Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
Absolutely. This whole modular thing is just a work around for what a daw already does, albeit in a clunky way, and having to load up multiple apps and wire them here and wire them there, a mess of spaghetti. Kills the creative flow.
And regarding low cost iOS. That’s a complete anomaly. Once you purchase all your fx, AUs etc etc you’ve already spent a few hundred, and many have spent a lot lot more. Yet You can buy Logic Pro x daw for 199. And it is the most incredibly feature packed daw. It’s unbelievable. High end synths, effects, audio, midi functionality. Anything you could possibly imagine comes in the latest version without any need to bug anything else.
It’s fine to want something different. I do however think there is some misunderstandings by the way you guys are describing how you see the modular approach. I however have tried, but will leave it to someone with better language skills and more patience to continue
But "DAW-less" is popular for a reason. For many people the DAW distracts from the fun of making music. The whole point is getting away from it.
If you see making music as a job that needs to be approached with maximum efficience, sure: you can't beat a DAW. But if making music means "getting lost in musical structures and sounds" then the DAW has a nasty habit of getting in the way like an overprotective nanny...
You keep repeating this, but I still think it's simply untrue. iOS = ridiculously low cost. Sure, Logic may be cheap, but that's because Apple is paying it for you.
You really believe making something like Cubasis is simple because it doesn't have busses?
I think Cubasis is one of the more complex music apps currently in the App Store. Busses schmusses! Most of the complexity is hidden behind its elegant UI, but that simplicity is deceptive!
Maybe we indeed see DAW´s as a different thing. What AUM, Audiobus and some other environments do to combine apps is the same i can actually do in most modern DAW´s without having to use too much of the DAW´s feature if you want. It can as simple as you want or as complex as you want.
And i again (believe me or not, i still like to do things with iOS) iOS = low cost is still an illusion if you really look behind the wall. If you search for things you can get quite EVERYTHING for free if you want.
At the end it´s just about one thing....the OS and form of input you prefer and last but not least the tools you want to use.
I can say i really could imagine to do 100% iOS only things if there would be some of my favorite mac tools for iOS (of course clever translated to multi-touch).
But saving money or having something really unique wouldn´t be a reason here these days.
But maybe people are just don´t aware what all is available on certain platforms and/or think more about DAW usage from the 90´s or so.
And of course as usual we all see things from a different point and so most of what we all say here are NO FACTS at all....just opinions.
Sure, no arguing with that. But either way, I don't believe Cubasis on iOS is a huge money-maker for Steinberg, especially since all the buying-frenzy seems to happen when it's on sale. They're probably seeing it as a gateway drug for the big desktop Cubase (just speculating). But a full-featured Ableton Live without too many features left out would be an even more colossal undertaking. I don't see that being a good, realistic investment for too many big music software companies at this point.
That is true for sure...at least i think so too. The thing is i use both platforms now since years and creating a stable multi-non DAW set-up is still a lot more complicated and unstable and needs a lot more time i could do f.e. in Logic without using it actually as a DAW, just as platform to live jam and combine things like you would do with Audiobus, AUM etc....which at the end are also just DAW´s without a midi/audio timeline sequencer.
And again i think a great multi-touch DAW like NanoStudio 2 is as complex and at the same time as simple to use as iOS is good for. Add some AUv3...voila´. Of course my worthless opinion.
Of course i like to be proven wrong and would like to see actually results here from people doing all this stuff.
But sadly there isn´t much to hear here beside some short experiments or really mostly talk about it and you see of course some great things from the same few people here.
So i wonder if it really grows or if that is more just a feeling in this forum here.
You assume that everybody makes and records music for others to listen to. I think that is a misconception. Making music has become an activity that is as much a creative outlet as it is entertainment and a way to unwind.
This doesn’t necessarily involve a lot of traditional recording and publishing anymore. That’s part of the paradigm change, if my observations are correct.
Are you hinting that in times past, the way to mis-spend your youth was in front of a games machine, now the way to mis-spend your middle-age is in front of a muddler synth?
No no, i know what you mean....THIS is exactly i do 90% of the time. Jamming around and experimenting and just playing music and no one ever will hear it. But of course sometimes you want to record things maybe or share with the world.
But this is also what is hard to enjoy for me with iOS. I f.e. can just hold a chord and sustain it and then i could go on with this for an hour and just tweak knobs to transform this chord into whatever and/or make rhythmic morphs and so on. This is where iOS is also sadly too far away in terms of quality and depth (for me at least).
Again i can´t say enough how sad i am that my favorite synth P900 doesn´t make it to iOS (and it was almost there).
It´s just so much better sounding as everything on iOS (and also all my other desktop tools) and joy to use if i just f.e. sustain an arp and then tweak the knobs. The magic happens how tight and rich it can sound if you start to live tweak envelopes, filter and so on.
The only iOS app where i feel this joy in live jamming is Model D (but still far way from P900) and the old Alchemy (i can´t use anymore). And believe we when i they i would prefer this to do right now on an iPad Pro with multi-touch.
This is a situation where i actually have to use workarounds on my notebook to get multi-touch there trough apps and the trackpad or using my iPhone as controller. But i really hate to set this up.
I want mostly exact what you might describe. Take one device and just jam and let things evolve, without the goal to create a track but it might end in a happy accident.
F.e. Model 15 doesn´t even have real multi-touch enabled for tweaking parameters. It feels more like a reversed world sometimes for me and i have the right tools on the wrong device
It would be interesting to conduct a poll and ask people this. I’d genuinely be interested to know how large a percentage of people who make music on their iPad just to unwind is. I’d have been surprised if that is a high number, but interested to be proven otherwise.
Pretty much, preferably while repeatedly hitting a ‘random’ button
Maybe i said it wrong. I just wonder if a lot people really are interested in this since we never know if people mainly do it for themselves (what i actually do indeed on iOS and mac as well).
I mean just people talking how great things are but often i have the feeling they do not create much but waiting for the next best thing. That doesn´t mean they doesn´t make awesome things, i just want to see/hear more of it since i might learn from it of course.
Usual DAW approach IMO:
Modular in the sense of sound sources and FX
Audio and midi recording structure tends to be a fixed part of the program itself. The timeline (linear or not) tends to be a fixed part of the program. Onscreen keyboards, drum pads, some arpeggiators, sequencing etc are mostly part of the program itself. These aspects are mostly not modular in nature
My suggested approach that I believe is possible but not quite there yet:
Host will still add sound sources and FX will still remain as AU, but can be full on synths or just components as in a modular synth.
The host will still keep the sync and timing duties that the DAW does now. The rest is the box that holds the components together - like a modular approach, this ‘box’ or host, will give great customisation of how the component parts can be put together via audio and midi.
The keyboard, drum pads, XY pads etc etc, will all be AUs and can be used in different ways. The timelines, drum sequencers, arpeggios, LFOs, midi recorders, audio recorders etc etc, will all be AUs and used in a modular way.
Some hosts may have a semi modular structure with certain fixed audio and midi paths, some may be much more adaptable.
The point is that the host is mainly there to give some structure and do timing and sync duties. The one other major host duty is to take snap shots of everything! Basically you want an ableton live type of set up? You can have a template for that. Linear workflow? Yeah template for that. Something more esoteric? Yeah, you guessed it.
Is it possible now? Yes pretty much it is in concept, yet the parts do not exist yet. Far more AU controllers are needed. AU audio and midi recorders are needed. Above all though we need to move away from hosts containing so many of the components and to having a more modular structure and signal paths for both audio and midi.
Now how can these new hosts sell, when the basic app would do very little without at least some component parts? Well, the App Store does bundles. The dev could make and supply basic components and have some template saves already supplied. Then the buyer has choice what they use - don’t like the built in keyboard? Change it!
We are seeing glimmers of this approach. Not there by any stretch, but the possibilities truly excite me. Think of a host with similar design aspects of KRFT. Think outside the box of DAW + VST, as while that is a perfectly acceptable approach, there is simply other ways and these other ways do not have to be ‘fixes’ - they are just different
Sorry, but that is all possible right now....Not sure for what are you waiting then?
I have lots of apps. I do not have any host app that can do what I’ve described above.
Use VCV rack with your DAW
I mean the audio and midi in general is always fixed in some ways. If it´s AUM, Audiobus, any DAW on any OS etc.
The only thing which is really modular....is just a modular. VCV rack can be used f.e. also as plugin to output sound, use as FX, midi, sequencers etc.
But something like Reaktor might be really modular in any way you would want but that isn´t really fun to use for me at all.
Otherwise i can do the same i do on iOS in my DAW, that´s it.
But if iOS had something like VCV rack it would be nice of course.
You haven’t described what I have with what you suggest.
Whatever, you can do exact the same things in general on all OS on all devices these days....just choose the form of input you prefer. If you want modular....use it
I give up lmfao
I give up too. So all is well
Of course all is well. We don’t agree, but it ain’t WWIII
Host app to do what you have described = beatmaker 3
It’s a sampler at its core. A sophisticated one. But has linear timeline if you want. Clip and pattern based playback if you want that. Basic in built effects. Then everything else is modular. In that you connect whatever AU midi or audio effects you want to suit your workflow.
BM3 does not do the things I’ve described. I have the choice of two key bed inputs in BM3 - hardly modular touch screen input device. BM3 however good it is, still is pretty much a standard DAW, although one of the better iOS ones.
Ok. I don’t know what two key bed inputs means anyway so i will chime out of this one then.
I would be keen to see examples of the modular setup that many have discussed here though and how producers make full songs where they can go back and hone and finess different parts and elements etc as opposed to a one take live jam. Ie once you have embedded your exported live jam into block waves as someone suggested earlier you can’t go back to redo it if you found it now didn’t fit into the whole song once you were able to take an overview of the final product etc. Without some hassle anyway.
Am very open minded to trying new things. And if this is a good way to go in terms of producing full song tracks, would be interested in knowing more. To date, haven’t seen many video examples of this in action though without the use of a daw.