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Time to focus on pianotechnics...
I have struggled many many years with my pianotechnic and pianoplaying.
But, since I sold my Korg SP-280 last year (not that happy with that piano) I’m in the mood for buying a new real hammer action digital piano...
But, I hesitating between a digital piano with onboard sound and speaker system, or, Studiologic SL88 Studio (only a MIDI-controller with no sound)...
My plan with the SL88 is to complete it with two studiomonitors like JBL LSR-305...
The price on that will be in pair with Yamaha P-125, Roland FP30 or Kawai ES110 (all three with onboard sound)...
With Studiologic SL88 Studio I can use my iPad Pro with some of the real nice pianoapps that’s it good enough...
What do yuo others think? Best choise here?
Anyone here with experience with any of the three real digital pianos?
Comments
This is such a subjective question but I have opinions.
I've been installing IOS Pianos and have some preferences but they are subjective. I love the various Colossus Piano models on my iPad and iPhone for example with various sample sizes, layers, etc:
Colossus Concert Grand $49.99
Japanese Grand $12.99
Baby Grand Piano $26.99
Classic B Grand $15.99
The $16 piano is really good but the $50 grand is my favorite.
I also have iGrand (free and $'s versions), Ravenscroft 275, Korg Module w IAP Ivory Piano (the best all around sample product for live playing), SampleTank's Miroslav Orch that has a nice Grand Piano sample.
The best price/value is the BS-16i App ($8) loaded with the free SoundFonts4u "Salamander Yamaha C5". There are many free pianos in these downloadable SoundFont sets. It rivals the best App's for sample quality. I need to pull the piano sample out of the huge download to free up RAM for other App's on my iPad).
NOTE: These pianos take hours to download from the store and have huge storage requirements. They also load into the iPad and iPhone very slowly (like 30 seconds for example). I can't run anything else with the $50 samples on my iPhone 5S so it becomes my portable sound module for piano recitals.
I'd love to have a real quality MIDI Controller with Fatar action like the StudioLogic. I do have a Casio PX-560 which has a nice keyboard and Casio makes piano focus products (PX-360, etc) that are around the price of the SL88 and have internal piano samples and built-in speakers so they are as simple as possible for portable use cases. Get to a store and play all the digitals (Yamaha, Roland, Nord, Casio). I find the Casio's compete at a discounted price point.
PianoManChuck has video's demo and contrasting all the top models in various price categories and he led me to the Casio PX-560 at $1100 vs other models with excellent piano keyboards.
Let your ears and your fingers guide you or use Digital Piano forums to be fully informed by experts in "real piano player" reviews. They rave about Fatar actions for example and the SL88 has one at the best price, I think.
NOTE: The "hours to download" ONLY refers to the Colossus Pianos. I added the SoundFonts4u paragraph after and NOW see I imply they take hours to download. They do NOT. They take a minute or 2. Sorry for the confusion SoundFonts4u guy! Many will not read any further and a lie once put on the Internet takes on a life of it's own. I should read again before posting.
Am I the only one who read “pyrotechnics” when scanning the forum headlines?
My question still is; will an iPad with Colossus 14GB piano sounds the same, or better, then a dedicated digital piano like the new Yamaha P-125 or similar?
Often is not only the pianosamples that make it sound good...
How big is the samplepacks in this digital pianos around $600-$700?
And, perhaps it’s the best just to switch on an piano with onboard sounds and speakers...?
If a got the space in our house, I certainly would get a real upright piano also!
Here in Sweden you can get an used nice upright piano with superb sound for $100 or less! Sometimes for free...
You might consider Roland A-88, Ravenscroft 275. I have Mackie MR4s and love them.
OT do you know of Andy Fite, an American jazz guitarist living in Sweden? If not check him
Out he plays and teaches. Formidable!
Ha!
Right pianotechnic might be just like pyrotechnic!
A 14GB sample will sound better than the sample in most digital pianos except for the very high end Nord's, Yamaha Motif, etc because they have a ton of sample memory and excellent digital/audio converters.
I keep my iPhone/iPad cables ready so I can just plug in and the piano sounds come out of my Yamaha Studio monitors spaced out to provide true stereo imaging. I actually leave them plugged in to re-charge over night as a rule.
They sound pretty good and would make most people perfectly happy. The Casio PX-360 sounds like a real piano when I see someone playing it in a club.
Where I start to be dissatisfied with the Digital Piano sound is after listening to one for a hour or more I can hear the digital artifacts in the sound. There begin to sound somewhat harsh.
My Casio PX-560 tries to mitigate this effect by sending the sound of the speakers out of the rear panel so they bounce the sound off the wall and it absorbs some of the highs that are a by product of digital electronics that the vinyl audiophiles hate.
It's certainly a lot less messy than having all these extra cables my wife hates so much.
Yamaha, Roland, Korg and Casio make home pianos that look just like the usual console uprights and even some Grand models.
True. Nothing beats a real acoustic piano for sounding like a real piano. As acoustic piano players die the instrument needs a new home.
NOTE: I sold a $40,000 Grand recently for $20,000 because 6 months of dropping the price did not surface 1 legitimate buyer. The local music store owner told me of a potential buyer that only had a $20,000 budget so I took the deal rather than sell it to a used piano dealer who knew I was desperate. There are great deals in this market if you have the room.
A cheap piano will probably not have the action of a good Fatar controller or the Casio, Yamaha, Korg units for that matter. The Casio model I have uses a key covering that feels like Ivory to the touch and that's useful to develop good technique. Friction on the surface matters to proper touch esp. when playing very softly.
It's a tough decision. Go to a Store and play the digital models and one of them will stand out. Just get one with MIDI USB port and Aux Input and you can add the iPhone/iPad if you'd like to hear one.
Thank's for a complete and nice answer on this topic!
I'm just about to take my car into Stockholm City today to visit DeLuxe Music Store (Swedens biggest music store) for some test on some digital pianos and perhaps a few MIDI-controllers with hammer action keys...
In the same time i'm curious how a Studiologic SL88 Studio with two JBL LSR-305 sounds with my iPad and Ravenscroft275 pianoapp...
Hard choise - small problem compares to other big world problems of today ;-)
I'll be back for an presentation of todays store-tour...
Oh, something more to take in consideration is:
If I choose one of the three digitalpianos Yamaha P-125, Kawai ES110 or Roland FP30, Roland and Kawai has bluetooth MIDI and Yamaha only USB/5pin MIDI...
How well does Bluetooth MIDI function from Ravenscroft275 or Colossus pianoapp?
Roland FP is the only of this three that has matte surface keys, bluetooth and USB connection...
Hmmm... Not an easy choice...
I have had a yamaha p-120 for about 17 years. Never any issues. The keys feel pretty legit to me. On board speaker are tuned nicely and vibrate the piano so the experience feels real. In person it sounds great. Only one piano sound is good though, and the rhodes is workable but definitely not nord/neosoulkeys. The rest is shit. I have moved it out of my studio space in the hopes that my 7 and 10 year old kids are motivated to switch it on and play.
I would suggest something with decent/great onboard sounds and onboard speakers. And then you can “upgrade” sounds, etc later on
@vpich an P-120 for 17 years?
Hmmm...
You mean an P-115 for 17 month, or?
Thank’s anyway...
If you have the time add the iGrand Free App to your iPad to demo an iPad piano app into speakers. Better yet buy Ravenscroft 275... it loads fast and sounds great.
No. I mean 17 yrs. it seems that they have used similar numbers on newer models. I believe it was the speaker version of the p-80 or p-90. To be honest the newer p models i have seen in a store seem to have a lighter keybed.
Great review of the Yamaha P-125:
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/yamaha-p-125-digital-piano-review/?id=LBpSB1cOAVANTggJVQxRRQAEDlgB&utm_content=video1-image&utm_source=insync&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20180526
I own Yamaha PSR-EW300 (76 keys, some steps below P-125) and connected to iPad (USB to HOST) and running the Piano IAP by Beathawk sounds throusand times better than the internal sounds.
Even the bs-16i sf sound much better.
Regarding the BT connection bs the wired, I'm okey if the keyboard includes both of them.
On the other hand, I'm lookin for the same, buying a P-125 or DGX-660, or a proper 88 keys controller, but honestly, I'm 90% decided for the first option.
Yeah! Jacob Dupre is a fabulous piano player! And, at least here, the Yamaha P-125 sounds great!
I “skipped” most of my piano lessons because of my guitar nails.
I regret it today
After this weekends testing in stores, I ordered Studiologic SL88 Studio and two studiomonitors, JBL LSR305...
To be clear then, I skiped the digital pianos I tested and go for a pure MIDI-controller with hammer action keys, connected to my iPad Pro and Ravenscroft 275 pianoapp...
That combo will make me enough happy and delighted!
Sure, It may be easier to just power up an dedicated digital piano with onboard sounds and so, but, the JBL LSR305 in conjuction with my iPad will blow all the other pianos away...
I’ll be back and comment on this when I riged this combo in our house later this week...
I think that's an excellent decision. I'd encourage you to try the BS-16i App and get the SoundFonts4U Salamander Piano set and try it out. It will also give you a complete General MIDI/GS Sound set and support MIDI file playback and multitrack recording. It costs $8 and has IAP upgrades to 128 from 64 note polyphony ($3) and a high-resolution Synth ($5). I was so pleased with the B-16i capabilities I upgraded just to say thank you. The man behind the SoundFonts4U deserves a big thank you as well and I emailed him directly.
iPad Apps can addicting and there are dozens of excellent products to choose from.: Drum machines, synths, DAW's, Effects units and utilities. For a small additional amount you will truly compete with the highest capability Yamaha, Roland and Korg Synth/Samplers.
I already own BS-16i, but never use it :-(
But, I’ve also have Auria Pro with a lot of pianos copied from my Logic Pro X and also Salamander (1GB-version)...
Salamander it truely great for the cost ;-)
But, Ravenscroft 275 will certainly be the piano I will go for most...
I own almost every piano to iOS, but not Crudebytes two biggest in Colossus... Perhaps in the future, I really like iSymphonic from Crudebyte already...
The $16 Collossus "Black" Baby Grand is quite good but the $50 "Brown" Grand is heavenly. It just takes forever to download (about 12 hours for me) and each daily load is about 30 seconds. If you have a 4GB iPad Pro then you'll have extra RAM after loading this sampled piano.
Nothing sounds quite like it. It has the sound of a Grand captured in a great room for playing piano: deep, dark tones and sensitive to all levels of touch. If you like iSymphonic you might have a clue what the engineer is capable of producing when he samples.
Enjoy your new equipment. I envy the Fatar action of the StudioLogic SL88 and a great pair of monitors.
@ErrkaPetti, if you own a Mac, had you considered Pianoteq?
https://www.pianoteq.com
Even the Less expensive Stage version is great!
I was eyeing the Studiologic SL88 as well, as a controller for Ravenscroft (and others), so yeah, please report back on how it feels. Also, how is it with Synths?
Yeah, I got an Macbook Pro, but, I don’t know, but my time with iOS compare with MacOS is 95% vs 5%...
Almost never use my Mac, although I have a lot of good software, including Logic Pro X and full Sampletank 3 etc etc...
Since I’ve bought my first iPad summer 2010, my life and behavior has change a lot!
I’m 100% satisfied with my 2017 iPad Pro 12.9” 256GB/4G... Use it for every important issue ;-)
Yeah, I’ll coming back with a “review” in a few days... Pretty nice price with my combination - Studiologic SL88 Studio, Two JBL LSR305 including two stable nice speakerstands and a cable between my iPad and the two monitors - 6010:- Swedish crowns incl VAT (around $550/€620)...
Good morning from Sweden!
Now I have my first impression with my new piano setup (Studiologic SL88 Studio, Two JBL LSR305 and a few pianoapps)...
First, I’m super satisfied with the MIDI-keyboard from Studiologic, great key action, really high quality built with nice finish...
Second, the JBL LSR305 studiomonitors is great, especially for the price, and, sounds great when I play music thru Tidal HiFi-streaming...
But, there’s a but, Ravenscroft 275 pianoapp sounds awful from my iPad Pro 12.9” (2017 gen)!
It’s really strange, even when connect the JBL monitors to a CD-player and playing great dynamic music from a CD/record the JBL sounding really great...
But, not from Ravenscroft or a few others pianoapps..
When connecting several expensive headphones to my iPad, playing the Studiologic and the sound coming from Ravenscroft 275, it sounds top notch!
Hmmm... Something is wrong here... I’ll be back when I have more to say...
@ErrkaPetti
thanks for the report and pics ... I have a similar thing with my monitors and piano apps, they‘re decent monitors but I much prefer to play the piano apps over good head phones.
I believe that you might find the experience to be more pleasing if you turn the speakers to face the wall. It creates a sound that seems to come from the room... like a real acoustic piano would. It rolls off the highs and creates a better EQ vs listening directly to speaker which can sound "electronic" (i.e. overly bright and somewhat annoying to the ear). Humor me and give it a test... just face them backwards. I'll await the mix specialists telling me I'm way off base. "You loose phase alignment." Most expensive digital pianos hide the speaker "drivers" (i.e the plastic cones) and often bounce the sound off the wall behind the "piano" so the sound comes from the "cabinet soundboard" like it would with a console or grand piano.
What we might need is a speaker system that drives a $10,000 soundboard. Lows on the left and highs on the right.
Headphones put you in a "room" and the sound is around you. Not a bad simulation for a rel piano experience. It's not about sonic fidelity... it's fooling you into believing it's the acoustic experience.
I’ll give this a try...
Unfortunately I haven’t had the time to go deeper just now with this...
The extremely early summer here in Sweden with Spanish weather, make it almost impossible to sit inside in our house and playing piano ;-)
At the same time, this is the time in the year that I feel fresh enough to go deeper into my hobbies...
My first move is to test the “speakersfacesthewall” and then rig the setup in one of our bigger rooms in the house to compare the sonic characteristics...
I bring back some written experiences here later this June... Meanwhile we eagerly awaiting Synthmaster One...