Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

What is Loopy Pro?Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.

Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.

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Apps with subscription models Opinions/ Discussion

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Comments

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @skulptur_sound said:

    @Dubbylabby said:
    I'm jumping into hardware for different reasons. Subscription model is one of these.
    I will probably even ditch my iPad and just keep a iPhone whatever to keep the few apps I trust and had been being useful over the past 3 years. Lots of apps have gone and I lost money, other directly are useless and will be never installed in my iDevice anymore...
    So until Apple release a subscription model for full iOS/macOS everywhere I simply pass on these and focus more and more into hardware.
    I even looking for an old i7 mac mini to recover Ableton/Mainstage for stage until the perfect hardware solution will emerge... (something like the child between ToRaiz Sampler and Roland Workstation...)

    Yo, check out the new jjos3 on mpc1000... it dropped in July and is a new os for the mpc1000. Totally brought new life to my old mpc...

    I will check it but I’m not huge fan of mpc workflow...

  • Maybe a subscription model like spotify would work. You subscribe to the apple app store and can download all apps. The author of the app gets paid for the amount of time users use their app.
    Just a crazy idea.

  • @fattigman said:
    Maybe a subscription model like spotify would work. You subscribe to the apple app store and can download all apps. The author of the app gets paid for the amount of time users use their app.
    Just a crazy idea.

    How much would you be prepared to pay for that?

  • @BiancaNeve said:

    @fattigman said:
    Maybe a subscription model like spotify would work. You subscribe to the apple app store and can download all apps. The author of the app gets paid for the amount of time users use their app.
    Just a crazy idea.

    How much would you be prepared to pay for that?

    I don’t know but maybe around 10€-30€.

  • edited July 2018

    Maybe 10€ for x apps 20€ for y apps and 30€ for unlimited apps

  • Since I might seem to be in the same corner as Dawdless, I feel the need to separate myself from the needless arrogant and aggressive ways, he/she is acting out on here.
    Please refrain from hateful answers to this post, I am only expressing my personal opinion, and wish to go on politely. Thus, I will not react to any kind of insult that might result as a reaction to this post. Thank you!

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @fattigman said:
    Maybe 10€ for x apps 20€ for y apps and 30€!for unlimited apps

    One way would be something like $9.99-$19.99/month per 'app category'(Music, Games, Utilities, Photo & Video)?
    As a recovering 'app-o-holic' my current spending rate is around ~$40 per month sometimes less sometimes more.

    I avoid using a credit card on the AppStore since it makes it a bit easier to keep the 'bad habits' under control.
    (I can't even do 'subscription', store-credits are only good for iCloud Drive, Apple Music and Video rentals the rest require a credit-card last time I checked).

    I suspect we'd get into the same dilemma as Spotify meaning the more content providers there are in the 'content pool' the lower the pay-out per content provider will be...

  • @Dawdles said:
    You’re clearly obsessed with £....Try not to forget that there’s a person behind every iTunes payment you get. We’re not just walking pots of money for you to figure out how to brainwash and drain most effectively.

    @Dawdles said:
    And the sycophant sheep mentality thing is just embarrassing

    @Dawdles said:
    The whole thing just feels super flaky and a Hail Mary money grab

    @Dawdles said:
    You’re an idiot.

    @Dawdles said:
    Grow up.

    @Dawdles said:
    Yawn. I sometimes wonder if some people on here live on the same planet....

    I'm probably wasting time saying this because you are obviously blind to your own faults, but your tone is arrogant and toxic. People like you make the forum a lot less pleasant to hang out it.

  • @Samu Each app gets paid for the amount of usage. I mean apple already register everything we do on our devices I guess the OS already supports registering the amount of running time per app. Then there’s no need for category. Categories can be tricky because some apps can be in several categories.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • I don’t actually mind the idea of subscription and I do ultimately see it as the terminus of how software things get sold and maintained.

    The big difference is that instead of having an iPad filled with more music-creating apps than I can even remember buying, most of which aren’t being used for years at a time, and when they do it’ll be for a quick bout of re-discovery – instead of that scenario, I’d have about one app. Perhaps two, but I doubt I’d push the boat out that far.

    I’d subscribe to approximately one app, ever, and only during times of employment (such as at the moment) and abandon the subscription during times of no employment (such as the past four years). This is fairly obvious. I can’t do more than one. It’d be like having two phone contracts – most people have one, and if they can’t get out of it and have to wait for the contract time to expire they grumble and wait for the remainder of the year or 18 months and then move with relief. What they don’t do is simply get another more desirable phone contract on top of the existing one. A rich person (ie, employed with future prospects in a conventional western-world / European style society) almost certainly could support two phone contracts without financial harm, but it is seen as absurd, so people don’t. Similarly, I’d subscribe to one app, not two, and never even entertain buying random apps in the interim. And when I’m not working, that subscription would be the first luxury to go.

    In terms of hardware, I’ve always had hardware (bought or built) but in reality there’s other alternatives these days, plus a twist.

    A lot of hardware is actually hardware which supports software. Think of all the hardware synths that have OS updates which give new features – the Roland Airas, the Circuit, etc.

    A lot of software is open source, and on Linux, represents a good usable studio’s worth of gear. I use Linux as much as macOS as my two main non-mobile OSs, and although Linux software is ugly as fuck and badly documented, it works as a tool or as an appliance, and I’d go back to using open source of course, if I want more than one luxury subscription iOS app as part of the studio. I’d be more likely to have the hands-on synth as a luxury subscription iOS app, and the rest of the studio, for mixing and mastering, would be on Linux and open source.

    To sum up, the big difference is that I would never have bought most of the apps on my iPad. Arguably I shouldn’t have anyway. But, for the one that I would have bought, I’d pay close attention to it and use it a lot, as I’m paying a regular subscription for it (it’d be something quite all-encompassing, such as Audulus, I’d estimate).

  • To add my two cents; I have no problem paying subscriptions for apps that I (a) use for work and therefore make money from my continued investment, or (b) use on a daily basis.. such as entertainment or productivity apps. Making music is just a hobby for me and IOS as a platform has allowed me (and I’m sure a lot of others) to indulge in a wide variety of music apps that I wouldn’t have otherwise experienced on the desktop. To me the fact that iOS is not a desktop ecosystem is what makes it so great.

  • @Dawdles said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Dawdles said:
    You’re clearly obsessed with £....Try not to forget that there’s a person behind every iTunes payment you get. We’re not just walking pots of money for you to figure out how to brainwash and drain most effectively.

    @Dawdles said:
    And the sycophant sheep mentality thing is just embarrassing

    @Dawdles said:
    The whole thing just feels super flaky and a Hail Mary money grab

    @Dawdles said:
    You’re an idiot.

    @Dawdles said:
    Grow up.

    @Dawdles said:
    Yawn. I sometimes wonder if some people on here live on the same planet....

    I'm probably wasting time saying this because you are obviously blind to your own faults, but your tone is arrogant and toxic. People like you make the forum a lot less pleasant to hang out it.

    So easy to take a few words out of context to whip up some slur..

    ‘People like you’

    ‘Toxic’

    ‘Obviously blind’

    ‘Your own faults’

    You see how that works? Need to be involved in full conversation to grasp the intention/reason/tone behind each of the quotes you pulled. Half of those were in response to people being argumentative themselves or just banging the same reasoning out over and over...

    But in any case, I feel sorry for people that have nothing better to do than to nitpick on others behaviour over trivialities. Again, I think we live in different worlds if you find anything I said in this thread was truly aggressive or arrogant...At least I don’t have the arrogance or aggression to try and keep other humans in check over miniscule behaviour defects..

    At least five people have called you out in this thread alone, but instead of tacking stock and thinking that maybe there's something wrong in the way you're communicating, you double-down.

    You're heading for a ban, because you're not capable of civil discourse. I won't miss you when you're gone :)

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  • @Dawdles said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Dawdles said:

    @richardyot said:

    @Dawdles said:
    You’re clearly obsessed with £....Try not to forget that there’s a person behind every iTunes payment you get. We’re not just walking pots of money for you to figure out how to brainwash and drain most effectively.

    @Dawdles said:
    And the sycophant sheep mentality thing is just embarrassing

    @Dawdles said:
    The whole thing just feels super flaky and a Hail Mary money grab

    @Dawdles said:
    You’re an idiot.

    @Dawdles said:
    Grow up.

    @Dawdles said:
    Yawn. I sometimes wonder if some people on here live on the same planet....

    I'm probably wasting time saying this because you are obviously blind to your own faults, but your tone is arrogant and toxic. People like you make the forum a lot less pleasant to hang out it.

    So easy to take a few words out of context to whip up some slur..

    ‘People like you’

    ‘Toxic’

    ‘Obviously blind’

    ‘Your own faults’

    You see how that works? Need to be involved in full conversation to grasp the intention/reason/tone behind each of the quotes you pulled. Half of those were in response to people being argumentative themselves or just banging the same reasoning out over and over...

    But in any case, I feel sorry for people that have nothing better to do than to nitpick on others behaviour over trivialities. Again, I think we live in different worlds if you find anything I said in this thread was truly aggressive or arrogant...At least I don’t have the arrogance or aggression to try and keep other humans in check over miniscule behaviour defects..

    At least five people have called you out in this thread alone, but instead of tacking stock and thinking that maybe there's something wrong in the way you're communicating, you double-down.

    You're heading for a ban, because you're not capable of civil discourse. I won't miss you when you're gone :)

    You’re perhaps a little unwell, dear boy... Think happier, less spiteful thoughts, you’ll feel better.

    I just re-read the entire thread. I stand by 99% of what I’ve written. No apologies I’m afraid.

    I’ll be ignoring any more bait from you for the sake of the thread. Ta-ra...

    I think people need to remember that only @michael has the authority to ban anyone so if he’s okay with how @Dawdles has conducted himself in this thread, who are we to criticize his approaches? Clearly this is a free speech zone and a certain amount of behavior many of us might not approve of will be tolerated.

    Personally I think there have been too many ad hominem attacks in the thread. If there’s something you don’t like, it’s probably not a good idea to try a similar approach yourself.

  • edited July 2018

    @Michael said:
    @Dawdles has been warned about his behaviour on this thread, which I consider to be unacceptable. Please continue to flag inappropriate content, it's very helpful.

    Caution! Unreasonably flagging others (or each other) can backfire as a matter of forum etiquette as they are reviewed by a human being.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • At starter of this thread I was curious about thoughts of the subscription model and never thought that there would be extreme responses. It's a pity that @brambos, one of the most engaging devs also very active on this forum, dropped out... Anyway I learned some interesting things from devs and users and views. Never thought of the unique state of iOS vs real platforms like Windows and MacOS as mentioned by @RUST( i )K. iOS is I think a platform the is still in development by Apple. The heavy yearly and sometimes smaller updates updates that continually can "break" old apps + the not all to clear development guidelines and undocumented stuff especially for audio apps makes that devs can have their handfull on keeping on par with the latest iOS version.
    Als Apple's role is somehow to rigid in my eyes. The discontinuation of 32 bits apps was in my eyes totally not necessary. On a platform as Windows you still can run nearly all 32 bit audio software and VST plugins.
    I started this thread especially because more and more of my photo and editing software on iOS went subscription based. I personally find this annoying because devs just drop the old version. Come up with a new one that is crippled and for uncrippling you start to pay weekly, montly or yearly.
    I personally think the future is like wat we saw on Windows and MacOS that there will be a few big DAWs and devs that develop AU plugins. Also I think we will see a decline in more creative and standalone apps.

  • @Dawdles said:

    @lovadamusic said:

    @Dawdles said:

    @lovadamusic said:

    @Dawdles said:

    @lovadamusic said:

    @baldajan said:

    @Dawdles said:
    @baldajan
    “IMO, every app's eventual goal should be to go subscription. As a consumer - it does suck, but as it becomes more normalized, we'll see more apps do it, and less complaints.”

    Are you aware that you’re saying things like this out loud? From a human and customer angle its quite gross and depressing :( What you’re saying in that quote is ‘it’s a bum direction for users but they’re dumb and will soon forget life before subscriptions’... I know you’re in business but maybe you shouldn’t have these kind of discussions directly with customers and save them for the boardroom? Clearly neither side has the other’s best interest as priority so this thread was always doomed in that respect...

    If you wanna go subscription with Medley just do it, put your money where you’re mouth is, but don’t expect people to be glad about another app trying to make subscription the norm. TBH I never heard of your app til this thread, which from my POV would make it seem like a very risky strategy, but maybe it’ll work out for you...

    Charging for an app or IAP is also a "bum direction for users". Increasing prices (to even match inflation), or rolling out a new IAP that isn't part of an old IAP is also a "bum direction for users". Releasing a major version that costs the same for all users is also a "bum direction for users". Call me out of touch, but I don't understand why my statement is "gross", but is in fact reality. But to clarify, I've never called users dumb, but generally, users are adverse to change.

    I still remember the days when Facebook would announce a new UI change and users would be up in arms against it. Then they'd get use to it.

    The move towards subscriptions by apps, as we see more apps move in this direction, is playing out in the same way when paid apps included IAPs, and when free apps included IAPs. Not sure if you remember, but when IAPs were introduced, they were for paid apps only. A 'free app is free' - Steve Jobs declared when he announced IAPs.

    People first thought, "I don't want to pay more for an app I already paid for" - that's actually valid and I don't think it succeed much (I could be wrong). Then Apple reversed that decision a year or so later, and free apps got IAPs too. And the community was up in arms. It's deceptive. It's bad. A free app is no longer free! As the dust settled, we've seen new business models and apps come out and a user base that embraces free apps with IAPs. We've also seen great executions of free with IAPs, that I don't believe we've seen much with subscriptions.

    Medly doesn't offer subscriptions - IAPs have been fairly successful thus far for us, though limiting in their design. A simple Apple limiting example is we can't localize the price, to bring it down to better match the cost of living in a region (we can with subscriptions). Another failure of IAPs is, as we build our content library, it makes zero financial sense for us to spend time adding new loops and content for our legacy packs, unless we offer update pricing, which makes everything either more expensive and/or more confusing. We also can't mix packs to create better sample songs for users since we can't assume they own X pack.

    My replies to this post wasn't because "Medly is moving towards subscriptions, please like us" - I've refrained from using our app name and being specific about it. I got involved because there are serious misconceptions being spread around that I felt needed to be addressed - especially from a very opinionated developer...

    Thanks. It's interesting to hear from an actual iOS developer. You've provided much information and some perspective we don't often see here. We know many users don't like the idea of subscriptions, especially on iOS, and see the idea as a dire threat.

    I think the problem on this platform for smaller developers capable of providing significant products, who want decent pay for their work, is that this is just not a good enough market. The iOS music-making market basically has what it wants -- loads of super inexpensive apps, and with free updates, that continue to feed the desire for something new. At least up to now, enough devs are willing to work in this environment, many doing it just because they like making apps.

    We hear lots of complaints -- Apple does this or doesn't do that, apps aren't stable and reliable enough, apps aren't as feature rich as desktop, and why is this great desktop app not offered on iOS? and apps get abandoned, etc..., but it's just talk. The iOS market doesn't want to support this level of product. It's why they scream bloody murder about even the idea of an app asking for a subscription. What if I can't buy or have every app I see? A developer daring to try the subscription model is the devil. Every bogus rationale is trotted out to 'splain why subscriptions are stupid or illegitimate.

    Many in professional or higher end markets are willing to pay a subscription for something if they need/want it bad enough. Like we'll pay large amounts of money for a really great product. Low cost subscriptions should be attractive to some more casual users if the desire for the app is strong. So despite tremendous competition from developers providing inexpensive non-subscription apps, and even free ones, no reason other developers shouldn't strive for financial success. Make it and they will come. That's the basic engine that drives progress. iOS doesn't appear to be ready for that. It still wants tons of everything for cheap, and taken to an extreme, subscriptions would be a serious threat to that if it became the standard.

    No one doesn’t want devs to be successful. Just do it via incredible, unique apps with perfect workflows for touchscreen that (at launch) can truly be said to be as high quality and refined as the apps on other platforms that charge bigger bucks. Make incredible apps and Charge like £30-£50+ for them and feature updates via IAP. Not via pricing models that make a mess of people’s finances and decision making. And fwiw id be just as opposed to the suggestion of all desktop apps going subscription. It has nothing to do with platform or people’s reluctance to throw money at ios in general.

    Half the iOS devs seem to be super small teams or one man shows. What if they get sick? Or they get obsessed with new products? It’s not like big companies where other parts of the staff can take over and devote time to the app that’s being subscribed to. The whole thing just feels super flaky and a Hail Mary money grab...maybe a few apps where it could be a feasible deal for customers, fully featured, regularly updated industry standard daws mainly, but outside of that I’m just not seeing the benefit...

    I don't see anyone here asking that anyone be forced to subscribe to anything. If an app doesn't cut it for you as is, or you don't trust the dev, steer clear.

    Generally speaking, if I really liked an iOS app, I wouldn't be averse to paying a subscription, assuming it was a reasonable amount for my situation. I would pay because I like the app as is, not so much because of future plans. If the app doesn't continue to satisfy, I just save my work in a universal format and stop subscribing. I don't see it as a higher risk than buying outright.

    The discussion here is about the subscription model in general, and I see no good reason to simply condemn it out of hand. If a dev creates a great app because the subscription model is attractive to them, it's good news for everyone willing to buy in.

    @baldajan said ““IMO, every app's eventual goal should be to go subscription”.... That scenario would basically = being forced in to subscriptions, at least if you want to use anything you don’t already have..

    That's kind of like saying every app's goal is to be good enough to attract users willing to support it with their wallets. If a dev believes only the subscription model can accomplish that, then the opinion above follows. Why shouldn't they be free to believe that and pursue that model? The market will decide if that's the only viable model. Nobody is forced to do anything.

    You’re not making sense. If all apps go sub then there’s no other option. That = forced. I’m not saying they all will. Just saying they all shouldn’t.

    I can't help it if I don't make sense to you. :) The market will decide if the subscription model is the only model that works for all developers. Other than baseless paranoia, I have no idea why someone would believe that's going to happen but, if it did, then that's how the free market works. If you don't want to support the only way producers think they can make money, then you can CHOOSE not to buy.

    If enough people choose not to subscribe to apps, other producers will look to that market as an alternative. Look at what Affinity is doing to capture the market Adobe left behind. Like right now, iOS music-making devs are apparently struggling, but they have a CHOICE to produce for iOS or not. No one is forced to do anything. You don't like the options, find another way. But considering how much is available today for free or almost nothing, there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that these kinds of devs are going to all start charging subscriptions. There almost certainly will always be other options to subscriptions, but maybe at some point iOS musicians won't have the upper hand and get everything they want. It can be a tough life. :)

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @lovadamusic said:
    I can't help it if I don't make sense to you. :) The market will decide if the subscription model is the only model that works for all developers. Other than baseless paranoia, I have no idea why someone would believe that's going to happen but, if it did, then that's how the free market works. If you don't want to support the only way producers think they can make money, then you can CHOOSE not to buy.

    If enough people choose not to subscribe to apps, other producers will look to that market as an alternative. Look at what Affinity is doing to capture the market Adobe left behind. Like right now, iOS music-making devs are apparently struggling, but they have a CHOICE to produce for iOS or not. No one is forced to do anything. You don't like the options, find another way. But considering how much is available today for free or almost nothing, there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that these kinds of devs are going to all start charging subscriptions. There almost certainly will always be other options to subscriptions, but maybe at some point iOS musicians won't have the upper hand and get everything they want. It can be a tough life. :)

    I do want to clarify: I do indeed think that the goal of all (paid or freemium) apps should go subscription, but that doesn't mean I think all of those apps will go subscription. I also don't think all app subscriptions should cost $5+/mo - some should have a charge of $1-10/year to help pay for the app's continued support. Some may decide to use subscriptions as a donation platform for their app (as some have suggested). Subscriptions are still new to the software world, and they take the place of apps that released a major version every year or two.

    In regards to Affinity, I haven't seen anything that suggests they captured a market that Adobe left behind in regards to subscriptions. I mean, we own and use Affinity Designer, but also subscribe to Adobe CC.

    But this also reminds me of Sketch, where a little over 2 years ago, they went to "subscription", but with a twist (that unfortunately isn't possible on iOS or the Mac App Store). I highly encourage you to read up on their post. But if you don't read the whole post, take a read at the most highlighted bit:

    Until now, it has been our custom to release a major version of Sketch (2.0, 3.0, etc) every couple of years as a paid upgrade, with minor updates (3.1, 3.2, etc) for free in between. While this is a very common model for software, we don’t think it is fair: customers who have purchased an app closer to the original release date get free updates for longer than someone who bought the same product halfway through its release cycle. We think a fairer approach is for everybody to get the same period of free updates, no matter when they purchased the app.

    Though it technically isn't a subscription, given that they have a thriving community of Sketch files you can download and use, not having the latest version is almost certainly going to slow you down. It's a really interesting model that unfortunately isn't possible under Apple.

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  • edited July 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @baldajan said:

    @lovadamusic said:
    I can't help it if I don't make sense to you. :) The market will decide if the subscription model is the only model that works for all developers. Other than baseless paranoia, I have no idea why someone would believe that's going to happen but, if it did, then that's how the free market works. If you don't want to support the only way producers think they can make money, then you can CHOOSE not to buy.

    If enough people choose not to subscribe to apps, other producers will look to that market as an alternative. Look at what Affinity is doing to capture the market Adobe left behind. Like right now, iOS music-making devs are apparently struggling, but they have a CHOICE to produce for iOS or not. No one is forced to do anything. You don't like the options, find another way. But considering how much is available today for free or almost nothing, there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that these kinds of devs are going to all start charging subscriptions. There almost certainly will always be other options to subscriptions, but maybe at some point iOS musicians won't have the upper hand and get everything they want. It can be a tough life. :)

    I do want to clarify: I do indeed think that the goal of all (paid or freemium) apps should go subscription, but that doesn't mean I think all of those apps will go subscription. I also don't think all app subscriptions should cost $5+/mo - some should have a charge of $1-10/year to help pay for the app's continued support. Some may decide to use subscriptions as a donation platform for their app (as some have suggested). Subscriptions are still new to the software world, and they take the place of apps that released a major version every year or two.

    In regards to Affinity, I haven't seen anything that suggests they captured a market that Adobe left behind in regards to subscriptions. I mean, we own and use Affinity Designer, but also subscribe to Adobe CC.

    But this also reminds me of Sketch, where a little over 2 years ago, they went to "subscription", but with a twist (that unfortunately isn't possible on iOS or the Mac App Store). I highly encourage you to read up on their post. But if you don't read the whole post, take a read at the most highlighted bit:

    Until now, it has been our custom to release a major version of Sketch (2.0, 3.0, etc) every couple of years as a paid upgrade, with minor updates (3.1, 3.2, etc) for free in between. While this is a very common model for software, we don’t think it is fair: customers who have purchased an app closer to the original release date get free updates for longer than someone who bought the same product halfway through its release cycle. We think a fairer approach is for everybody to get the same period of free updates, no matter when they purchased the app.

    Though it technically isn't a subscription, given that they have a thriving community of Sketch files you can download and use, not having the latest version is almost certainly going to slow you down. It's a really interesting model that unfortunately isn't possible under Apple.

    Thanks. I'll check it out.

    Regarding Affinity, I only go by appearances, and I haven't made a close study of it. Adobe went to subscriptions, and many people complained bitterly, many refusing to subscribe. I don't know the numbers. Then Serif comes out with Affinity Photo, and seemingly everyone hyping and promoting it as a Photoshop non-subscription alternative. AP is designed after PS, and now we have Designer as an alternative to Illustrator, and Publisher coming to provide a suite to rival an Adobe package.

    I heard Affinity has sold over a million and growing. Where would these apps be if Adobe hadn't gone subscription? My guess is that many more Adobe users would have remained with the comfort, familiarity, and reliability of what they knew, and assuming Affinity as we know it was still a viable project, it would have had a much tougher time getting attention. Adobe must have known they would lose some number of customers, especially non-pros, and with that knowledge made what they thought was the best business decision. I'm sure Affinity attracts users who never even used Adobe products, but it appears the apps also helped fill the demand Adobe left behind.

  • @Dawdles said:

    @lovadamusic said:

    @Dawdles said:

    @lovadamusic said:

    @Dawdles said:

    @lovadamusic said:

    @Dawdles said:

    @lovadamusic said:

    @baldajan said:

    @Dawdles said:
    @baldajan
    “IMO, every app's eventual goal should be to go subscription. As a consumer - it does suck, but as it becomes more normalized, we'll see more apps do it, and less complaints.”

    Are you aware that you’re saying things like this out loud? From a human and customer angle its quite gross and depressing :( What you’re saying in that quote is ‘it’s a bum direction for users but they’re dumb and will soon forget life before subscriptions’... I know you’re in business but maybe you shouldn’t have these kind of discussions directly with customers and save them for the boardroom? Clearly neither side has the other’s best interest as priority so this thread was always doomed in that respect...

    If you wanna go subscription with Medley just do it, put your money where you’re mouth is, but don’t expect people to be glad about another app trying to make subscription the norm. TBH I never heard of your app til this thread, which from my POV would make it seem like a very risky strategy, but maybe it’ll work out for you...

    Charging for an app or IAP is also a "bum direction for users". Increasing prices (to even match inflation), or rolling out a new IAP that isn't part of an old IAP is also a "bum direction for users". Releasing a major version that costs the same for all users is also a "bum direction for users". Call me out of touch, but I don't understand why my statement is "gross", but is in fact reality. But to clarify, I've never called users dumb, but generally, users are adverse to change.

    I still remember the days when Facebook would announce a new UI change and users would be up in arms against it. Then they'd get use to it.

    The move towards subscriptions by apps, as we see more apps move in this direction, is playing out in the same way when paid apps included IAPs, and when free apps included IAPs. Not sure if you remember, but when IAPs were introduced, they were for paid apps only. A 'free app is free' - Steve Jobs declared when he announced IAPs.

    People first thought, "I don't want to pay more for an app I already paid for" - that's actually valid and I don't think it succeed much (I could be wrong). Then Apple reversed that decision a year or so later, and free apps got IAPs too. And the community was up in arms. It's deceptive. It's bad. A free app is no longer free! As the dust settled, we've seen new business models and apps come out and a user base that embraces free apps with IAPs. We've also seen great executions of free with IAPs, that I don't believe we've seen much with subscriptions.

    Medly doesn't offer subscriptions - IAPs have been fairly successful thus far for us, though limiting in their design. A simple Apple limiting example is we can't localize the price, to bring it down to better match the cost of living in a region (we can with subscriptions). Another failure of IAPs is, as we build our content library, it makes zero financial sense for us to spend time adding new loops and content for our legacy packs, unless we offer update pricing, which makes everything either more expensive and/or more confusing. We also can't mix packs to create better sample songs for users since we can't assume they own X pack.

    My replies to this post wasn't because "Medly is moving towards subscriptions, please like us" - I've refrained from using our app name and being specific about it. I got involved because there are serious misconceptions being spread around that I felt needed to be addressed - especially from a very opinionated developer...

    Thanks. It's interesting to hear from an actual iOS developer. You've provided much information and some perspective we don't often see here. We know many users don't like the idea of subscriptions, especially on iOS, and see the idea as a dire threat.

    I think the problem on this platform for smaller developers capable of providing significant products, who want decent pay for their work, is that this is just not a good enough market. The iOS music-making market basically has what it wants -- loads of super inexpensive apps, and with free updates, that continue to feed the desire for something new. At least up to now, enough devs are willing to work in this environment, many doing it just because they like making apps.

    We hear lots of complaints -- Apple does this or doesn't do that, apps aren't stable and reliable enough, apps aren't as feature rich as desktop, and why is this great desktop app not offered on iOS? and apps get abandoned, etc..., but it's just talk. The iOS market doesn't want to support this level of product. It's why they scream bloody murder about even the idea of an app asking for a subscription. What if I can't buy or have every app I see? A developer daring to try the subscription model is the devil. Every bogus rationale is trotted out to 'splain why subscriptions are stupid or illegitimate.

    Many in professional or higher end markets are willing to pay a subscription for something if they need/want it bad enough. Like we'll pay large amounts of money for a really great product. Low cost subscriptions should be attractive to some more casual users if the desire for the app is strong. So despite tremendous competition from developers providing inexpensive non-subscription apps, and even free ones, no reason other developers shouldn't strive for financial success. Make it and they will come. That's the basic engine that drives progress. iOS doesn't appear to be ready for that. It still wants tons of everything for cheap, and taken to an extreme, subscriptions would be a serious threat to that if it became the standard.

    No one doesn’t want devs to be successful. Just do it via incredible, unique apps with perfect workflows for touchscreen that (at launch) can truly be said to be as high quality and refined as the apps on other platforms that charge bigger bucks. Make incredible apps and Charge like £30-£50+ for them and feature updates via IAP. Not via pricing models that make a mess of people’s finances and decision making. And fwiw id be just as opposed to the suggestion of all desktop apps going subscription. It has nothing to do with platform or people’s reluctance to throw money at ios in general.

    Half the iOS devs seem to be super small teams or one man shows. What if they get sick? Or they get obsessed with new products? It’s not like big companies where other parts of the staff can take over and devote time to the app that’s being subscribed to. The whole thing just feels super flaky and a Hail Mary money grab...maybe a few apps where it could be a feasible deal for customers, fully featured, regularly updated industry standard daws mainly, but outside of that I’m just not seeing the benefit...

    I don't see anyone here asking that anyone be forced to subscribe to anything. If an app doesn't cut it for you as is, or you don't trust the dev, steer clear.

    Generally speaking, if I really liked an iOS app, I wouldn't be averse to paying a subscription, assuming it was a reasonable amount for my situation. I would pay because I like the app as is, not so much because of future plans. If the app doesn't continue to satisfy, I just save my work in a universal format and stop subscribing. I don't see it as a higher risk than buying outright.

    The discussion here is about the subscription model in general, and I see no good reason to simply condemn it out of hand. If a dev creates a great app because the subscription model is attractive to them, it's good news for everyone willing to buy in.

    @baldajan said ““IMO, every app's eventual goal should be to go subscription”.... That scenario would basically = being forced in to subscriptions, at least if you want to use anything you don’t already have..

    That's kind of like saying every app's goal is to be good enough to attract users willing to support it with their wallets. If a dev believes only the subscription model can accomplish that, then the opinion above follows. Why shouldn't they be free to believe that and pursue that model? The market will decide if that's the only viable model. Nobody is forced to do anything.

    You’re not making sense. If all apps go sub then there’s no other option. That = forced. I’m not saying they all will. Just saying they all shouldn’t.

    I can't help it if I don't make sense to you. :) The market will decide if the subscription model is the only model that works for all developers. Other than baseless paranoia, I have no idea why someone would believe that's going to happen but, if it did, then that's how the free market works. If you don't want to support the only way producers think they can make money, then you can CHOOSE not to buy.

    If enough people choose not to subscribe to apps, other producers will look to that market as an alternative. Look at what Affinity is doing to capture the market Adobe left behind. Like right now, iOS music-making devs are apparently struggling, but they have a CHOICE to produce for iOS or not. No one is forced to do anything. You don't like the options, find another way. But considering how much is available today for free or almost nothing, there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that these kinds of devs are going to all start charging subscriptions. There almost certainly will always be other options to subscriptions, but maybe at some point iOS musicians won't have the upper hand and get everything they want. It can be a tough life. :)

    It was @baldajan that suggested the whole app market should aim to be going subscription, it was him that suggested that should be the goal and was a conceivable reality, not me.... I just responsed saying that that would suck for customers and then foolishly went on to explain potentially why ;) Until he suggested that, we were just talking about some individual apps going sub IIRC, not the whole market ;) I think people somehow ignored the flow of posts and how each persons post lead to the next, so in the end everyone was kind of talking/arguing to themselves. Oh well ;)

    One developer offering an opinion is just that. Why attack the idea as a universal threat? Bram Bos is a major iOS developer for this market and, in this very thread, said he doesn't like and is not planning on going the subscription route. Did some people miss or ignore that? ;) Because it kind of suggests that, despite subscriptions being the way to go for some developers, it's not for everyone.

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