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Crazed rant due to iOS music making apps

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Comments

  • AndyPlanktonAndyPlankton

    @AudioGus said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    Thanks, @kinkujin. Actually, I use very few effects. Ultramaximizer in Cubasis, FAc chorus, internal reverb and eq in Cubasis. Compression once in a while, tho I think Ultramax is compressing for me. Do you think Grand Finale might help?

    Not to just throw an app at it, but do you have ProQ2? Amazing EQ, super Cubasis friendly now. I imagine that reducing masking between tracks is the key.

    Horns and brass are very powerful sounds and can easily drown out other stuff, the tendency is to try and boost the volume of the other sounds to make up for it and this is where the mush usually comes from. Instead of boosting the other sounds you should try and remove frequencies (using EQ) from the brass/horns to make space for the other sounds, the theory is simple, the practice is more difficult as it is often a balancing act with most sounds all wanting to be in the same frequency ranges.
    There are a ton of vids on YouTube (both good and bad) about how to use EQ properly.
    Try this google search to get you going ;) recording revolution using EQ

    ProQ2 is definitely the way to go for EQ when trying to separate and isolate sounds, definitely worth the price.

    As @wim says, do not try adding more apps onto the overall mix until you are happy with the mix itself, it will only make things worse.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    I love this thread...

    https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    Thanks, @kinkujin. Actually, I use very few effects. Ultramaximizer in Cubasis, FAc chorus, internal reverb and eq in Cubasis. Compression once in a while, tho I think Ultramax is compressing for me. Do you think Grand Finale might help?

    Not to just throw an app at it, but do you have ProQ2? Amazing EQ, super Cubasis friendly now. I imagine that reducing masking between tracks is the key.

    Horns and brass are very powerful sounds and can easily drown out other stuff, the tendency is to try and boost the volume of the other sounds to make up for it and this is where the mush usually comes from. Instead of boosting the other sounds you should try and remove frequencies (using EQ) from the brass/horns to make space for the other sounds, the theory is simple, the practice is more difficult as it is often a balancing act with most sounds all wanting to be in the same frequency ranges.
    There are a ton of vids on YouTube (both good and bad) about how to use EQ properly.
    Try this google search to get you going ;) recording revolution using EQ

    ProQ2 is definitely the way to go for EQ when trying to separate and isolate sounds, definitely worth the price.

    As @wim says, do not try adding more apps onto the overall mix until you are happy with the mix itself, it will only make things worse.

    Great feedback!

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited September 2018

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    Thanks, @kinkujin. Actually, I use very few effects. Ultramaximizer in Cubasis, FAc chorus, internal reverb and eq in Cubasis. Compression once in a while, tho I think Ultramax is compressing for me. Do you think Grand Finale might help?

    Not to just throw an app at it, but do you have ProQ2? Amazing EQ, super Cubasis friendly now. I imagine that reducing masking between tracks is the key.

    Horns and brass are very powerful sounds and can easily drown out other stuff, the tendency is to try and boost the volume of the other sounds to make up for it and this is where the mush usually comes from. Instead of boosting the other sounds you should try and remove frequencies (using EQ) from the brass/horns to make space for the other sounds, the theory is simple, the practice is more difficult as it is often a balancing act with most sounds all wanting to be in the same frequency ranges.
    There are a ton of vids on YouTube (both good and bad) about how to use EQ properly.
    Try this google search to get you going ;) recording revolution using EQ

    ProQ2 is definitely the way to go for EQ when trying to separate and isolate sounds, definitely worth the price.

    As @wim says, do not try adding more apps onto the overall mix until you are happy with the mix itself, it will only make things worse.

    One of the best metaphors I heard regarding mixing (and I think it came from the Reaper forum thread) is that mixing is like atmospheric perspective in a painting or what you see when you take a photo. In a good mix involving several instruments in a space not everything is represented in full fidelity. In the same way that a mossy stump in the forground may look crisp and clear with all the bumpy green bits super sharp, the leaves on the trees in the background will likely often apearer blurrier and flatter with reduced shadow and highlights. For example, the sharp pluck of a string may be present on an instrument in the forground but if you want to have your piano front and center you may need to reduce the string pluck in the mix to make room in the forground and it may blur out like the leaves on the trees, still a component, just not in complete focus. In film you can have a ‘rack focus’ where you can be focused on a forground element and then shift focus to the background, with the forground then blurring, This sort of thing in mixing could be seen as automation where you dynamicly adjust mixing parameters over time. It is probably best to initialy work with more static mixes, but you get the idea.

  • AndyPlanktonAndyPlankton

    @AudioGus said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    Thanks, @kinkujin. Actually, I use very few effects. Ultramaximizer in Cubasis, FAc chorus, internal reverb and eq in Cubasis. Compression once in a while, tho I think Ultramax is compressing for me. Do you think Grand Finale might help?

    Not to just throw an app at it, but do you have ProQ2? Amazing EQ, super Cubasis friendly now. I imagine that reducing masking between tracks is the key.

    Horns and brass are very powerful sounds and can easily drown out other stuff, the tendency is to try and boost the volume of the other sounds to make up for it and this is where the mush usually comes from. Instead of boosting the other sounds you should try and remove frequencies (using EQ) from the brass/horns to make space for the other sounds, the theory is simple, the practice is more difficult as it is often a balancing act with most sounds all wanting to be in the same frequency ranges.
    There are a ton of vids on YouTube (both good and bad) about how to use EQ properly.
    Try this google search to get you going ;) recording revolution using EQ

    ProQ2 is definitely the way to go for EQ when trying to separate and isolate sounds, definitely worth the price.

    As @wim says, do not try adding more apps onto the overall mix until you are happy with the mix itself, it will only make things worse.

    One of the best metaphors I heard regarding mixing (and I think it came from the Reaper forum thread) is that mixing is like atmospheric perspective in a painting or what you see when you take a photo. In a good mix involving several instruments in a space not everything is represented in full fidelity. In the same way that a mossy stump in the forground may look crisp and clear with all the bumpy green bits super sharp, the leaves on the trees in the background will likely often apearer blurrier and flatter with reduced shadow and highlights. For example, the sharp pluck of a string may be present on an instrument in the forground but if you want to have your piano front and center you may need to reduce the string pluck in the mix to make room in the forground and it may blur out like the leaves on the trees, still a component, just not in complete focus. In film you can have a ‘rack focus’ where you can be focused on a forground element and then shift focus to the background, with the forground then blurring, This sort of thing in mixing could be seen as automation where you dynamicly adjust mixing parameters over time. It is probably best to initialy work with more static mixes, but you get the idea.

    That is a good way of describing the front to back placement. The blurring can be done in part with EQ to take away the sharp from the object itself, and then adding reverb would blur the outer edges. :)

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    S> @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    Thanks, @kinkujin. Actually, I use very few effects. Ultramaximizer in Cubasis, FAc chorus, internal reverb and eq in Cubasis. Compression once in a while, tho I think Ultramax is compressing for me. Do you think Grand Finale might help?

    Not to just throw an app at it, but do you have ProQ2? Amazing EQ, super Cubasis friendly now. I imagine that reducing masking between tracks is the key.

    Horns and brass are very powerful sounds and can easily drown out other stuff, the tendency is to try and boost the volume of the other sounds to make up for it and this is where the mush usually comes from. Instead of boosting the other sounds you should try and remove frequencies (using EQ) from the brass/horns to make space for the other sounds, the theory is simple, the practice is more difficult as it is often a balancing act with most sounds all wanting to be in the same frequency ranges.
    There are a ton of vids on YouTube (both good and bad) about how to use EQ properly.
    Try this google search to get you going ;) recording revolution using EQ

    ProQ2 is definitely the way to go for EQ when trying to separate and isolate sounds, definitely worth the price.

    As @wim says, do not try adding more apps onto the overall mix until you are happy with the mix itself, it will only make things worse.

    One of the best metaphors I heard regarding mixing (and I think it came from the Reaper forum thread) is that mixing is like atmospheric perspective in a painting or what you see when you take a photo. In a good mix involving several instruments in a space not everything is represented in full fidelity. In the same way that a mossy stump in the forground may look crisp and clear with all the bumpy green bits super sharp, the leaves on the trees in the background will likely often apearer blurrier and flatter with reduced shadow and highlights. For example, the sharp pluck of a string may be present on an instrument in the forground but if you want to have your piano front and center you may need to reduce the string pluck in the mix to make room in the forground and it may blur out like the leaves on the trees, still a component, just not in complete focus. In film you can have a ‘rack focus’ where you can be focused on a forground element and then shift focus to the background, with the forground then blurring, This sort of thing in mixing could be seen as automation where you dynamicly adjust mixing parameters over time. It is probably best to initialy work with more static mixes, but you get the idea.

    That is a good way of describing the front to back placement. The blurring can be done in part with EQ to take away the sharp from the object itself, and then adding reverb would blur the outer edges. :)

    Dubstep is HDR hehe

  • AndyPlanktonAndyPlankton

    @AudioGus said:
    S> @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    Thanks, @kinkujin. Actually, I use very few effects. Ultramaximizer in Cubasis, FAc chorus, internal reverb and eq in Cubasis. Compression once in a while, tho I think Ultramax is compressing for me. Do you think Grand Finale might help?

    Not to just throw an app at it, but do you have ProQ2? Amazing EQ, super Cubasis friendly now. I imagine that reducing masking between tracks is the key.

    Horns and brass are very powerful sounds and can easily drown out other stuff, the tendency is to try and boost the volume of the other sounds to make up for it and this is where the mush usually comes from. Instead of boosting the other sounds you should try and remove frequencies (using EQ) from the brass/horns to make space for the other sounds, the theory is simple, the practice is more difficult as it is often a balancing act with most sounds all wanting to be in the same frequency ranges.
    There are a ton of vids on YouTube (both good and bad) about how to use EQ properly.
    Try this google search to get you going ;) recording revolution using EQ

    ProQ2 is definitely the way to go for EQ when trying to separate and isolate sounds, definitely worth the price.

    As @wim says, do not try adding more apps onto the overall mix until you are happy with the mix itself, it will only make things worse.

    One of the best metaphors I heard regarding mixing (and I think it came from the Reaper forum thread) is that mixing is like atmospheric perspective in a painting or what you see when you take a photo. In a good mix involving several instruments in a space not everything is represented in full fidelity. In the same way that a mossy stump in the forground may look crisp and clear with all the bumpy green bits super sharp, the leaves on the trees in the background will likely often apearer blurrier and flatter with reduced shadow and highlights. For example, the sharp pluck of a string may be present on an instrument in the forground but if you want to have your piano front and center you may need to reduce the string pluck in the mix to make room in the forground and it may blur out like the leaves on the trees, still a component, just not in complete focus. In film you can have a ‘rack focus’ where you can be focused on a forground element and then shift focus to the background, with the forground then blurring, This sort of thing in mixing could be seen as automation where you dynamicly adjust mixing parameters over time. It is probably best to initialy work with more static mixes, but you get the idea.

    That is a good way of describing the front to back placement. The blurring can be done in part with EQ to take away the sharp from the object itself, and then adding reverb would blur the outer edges. :)

    Dubstep is HDR hehe

    hahaha

  • Slam_CutSlam_Cut
    edited September 2018

    @mindscaper said:
    I own almost all the decent apps but keep going back to gadget or GarageBand to actually make structured songs

    I can’t get anything done with those apps, as much as I want to. I finally got one completed track out of GB, but I struggled. For me it is just easier to use NS1, even with it’s limitations. I’m hoping to be able to get more use out of GB & Gadet by using MIDI in NS2. We’ll see.

  • alteredmoodsalteredmoods

    I'm making music with iOS fine for the most part. More irritating to me is, when I run into a problem and attempt to get help on a forum, and either get completely ignored (while whoever is supporting the app answers what appear to be easier questions) or scolded that it's somehow my fault and that I'll get put in my place for attempting to badmouth the app.

  • Slam_CutSlam_Cut

    I haven't noticed that so much. Granted, this is the internet so you will have to filter out a certain low-level noise no matter what, but I find most of the people on this forum to be more genuinely interested in helpful discussion. It could be that no one on the forum knows the answer to a given question. In fact there are so few apps that I can answer questions about I rarely post on this forum at all. It might just be a question of finding the right people to ask. Or contacting the developer directly. And of course that's assuming that you've exhausted the manual and YouTube tutorials. It ain't perfect, but iOS music production is convenient.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @alteredmoods, sorry to hear of your experience. That has not been mine, but I ask pretty simple questions. Do you post in Support and Feedback? I get better response in the appropriate category. Give it another go, maybe it was just a fluke for you.

  • wigglelightswigglelights

    @wim said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    @wim it is five am and I awoke thinking about eq! Would it be possible for you to post screen shots of hypothetical eq curves showing how piano, bass, strings and horns would coexist to their best advantage? This would help me and others a bunch as I have never seen actual examples of the above ( maybe post on a support thread as an eq tutorial?). Thanks so much.

    Honestly, I’m not sure that would be useful. Every mix is different. Think of the broad frequency range a piano part can occupy. How would one pick meaningful ranges?

    There are loads of YouTube videos covering these two concepts far better than I can.

    I’m going to +1 the EQ suggestions in your mix. In general I find it’s about taking away frequencies rather than boosting, so the “main” focal point of your mix stands alone. It can be tricky with piano as the focal point as it naturally covers such a wide range - but frequently the most crowded frequecy areas are in the lows and low mids.
    Compression is a whole nother can of worms, but IMHO, especially with “acoustic” tracks, should be lightly used.

    One channel I’ve learned a lot from is https://www.youtube.com/user/recordingrevolution. He does a lot of work with recording bands and it may make sense to you, as one thing that seems frequently important in various forms of beat/dance music is saturation, where acoustic music is often about preserving dynamic range. (Very broad view there, but hopefully that makes sense and offends no one)
    The folks from Fabfilter also have some fantastic videos on EQ and Compression.
    And don’t be put off that different plug ins are being used - the concepts are the same regardless.

  • alteredmoodsalteredmoods

    @LinearLineman said:
    @alteredmoods, sorry to hear of your experience. That has not been mine, but I ask pretty simple questions. Do you post in Support and Feedback? I get better response in the appropriate category. Give it another go, maybe it was just a fluke for you.

    This board is fine. I've had nothing but positive experiences here.

    The boards in question was the BM3 and Auria Pro boards. Basically, I'd reported a problem with BM3 corrupting session files and, because I mentioned I'd swiped up during one such incident, was dismissed as "closing the app wrong". After several attempts to explain and being lambasted for it, I gave up and left the board.

    Rim on the Auria forum just ignores you unless he has already reproduced or fixed the problem you report, it seems.

  • TurntablistTurntablist

    I have been reading the Beatmaker forum today to catch up with all the issues in the BM3 thread here.
    Nobody ever said you were closing the app wrong, they said you closed it before it had saved.
    You do realise that swipe closing any app while it is saving will corrupt the file ?

    A swipe to close the app is forcing the app to close, so it can't complete what it is trying to do, in your case saving, it really was your fault sadly.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Turntablist said:
    I have been reading the Beatmaker forum today to catch up with all the issues in the BM3 thread here.
    Nobody ever said you were closing the app wrong, they said you closed it before it had saved.
    You do realise that swipe closing any app while it is saving will corrupt the file ?

    A swipe to close the app is forcing the app to close, so it can't complete what it is trying to do, in your case saving, it really was your fault sadly.

    Eh? Is this directed at myself or someone else on this thread lol

  • TurntablistTurntablist

    AlteredMoods
    He expected an app to complete a save after he had forced closing it by swiping it off screen.
    Sorry, I thought I had quoted him.

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