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What does "sampler" mean to you? Types of samplers?
I started to add this to the AudioLayer thread and decided it needs an discussion beyond any single App:
@Samu said:
For me a sampler is a creative tool
Help me understand the types of samplers/sampling to understand. Help me make and define some categories of "sampler" and give them great names:
- virtual instruments (often based on soundbanks like SF2, SFZ)
- hardware samplers like the Akai MPC's (audio sampler + sequencer)
- "recycle" define points in an audio sample and use them to allow "time stretching" so a tracks BPM can be changed without changing the key/pitch of the audio tracks (I'd guess #2 does this and Propellerheads "Recycle" is different and maybe REX files come in here?).
- audio loop processing which grabs segments (stems?) and links them to PAD activations (or distinct MIDI note events?)
Are there other "sample" based hardware/Apps?
(My ignorance includes Terms that are strange to me: Parameters, reversing, warp'ing, stems)
If a short list of types can be created then specific Apps could be dropped into those "buckets" so a new App could be categorized and we'd know if it's something we should look for.
Comments
I’m still trying to figure out what the hell happened to ‘producer’ or ‘DJ’...
I think they moved to the Fashion business where profit margins are insane and labor costs can be exported to Asia.
Ahhh thanks... (trips over rake, stumbles into ditch)
The typical rack mounted hardware sampler was a different beast to the MPC type and has since grown into software similar to what we have with AudioLayer. Most of these types of software samplers and hardware are not as popular as they once were due to people mostly not having the time and patience to sample multi layered sounds. People now mostly buy pre done library sound sets.
Although AudioLayer lacks some features found on the best software / hardware samplers, for its price and being AU, it pretty much has no competition as yet! In some ways I prefer the BM3 sampler, but being attached to BM3 limits its use. So well done for Virsyn for filling a much needed gap in the iOS market.
An example of "sampling synth":
Yamaha SY85 is a synth with sounds are based on samples, which can be layered and modified to create new sounds distinct from FM synths.
Yamaha SY85 vs Akai MPC?
I think it might just be designed to fill another category and not be intended as a "synth" but a "sample player".
I hope I don't have to buy BM3 just to figure out what it does.
The forum kept telling me it's a DAW but they said that about Gadget too (with reservations).
What's in the "BM3 Sampler" and can it be given a "Name" as a sampling type?
In short: A Sampler is a tool to pick a fragment from a stored medium.
In the computer age: Pick out a fragment from stored data that was converted from analog to digital (AD-conversion)
In the analog age: A mellotron
For me a ’Sampler’(software or hardware) is a tool to Record, Edit & Replay sounds in order to create something new.
The more ’tools’ there are to mangle, edit and modify the samples the better
Most sample based virtual instruments fall under the sample player category ie. they are no ’Samplers’ per definition but ’Sample Players’. Recycle/REX is just an alternate way of playing back a sample (quite similar to playing back a sample using sample offset command in trackers to trigger the sample at different positions while controlling other playback parameters).
Sequencers, Loopers and other sound-triggerers (pads & keyboards etc.) are just different ways to play back the samples.
Casio SK-1
"I'm gonna say dirty words into it!"
Using samples gives you a head start in sound design where you already have an approximate sound that might need a bit of tweaking compared to designing a sound from scratch when not using a sample.
Amiga with GSS-8 and ProTracker 2.3D
I can add to that: A sampler produces sound that holds the characteristic of the original stored sound by taking out a "sample" of it. A synthesiser produces sound from mathematical produced waveforms and noise.
A good hybrid between the two is wavetable synthesis like the PPG Wave, where a single cycle of a recorded sound functions as a waveform (oscillator)
Soundforge
Audio Layer, Gadget Vancouver, and BM3’s sampler can do this too by looping the sample - with a single cycle or any portion of the sample.
If we take PPG WaveGenerator as an example it goes beyond just playing a single cycle waves. It bears some resemblance to Korg Wavestation that uses sequenced preset waveforms/samples to do it’s thing.
Currently Gadgets Vancouver is the only Sample Player on iOS that offers automation of sample start and loop position and loop lenght but is quite limited in other ways...
You are right. As long as you can layer the samples. My knowledge of wavetable synthesis is not that good to say if there's difference between what you mentioned and wavetable synthesis. There are people here with far more knowledge
I remember when i was so excited about protractor, that i build my own AD converter for the Amiga. The first artist i ripped samples from was Art of Noise, and even they sampled a whole bunch of stuff with the Fairlight, haha.
Doesn’t the Elastic Drums sample player?
PS... freaking love this sample player, need to use it more.
"looping the sample" is another concept that has "micro" and "macro" use cases.
Micro Looping: take a segment of the sample and loop it until the note is released to allow short samples to act like sustainable notes beyond their recorded length. Micro Looping can create a lot of additional artifacts which you might not want.
Getting good loop start/end points is essential to hide the technique.
Macro Looping: take a 4 bar sample of some drums at 120 BMP and Loop until the software says "stop".
What great features does BM3 have? @dawdles loves it. (Trying to pull him into the thread).
Someone should define:
parameter altering
round robin
random
one-shot
time stretching
stems
mangle, edit, modify (examples like "reverse", bitcrushing, up-sample)
and any other jargon that might not be common to all here.
@thesoundtestroom should create a video series that covers this whole area so someone new to the world of IOS can understand the possibilities and have the concepts down. That would make a great Patreon extra... videos in the Newbie series.
Then you have elastic audio (variphrase) hardware sampler or more or less the same on Acid/Ableton.
Keep the use cases coming!
Defining terms related to "sampling":
parameter altering
round robin:
Round-robin is simply a way to let sample developers play back a different sampled version of the same sound each time you hit the same key, so that just like most acoustic instruments each note sounds slightly different for more realism.
This feature becomes particularly important with drum libraries to avoid the 'machine gun' effect of rapidly repeating the same (for instance) snare drum sound.
By having two, four or eight slightly different snare samples, played back in sequence, you avoid such artificial-sounding effects, since if you keep hitting the same key it will play back (for instance):
Sample 1, Sample 2, Sample 3, Sample 4, Sample 1, Sample 2...
I first came across this feature when reviewing Tascam's Gigastudio, but it's also available on other softsamplers including NI's Kontakt.
random
see "Round Robin" and pick a sample, any sample.
one-shot
samples without any looping: drum sounds (kick, snare, toms and so forth), orchestra hits, or even short musical phrases that can be triggered via a MIDI controller
time stretching
Most musical tones are based upon repeated "waves". A 4/4 loop of 4 bars of a guitar lick in E at 120 BMP lasts 8 seconds.
If you change the BPM to 150 then that guitar lick should last
10 seconds but the guitar should stay in the Key of E. The pitch can't change. A Sampler that can "time stretch" just adds in more "waves" of to expand the length of those tones out by an extra 25% in this example.
stems
Ableton and NI use the term and I think mean different things.
Still researching this one...
mangle, edit, modify (examples like "reverse", bitcrushing, up-sample)
still digging...
Elastic Drums, although it has a sample engine, is primarily a drum synthesizer, as most of the engines are NOT sample players... In fact, I am hoping that he adds more types of sample engines to the App in the future. I love me some elastic as well!!
I divide samplers up in these categories: keyboard style Sampler (AudioLayer), MPC sampler (has drum pads), Loop sampler (ableton, loopy), Granular sampler (idensity, quanta etc), Rompler (OG midi gear), Loop Pedal style sampler (Samplr, Line6 pedals)... There are probably more I'm forgetting.
IMO currently the biggest missing sampler in iOS is a grid style looper like Ableton that you can easily record into, time stretch etc. BM3 and similar are probably closest. Cheers.
Now we are getting somewhere. I'm going to re-label them:
MIDI Sample Player - AudioLayer
Sampler - MPC PAD-based HW
Looper (Sampler) - Loopy, Ableton
ROM-pler - Keyboard-based Workstation HW
Looper HW - Line6, Boss LoopStation, Ditto
Grid Looper - Ableton
Slice Sampler - ReSlice, Egoist, Samplist
'Glitch' Sampler - Sector, GlitchBreaks
State-of-the-Art Sampler - BM3 leading with new features
I was going to mention that: Slice sampler... Like Egoist and Reslice and Samplist.
Another Category: 'Glitch' samplers like Sector and GlitchBreaks
Here are all the sampling apps I have: (some might not really count...)
Deadalus, AudioLayer, Sector, LooperSonic, LoopyHD, Egoist, LP-5, Figure, RemixLive, BlocsWave, GlitchBreaks, DiffDrummer, BeatHawk, Vatanator, FunkBox, Beatwave, Impaktor, Patterning1+2, Chordion, Samplr, iMaschine, BeatMaker, LaunchPad, Concentric.
Thank you for the detailed response. I'm getting the clue that BM3 builds upon all the history of sampling and extends it forward with new techniques. It looks like Intua's only product and in developement since 2007.
I see they have a Forum... I'm going to find some music that demo's the product to better understand how these features sound. There's a pretty good possibility I won't be able to connect sounds to features but I gotta start somewhere to catch up. I also found some downloadable samples in their forum I can use to learn to create Instruments with AudioLayer.
Does this work for most of us:
Sampler Types:
Thanks. I'll check that out.
Especially interesting at about minute 11 when he talks about just using one single sample and how the hardware has an OSC per voice which has a sample rate converter and so sounds amazing across the whole range with just one sampled note.
And watch the whole video where you hear that these old samplers even add more uummpf and gritty sound to the low end.
I mean i‘m sure you can do this with software emulations as well but it‘s an example how somtimes indeed a single sample is even better!