring their efforts publicly.

I don’t think anyone said ‘we demand’ and I take it that I am not the ‘you’ you are actually speaking of in the above text. Like when you said ‘Most of the devs that you are making demands of...’. I think you may be making a large cartoon meta character out of a bunch of disparate comments and creating a single unified group. There is a ton of people saying a bunch of different things for different reasons.

I am addressing comments in general, not the commenters. I haven’t been keeping track of that. I am posting on this thread to address all the people focused on AU. I am referring to the derailment of other threads that are discussing apps, not AU. If you don’t see something wrong with that trend, then you should try thinking beyond yourself and put yourself in the devs position.

Let’s say you worked really hard on a song and posted about it on the forum, looking for feedback. Let’s say you happen to mention you used Gadget. Now imagine how you would feel if some Auria users derailed your thread and would only comment on how you should have used Auria, you need to go back and redo it in Auria, they can’t be bothered to even listen to it since it wasn’t done in Auria. Nothing about the music, just a bunch of irrelevant comments about Auria is the future and you should just use that. All other DAWs are outdated and should be abandoned.

If I was the one who posted about a song and that is all the response I got back, I would feel pretty shit. Don’t forget that these apps you dismiss are creations of the developers, the same as your music is your creation if you are primarily engaged in making music. I am sure they feel the same way toward their apps as you do toward your creations, and they are a part of this forum/community the same as anyone else. I don’t see people being inconsiderate when commenting on other people’s music, so why not stop being inconsiderate towards developers and their apps too?

(Not directed toward @AudioGus in any way. He just replied last.)

So when you say "If you don’t see something wrong with that trend, then you should try thinking beyond yourself and put yourself in the devs position."...

...so since I don't see something wrong with that trend is this comment directed to me?

PS. I make mobile games for a living and have heard it all so maybe I just have a thick skin, like I assume audio devs do.

[Deleted User]

It’s days like today that make me wonder why I bother with this forum

AudioGus

@Fruitbat1919 said:
It’s days like today that make me wonder why I bother with this forum

I come for the entertainment.

CracklePot

@audiogus then yeah, that was directed to you as well.
Anyway, I’m done. Carry on with your AU circle jerk.

[Deleted User]

We all have our ideas and opinions. They are inherently biased by our knowledge and experience. The problem we have with the AU debate is there is no right or wrong answer. The issue is purely subjective based on preference and workflow. Sometimes we could all be more accepting of the opinions of others and not take them so personally. Life’s too short for all that.

AudioGus

@CracklePot said:
@audiogus then yeah, that was directed to you as well.
Anyway, I’m done. Carry on with your AU circle jerk.

Cool, thanks man.

AudioGus

@Beathoven said:
We all have our ideas and opinions. They are inherently biased by our knowledge and experience. The problem we have with the AU debate is there is no right or wrong answer. The issue is purely subjective based on preference and workflow. Sometimes we could all be more accepting of the opinions of others and not take them so personally. Life’s too short for all that.

Sounds like a solution.

AudioGus

Ack... Just missed out on a perfectly good 'hard limits' comeback.

realdawei

Well I love me some AU so I’ll tolerate all the stones being thrown at us. It was actually much worse when AUv3 first came out

realdawei

@AudioGus said:

@realdawei said:
A good example for the kind of AU MIDI OUT I’m interested in is a Drum AU Roli Noise. It has its own sounds but I can use it’s touch surface to record it’s MIDI events direct to the timeline.

Modular sequencers plugins are also very cool, maybe even cooler. But basic MIDI out in other plugins are also very useful.

I think Patterning 2 is an epic missed AUpportunity — but that’s how things go.

What about Patterning 2 as an AU host?

My use case is combining instrument plugins with audio tracks (vocals, guitars, live woodwinds etc) in a single sequencer environment. So patterning as an AU host would not help me here

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

AndyPlankton

@Dawdles said:

@CracklePot said:

@AudioGus said:

@CracklePot said:
I am an AU moderate as well. When given the option I prefer AU, provided it performs well. When the AU version is bugged, I fall back to the IAA version, when possible.

It is good to have both options, but as long as the app works and does something that I find useful or interesting, then I can and will use it. I use apps that have no connectivity and are portrait mode only. It is a PITA, but I can make it work.

I would assume it is less trouble for me to find a workaround than it would be to recode an app, so I try not to pressure some developer into making an app more convenient for my personal workflows. If I want some feature, I may suggest it to a developer in a PM. If it doesn’t happen, I look for another way. I never keep asking.

I get that AU is important to some of you. I get that it is important for the future of iOS music. But the constant demanding of AU for every single app is very tiresome. If you are not interested in an app because it is not AU, so what? Most of the devs that you are making demands of are aware of AU and its current role and status. If it was that easy to make an app AU, I’m sure they would do it.

I mainly wanted to reference the other thread where the developers are discussing the AU issues so people are more aware of what they are asking for. Some people seem to think it is just a simple matter of developers’ preferences, like they can just choose AU or IAA when they publish their app, much like we can choose between WAV and MP3 for our audio mixdown.

Not trying to tell people what to do or say, or how to act. I just needed to rant about this “we demand AU” nonsense, which I perceive as a negative toward the overall community feeling on the forum. You may just be trying to discuss your preference of workflow, but it is still negative towards developers when you promote ignoring their efforts publicly.

I don’t think anyone said ‘we demand’ and I take it that I am not the ‘you’ you are actually speaking of in the above text. Like when you said ‘Most of the devs that you are making demands of...’. I think you may be making a large cartoon meta character out of a bunch of disparate comments and creating a single unified group. There is a ton of people saying a bunch of different things for different reasons.

I am addressing comments in general, not the commenters. I haven’t been keeping track of that. I am posting on this thread to address all the people focused on AU. I am referring to the derailment of other threads that are discussing apps, not AU. If you don’t see something wrong with that trend, then you should try thinking beyond yourself and put yourself in the devs position.

Let’s say you worked really hard on a song and posted about it on the forum, looking for feedback. Let’s say you happen to mention you used Gadget. Now imagine how you would feel if some Auria users derailed your thread and would only comment on how you should have used Auria, you need to go back and redo it in Auria, they can’t be bothered to even listen to it since it wasn’t done in Auria. Nothing about the music, just a bunch of irrelevant comments about Auria is the future and you should just use that. All other DAWs are outdated and should be abandoned.

If I was the one who posted about a song and that is all the response I got back, I would feel pretty shit. Don’t forget that these apps you dismiss are creations of the developers, the same as your music is your creation if you are primarily engaged in making music. I am sure they feel the same way toward their apps as you do toward your creations, and they are a part of this forum/community the same as anyone else. I don’t see people being inconsiderate when commenting on other people’s music, so why not stop being inconsiderate towards developers and their apps too?

(Not directed toward @AudioGus in any way. He just replied last.)

Jeez. Can't even start a thread ABOUT AU without people feeling they have to witter on about 'not talking about AU'.

Your example is ridiculous. NO ONE would say 'your song sucks because you didn't use Auria, go back and do it again'. Or 'I'm not gonna even listen because it wasn't done in Auria'. Total nonsense. They might however say, 'it's not really my thing, but nice production' or 'nice track but for me the drums are too loud' or if you're only selling it on tape they might say, 'I quit buying physical, but I'd buy an MP3 version'.....

All responses that are equivalent to 'looks nice but won't really work for me without AU'. Difference on this forum is that some people feel the need to constantly debate the above with 'Look this guy cares about his LP, so even tho it's not your genre, the drums are too loud and you quit buying physical music.... You should still buy the tape, because I am and I have no issue with any of those things that you do'.

If you're charging £10 for your music then you need to realise that you've deemed it of value and any post you make with links is clearly marketing and opens everything up to critique. If people can't handle hearing these kind of polite criticisms like the above then they're probably better off not opening themselves up to criticism by posting on a forum, or anywhere online, in the first place.

Devs need to keep up if they wanna avoid similar critique. For the patterning guy to ask a couple of months before release, when the product is almost finished, if fullscreen AU was a thing. And then whether an AU can do audio + midi.... These are questions I would have found answers for long ago if coding ios was my living...Theres nothing wrong with not knowing that stuff, or not implementing it, it just opens the door for valid criticism on many levels in terms of an app being truly progressive/current if its coming out in 2018 at £15 without current 'new app' standards...

Patterning is amazing. No doubt. Just a shame it won't play as nice with the other kids as it might have done.. Big deal for some people, irrelevant to others. But everyone's voice is of equal importance. If you're reading the same things too often then it's probably just a sign of transition/change. Don't let it get it to you so much....

Negative feedback is probably more use to a developer than positive....they already know the positives, otherwise they wouldn't be publishing it.
Patting on the back is all well and good, but doesn't do anything other than boost ego, Comments like, I won't buy your app because I don't like A, B or C is far more useful.

That being said..THIS thread is about AU implementation in its various forms and a discussion about how we all see what would be good for us and what wouldn't, what benefits there are to a particular way and what drawbacks there are.

TTFN - I'll come back when the moon is properly aligned with the stars again..and peace is restored

[Deleted User]

@CracklePot said:

@AudioGus said:

@CracklePot said:
I am an AU moderate as well. When given the option I prefer AU, provided it performs well. When the AU version is bugged, I fall back to the IAA version, when possible.

It is good to have both options, but as long as the app works and does something that I find useful or interesting, then I can and will use it. I use apps that have no connectivity and are portrait mode only. It is a PITA, but I can make it work.

I would assume it is less trouble for me to find a workaround than it would be to recode an app, so I try not to pressure some developer into making an app more convenient for my personal workflows. If I want some feature, I may suggest it to a developer in a PM. If it doesn’t happen, I look for another way. I never keep asking.

I get that AU is important to some of you. I get that it is important for the future of iOS music. But the constant demanding of AU for every single app is very tiresome. If you are not interested in an app because it is not AU, so what? Most of the devs that you are making demands of are aware of AU and its current role and status. If it was that easy to make an app AU, I’m sure they would do it.

I mainly wanted to reference the other thread where the developers are discussing the AU issues so people are more aware of what they are asking for. Some people seem to think it is just a simple matter of developers’ preferences, like they can just choose AU or IAA when they publish their app, much like we can choose between WAV and MP3 for our audio mixdown.

Not trying to tell people what to do or say, or how to act. I just needed to rant about this “we demand AU” nonsense, which I perceive as a negative toward the overall community feeling on the forum. You may just be trying to discuss your preference of workflow, but it is still negative towards developers when you promote ignoring their efforts publicly.

I don’t think anyone said ‘we demand’ and I take it that I am not the ‘you’ you are actually speaking of in the above text. Like when you said ‘Most of the devs that you are making demands of...’. I think you may be making a large cartoon meta character out of a bunch of disparate comments and creating a single unified group. There is a ton of people saying a bunch of different things for different reasons.

I am addressing comments in general, not the commenters. I haven’t been keeping track of that. I am posting on this thread to address all the people focused on AU. I am referring to the derailment of other threads that are discussing apps, not AU. If you don’t see something wrong with that trend, then you should try thinking beyond yourself and put yourself in the devs position.

Let’s say you worked really hard on a song and posted about it on the forum, looking for feedback. Let’s say you happen to mention you used Gadget. Now imagine how you would feel if some Auria users derailed your thread and would only comment on how you should have used Auria, you need to go back and redo it in Auria, they can’t be bothered to even listen to it since it wasn’t done in Auria. Nothing about the music, just a bunch of irrelevant comments about Auria is the future and you should just use that. All other DAWs are outdated and should be abandoned.

If I was the one who posted about a song and that is all the response I got back, I would feel pretty shit. Don’t forget that these apps you dismiss are creations of the developers, the same as your music is your creation if you are primarily engaged in making music. I am sure they feel the same way toward their apps as you do toward your creations, and they are a part of this forum/community the same as anyone else. I don’t see people being inconsiderate when commenting on other people’s music, so why not stop being inconsiderate towards developers and their apps too?

(Not directed toward @AudioGus in any way. He just replied last.)

I think the flaw in this stance is that if developers are interested in selling apps, they would also be interested in what people who buy apps would want. Developers have other tools available to them to try and gauge potential sales too besides forums like Audiobus. In some respects sharing your honest opinions about apps and proposed apps can be useful to developers. Just don’t expect them to agree to create an app which conforms to your desires as there are a lot of issues developers consider when creating apps.

The same thing could be said of offering advice to other forum members. Are they seeking your advice?

In general it’s not a good idea to be rude when you’re requesting things as it doesn’t contribute anything towards your goal and can frequently detract from it.

It’s questionable as to how much of a community there is or how many values are shared among forum members as there are differences in workflows, the value of iOS to their overall music efforts, and what sort of responses they consider to be appropriate in posts.

In addition, there are the usual personal conflicts.

Given all of these moving parts, there will be limits as too how much consensus or tolerance for other people’s needs, wants, and behaviors there will be on the forum. In general, I think @Michael allows us to govern ourselves so hopefully we can make the most of this free forum.