Auto save, please kill this concept

MobileMusic

@MobileMusic said:

@syrupcore said:
Persistent Undo/Redo (across app closures, device crashes, etc) that covered any possible change in the app would work for me in most situations. Otherwise, it's not quite the ticket (again, 'for me'). And not all apps with Undo allow for undoing everything. Like how some will revert sequence changes but not sound changes or settings changes, etc.

Cubasis has 200 levels of undo/redo history and they persist across app relaunches - we can undo/redo even after we close/reopen the project/app. However, the most annoying thing about autosave in GB and Cubasis is - I open a project and - without making any changes - switch to another project and it autosaves the project changing its modified date / moving the file all the way to the top. Because of this, I tend not to open my old projects - even when I need to. In GB, we can move each project into its own subfolder and keep the subfolder positions in the file list intact because even if we open a project inside a subfolder and not make any changes, it autosaves the project within the subfolder but the folder date remains the same retaining its position and does not move to the top. In Auria (as per its dev), it autosaves the project as we keep touching the screen (it may be the same autosave behavior in GB and Cubasis too). Devs - please introduce some sanity into apps. There is no need to reinvent something that already works gracefully for decades but only make it worse. Unless your app is too buggy, unreliable and prone to crashing frequently, there is NO reason to autosave. @Lars - I haven't seen Cubasis crash in years and autosave is not necessary in it - a more optimal saving process is desired such as saving to a temp project as we keep working and ability to Save (overwrite), Save As, delete autosaved files, etc.

@Samu said:
When done 'properly' Auto-Save is cool but apps implementing auto-save should include tools to do proper 'clean up'. Cubasis is a prime example that leaves a load of auto-save & undo-crap behind and the only way to delete those is to trash the app and re-install it...

And well, iOS should include tools for the end-user to clean app caches as the way iOS 'deletes files' when it 'feels like it' sucks big time and there is no clue as to 'when' it does it and that can in some cases cause 'freezes' and other 'hick-ups' when the devices is starting to get low on storage...

@Lars, I've never used undo/redo history of more than 20 levels in Cubasis and so, storing 200 levels of history is a waste of resources for most users. Please implement a Setting to configure the number of undo/redo history levels to store and default it to 20. That should shrink the project file sizes drastically and no need to clean up anything. Individual users could then configure the undo/redo history depth anywhere from 10-200 levels under Setup.

What do you think?

[Deleted User]

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MobileMusic

@Max23 said:

@MobileMusic said:

@MobileMusic said:

@syrupcore said:
Persistent Undo/Redo (across app closures, device crashes, etc) that covered any possible change in the app would work for me in most situations. Otherwise, it's not quite the ticket (again, 'for me'). And not all apps with Undo allow for undoing everything. Like how some will revert sequence changes but not sound changes or settings changes, etc.

Cubasis has 200 levels of undo/redo history and they persist across app relaunches - we can undo/redo even after we close/reopen the project/app. However, the most annoying thing about autosave in GB and Cubasis is - I open a project and - without making any changes - switch to another project and it autosaves the project changing its modified date / moving the file all the way to the top. Because of this, I tend not to open my old projects - even when I need to. In GB, we can move each project into its own subfolder and keep the subfolder positions in the file list intact because even if we open a project inside a subfolder and not make any changes, it autosaves the project within the subfolder but the folder date remains the same retaining its position and does not move to the top. In Auria (as per its dev), it autosaves the project as we keep touching the screen (it may be the same autosave behavior in GB and Cubasis too). Devs - please introduce some sanity into apps. There is no need to reinvent something that already works gracefully for decades but only make it worse. Unless your app is too buggy, unreliable and prone to crashing frequently, there is NO reason to autosave. @Lars - I haven't seen Cubasis crash in years and autosave is not necessary in it - a more optimal saving process is desired such as saving to a temp project as we keep working and ability to Save (overwrite), Save As, delete autosaved files, etc.

@Samu said:
When done 'properly' Auto-Save is cool but apps implementing auto-save should include tools to do proper 'clean up'. Cubasis is a prime example that leaves a load of auto-save & undo-crap behind and the only way to delete those is to trash the app and re-install it...

And well, iOS should include tools for the end-user to clean app caches as the way iOS 'deletes files' when it 'feels like it' sucks big time and there is no clue as to 'when' it does it and that can in some cases cause 'freezes' and other 'hick-ups' when the devices is starting to get low on storage...

@Lars, I've never used undo/redo history of more than 20 levels in Cubasis and so, storing 200 levels of history is a waste of resources for most users. Please implement a Setting to configure the number of undo/redo history levels to store and default it to 20. That should shrink the project file sizes drastically and no need to clean up anything. Individual users could then configure the undo/redo history depth anywhere from 10-200 levels under Setup.

What do you think?

usually I never need more than 20 levels of undo, I just want to go back to the big steps, like ok I added or deleted tracks here, or changed notes or sounds there, or I started over processing it here
but as undo saves every little crap you do (wiggled panning a little here and there or something) there is no way for the program to decide what those "big steps" were as its very individual what you see as big steps depending on the project ...

clear undo history isnt a bad idea

@Lars, Strangely, the Mute, Solo, change track Colors and I guess a few others (changes on the master track, etc) are not part of undo/redo history in Cubasis. Please include them in undo/redo history.

Sure, long-tap (tap and hold) on Undo/Redo buttons to pop-down a menu of undo/redo history items (see: NS1) so we could tap on an item and directly jump/leap to a point in the history (not necessarily the previous/next of undo/redo) so we don't have to repeatedly tap undo/redo to go that level. Also, this would be very helpful to see which step we are undoing/redoing from item names in the pop-down menu as the current display of message while doing quickly disappears and not able to read which step it was doing.

With 20 default levels of undo/redo history set in Settings, there is no need of an option to clear the history for most users - unless they increase the levels at their own risk of increasing the file sizes. However, Clear History option may be offered so users could tap it before backing up their stabilized project for optimal file sizes clear of any superficial history stuff.

reasOne

If it's possible, being able to toggle auto save on and off would be ideal, with undo options

reasOne

Also my dew should take advantage of this and create, undew 🙌

wim

@reasOne said:

@j_liljedahl said:
I hate it when opening a host and it automatically loads all IAA apps etc it had in the last project. It's an easy way to get IAA zombies! That's why I have a "Reload last session" button in AUM that users has to press manually!

AUM is flawless imo nothing about it is bad.... Only thing I wish was that it could record out to loopy, cubasis.. Etc without going thru ab3

But, it does to Cubasis and other IAA hosts. Just not Loopy as Loopy doesn’t host IAA apps.

reasOne

@wim said:

@reasOne said:

@j_liljedahl said:
I hate it when opening a host and it automatically loads all IAA apps etc it had in the last project. It's an easy way to get IAA zombies! That's why I have a "Reload last session" button in AUM that users has to press manually!

AUM is flawless imo nothing about it is bad.... Only thing I wish was that it could record out to loopy, cubasis.. Etc without going thru ab3

But, it does to Cubasis and other IAA hosts. Just not Loopy as Loopy doesn’t host IAA apps.

Oh no shit hmmmm never got that to work but imma try it now !

j_liljedahl

@reasOne said:

@j_liljedahl said:
I hate it when opening a host and it automatically loads all IAA apps etc it had in the last project. It's an easy way to get IAA zombies! That's why I have a "Reload last session" button in AUM that users has to press manually!

AUM is flawless imo nothing about it is bad.... Only thing I wish was that it could record out to loopy, cubasis.. Etc without going thru ab3

It can record to Cubasis, Auria, and other hosts without AB3. Loopy can only receive audio via AB3, that's not up to me.

[Deleted User]

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reasOne

@j_liljedahl said:

@reasOne said:

@j_liljedahl said:
I hate it when opening a host and it automatically loads all IAA apps etc it had in the last project. It's an easy way to get IAA zombies! That's why I have a "Reload last session" button in AUM that users has to press manually!

AUM is flawless imo nothing about it is bad.... Only thing I wish was that it could record out to loopy, cubasis.. Etc without going thru ab3

It can record to Cubasis, Auria, and other hosts without AB3. Loopy can only receive audio via AB3, that's not up to me.

sweet

wim

@tja said:
@wim, very interesting, I never used AUM in this way.

You would end up with the Audio in Cubasis, for arranging and so on.

What can AUM do in regards to Synth and Effects what could not also directly be done in Cubasis?

Not a lot really now that Auria and Cubasis support AUv3 midi plugins. It could be used to work around Cubasis lack of busses, limited insert effects, and for AUv3 midi apps like Convolver which need to receive audio and then send midi.

The person who asked though was interested because AUM had been used to build up jams that they then wanted to capture in Loopy. For some reason I can’t understand they didn’t want to involve AB3, so we’re thinking of alternatives, but didn’t realize the IAA output was possible.

reasOne

@wim said:

@tja said:
@wim, very interesting, I never used AUM in this way.

You would end up with the Audio in Cubasis, for arranging and so on.

What can AUM do in regards to Synth and Effects what could not also directly be done in Cubasis?

Not a lot really now that Auria and Cubasis support AUv3 midi plugins. It could be used to work around Cubasis lack of busses, limited insert effects, and for AUv3 midi apps like Convolver which need to receive audio and then send midi.

The person who asked though was interested because AUM had been used to build up jams that they then wanted to capture in Loopy. For some reason I can’t understand they didn’t want to involve AB3, so we’re thinking of alternatives, but didn’t realize the IAA output was possible.

Yooo I don't want to always involve Ab3 due to CPU usage that was all but I love Ab3... And ya now knowing it's iaa output, the helps a lot

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The user and all related content has been deleted.

lovadamusic

@tja said:
@wim, very interesting, I never used AUM in this way.

You would end up with the Audio in Cubasis, for arranging and so on.

What can AUM do in regards to Synth and Effects what could not also directly be done in Cubasis?

AUM is a better mixer, especially for live, and the UI is focused on that. Like one may want to use Xequence as a MIDI sequencer rather than the one implemented in available DAWs. Cubasis is a very nice compact DAW, but for building up live mixes to create audio clips, AUM shines.

wim

@reasOne said:

@wim said:

@tja said:
@wim, very interesting, I never used AUM in this way.

You would end up with the Audio in Cubasis, for arranging and so on.

What can AUM do in regards to Synth and Effects what could not also directly be done in Cubasis?

Not a lot really now that Auria and Cubasis support AUv3 midi plugins. It could be used to work around Cubasis lack of busses, limited insert effects, and for AUv3 midi apps like Convolver which need to receive audio and then send midi.

The person who asked though was interested because AUM had been used to build up jams that they then wanted to capture in Loopy. For some reason I can’t understand they didn’t want to involve AB3, so we’re thinking of alternatives, but didn’t realize the IAA output was possible.

Yooo I don't want to always involve Ab3 due to CPU usage that was all but I love Ab3... And ya now knowing it's iaa output, the helps a lot

And I still say it really shouldn’t be adding significant CPU overhead. Have you actually observed this in practice? I haven’t, and I’m only on an iPad Air 2.

Ymmv of course.

wim

@wim said:

@reasOne said:

@wim said:

@tja said:
@wim, very interesting, I never used AUM in this way.

You would end up with the Audio in Cubasis, for arranging and so on.

What can AUM do in regards to Synth and Effects what could not also directly be done in Cubasis?

Not a lot really now that Auria and Cubasis support AUv3 midi plugins. It could be used to work around Cubasis lack of busses, limited insert effects, and for AUv3 midi apps like Convolver which need to receive audio and then send midi.

The person who asked though was interested because AUM had been used to build up jams that they then wanted to capture in Loopy. For some reason I can’t understand they didn’t want to involve AB3, so we’re thinking of alternatives, but didn’t realize the IAA output was possible.

Yooo I don't want to always involve Ab3 due to CPU usage that was all but I love Ab3... And ya now knowing it's iaa output, the helps a lot

And I still say it really shouldn’t be adding significant CPU overhead. Have you actually observed this in practice? I haven’t, and I’m only on an iPad Air 2.

Ymmv of course.

BTW, Quantiloop, Group the Loop, and Looperverse are some of good loopers that should work with IAA out from AUM. I’ll try to make some time to test this out.

wim

Confirmed. You can host AUM inside Quantiloop Pro, Group the Loop, and LooperVerse. Also confirmed no noticeable CPU penalty for adding AB3 plus Loopy. In fact, AUM’s measurement went down when loaded into AB3 with Loopy.

(Sorry for the OT distraction.)

j_liljedahl

@wim said:
Confirmed. You can host AUM inside Quantiloop Pro, Group the Loop, and LooperVerse. Also confirmed no noticeable CPU penalty for adding AB3 plus Loopy. In fact, AUM’s measurement went down when loaded into AB3 with Loopy.

Side note: that's probably because of the CPU frequency scaling. As the CPU demand goes up, the CPU speeds up to better handle the demands. Or rather the other way around: when there are low CPU demand, the CPU speeds down to save energy. This means the DSP% in AUM and other apps can not reliably be used for any kind of benchmarking, it just shows how much of the available DSP time is used in the current CPU speed.