Abandoning your DAW of choice for NS2?

Telstar5

@Approach said:
I’m not sure I understand the license concern with Stagelight. Been running it on phone + iPad since it came out. Same account and both devices have all the combined purchased sample/patch content. Are people actually not doing that because it’s against the rules?

Yeah, me also

greengrocer

@SevenSystems said:
@greengrocer: Interestingly, when I published my first app way back in 2013, bypassing the App Store or In-App Purchases was explicitly forbidden by Apple's rules. They seem to have loosened them then since. Also I feel that their app review is a bit too forgiving nowadays. Lots of really low-quality and/or buggy apps in the store. I guess it's since Tim Cook is at the helm of Apple and they just want to inflate the "Look how many apps we have" numbers

Agree, looks like everything is more and more about the numbers. Still it's strange that StageLight can bypass the Appstore with it's own alternative credit system.
Still their unique licensing model suggests that you can't put their iOS app on more than one device. I'm used to put my apps on all iOS devices I own (6 in total).

@mannix said:

@greengrocer said:
@eross @Samu @Fruitbat1919

But the issue about their licensing model that @greengrocer pointed is quite serious. Probably they do a check everytime you start up Stagelight and if there's already a version somewhere else running it won't work.

Yes it's probably the same trick Adobe and Proppelerhead do with their apps. Online checks when you open your app.

RajahP

Popped the ‘unlock’ for Stagelight..There are some comings, Ableton Link etc. But I think this is the one for me.. much to learn..

Peace..

Telstar5

@RajahP said:
Popped the ‘unlock’ for Stagelight..There are some comings, Ableton Link etc. But I think this is the one for me.. much to learn..

Peace..

Me too... I got the store pass... I think I might use both SL and ns2..

ecamburn

@Approach said:
I’m not sure I understand the license concern with Stagelight. Been running it on phone + iPad since it came out. Same account and both devices have all the combined purchased sample/patch content. Are people actually not doing that because it’s against the rules?

Ditto. Can I call you Bob? 🙂

ohwell

@sysexual said:
ive never been into ios daws, just using aum and exporting from there to laptop but i never got on with cubasis despite several attempts, never tried auria or stagelight and dont like the walled garden idea in gadget much. Nanostudio seems to check the festures that im after and so far i like the workflow. i also really appreciate Obsidian and Slate at the moment. i hope to get on with it enough to use it regularly. the gui is visually pleasing and keeps me interested which is something cubasis never did for me, petty thing i know but for me its real.

• 1

Very similar situation for me. Other big pro for me vs current options is the promise of a solid workflow on iPhone down the road. (iPad only track building environments are in direct competition with my macOS + bitwig time.) I’ll need NS2 to eventually incorporate the planned extra features, but Matt’s track record so far gives me every reason to think that will happen.

The one small let down ATM is the lack of AUfx automation. I’m sure it will be implemented eventually, but fingers crossed it will be sooner than later. I extensively use AUfx like instruments - “playing” their parameters - so a good workflow for non destructive tweaks to the parameter changes will be huge for me.

Still hugely impressed by NS2.

[Deleted User]

NS2 save system works really well. The three saves gives you decent options. I would like the option for it not to auto load the last project though, as I don’t like to see all those AU apps loading knowing I’m going to change projects in a second (I don’t think it’s possible to change this behaviour).

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Ive had a bit of a play with NS2 now and I’m really impressed.

One of the biggest disappointments for me is there there are no ‘scale lock’ options in the piano roll. That’s a shame, but hopefully that might be coming. Anyway, guess you can’t have everything (on release).

I’m mainly a Gadget on my iphone6S plus guy. Just can’t beat it for getting music made on the move.

So, although I don’t think NS2 will replace that for now, once the iPhone version comes out, you never know.

The really exciting things for me are:

• ease of use / UI
• stability
• Integration of AU instruments (you can record automations via the macro knobs - and assign these - which is just fantastic!)
• Automation overall
• Obsidian (love how it sounds and am getting my head around the programming)

So, I’m pleased I’ve spent £30 on it and will be exploring more on my iPad Air2. Then come the spring - we’ll see.

[Deleted User]

Sorry for the confusion. The line in question here was written for our desktop version (before we ever launched on any mobile or OS Store based platforms).

We need to update our agreement to reflect the policies of the iOS, Google, and Windows app stores. In short there's nothing to worry about here. You can install and use Stagelight on any device that you own, period. It's as simple as that.

If anyone has any specific questions, I can always be reached at [email protected]

@greengrocer said:
@eross @Samu @Fruitbat1919
This is what I posted in another thread yesterday about StageLight's licensing model. Probaly nobody reads them but it's interesting to do so. Especially when companies use independent credit systems:

The limit of iDevices is a point though. The Open Labs license agreement is clear:
"Device license. You may install one copy of the software on one hardware device for your internal business use or your own personal enjoyment. The software may only be used by one person at time, unless you have purchased licenses for additional users."
I own multiple iOS devices, as probably a lot of forum members, but I only may install it on one iOS device. This is for me unacceptable because I want, as with all my apps, use them on all my devices which I only can if I buy a license for every iOS device (6 in total btw). I also have the impression that Stagelight with it's credit and seperate registration bypasses Apples policy that you can have your apps installed on at least 10 iOS devices using the same Apple ID.
For me this was the reason to not purchase Stagelight. But I would like to hear what @OpenLabstechsupport @MatthewAtStagelight have to say about this. A lot of people using iOS have an iPhone and iPad which already means you have to purchase 2 licenses. So tricky business. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Monoboy

So far stagelight for me is the DAW of choice on iOS, it’s got that Ableton style clip arranger window which I love (and record to timeline as your live jamming between different clips!) - has a great drum sequencer, resizable GUI, able to choose scales on the piano roll, just would like wave/audio editing functions, and on the fly midi to audio clip conversion.

Korg Gadget is also one of the most enjoyable music making apps! Have made more songs on this then anything else, wish it was able to load in au3 synths/effects.

eross

agreed, and a little more control in the wave editing window would be great. such a great DAW for ios
midi to audio clip flattening would be awesome, > @Monoboy said:

So far stagelight for me is the DAW of choice on iOS, it’s got that Ableton style clip arranger window which I love (and record to timeline as your live jamming between different clips!) - has a great drum sequencer, resizable GUI, able to choose scales on the piano roll, just would like wave/audio editing functions, and on the fly midi to audio clip conversion.

Korg Gadget is also one of the most enjoyable music making apps! Have made more songs on this then anything else, wish it was able to load in au3 synths/effects.

Approach

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Ive had a bit of a play with NS2 now and I’m really impressed.

One of the biggest disappointments for me is there there are no ‘scale lock’ options in the piano roll. That’s a shame, but hopefully that might be coming. Anyway, guess you can’t have everything (on release).

Yes definitely need scale lock on the piano roll. I’m a terrible musician so I need all the help I can get to make the noise I’m compelled to produce. Wish I could Frankenstein BM3, SL and NS2 together.

[Deleted User]

FYI: We'll be working on better wave editing tools for Stagelight, very soon.

@eross said:
agreed, and a little more control in the wave editing window would be great. such a great DAW for ios
midi to audio clip flattening would be awesome, > @Monoboy said:

So far stagelight for me is the DAW of choice on iOS, it’s got that Ableton style clip arranger window which I love (and record to timeline as your live jamming between different clips!) - has a great drum sequencer, resizable GUI, able to choose scales on the piano roll, just would like wave/audio editing functions, and on the fly midi to audio clip conversion.

Korg Gadget is also one of the most enjoyable music making apps! Have made more songs on this then anything else, wish it was able to load in au3 synths/effects.

Monoboy

@MatthewAtStagelight said:
FYI: We'll be working on better wave editing tools for Stagelight, very soon.

Awesome! looking forward to it

Matt_Fletcher_2000

@Approach said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Ive had a bit of a play with NS2 now and I’m really impressed.

One of the biggest disappointments for me is there there are no ‘scale lock’ options in the piano roll. That’s a shame, but hopefully that might be coming. Anyway, guess you can’t have everything (on release).

Yes definitely need scale lock on the piano roll. I’m a terrible musician so I need all the help I can get to make the noise I’m compelled to produce. Wish I could Frankenstein BM3, SL and NS2 together.

The automation is a thing of beauty. In that it actually, you know, works. In so many apps, including in some ways Gadget, it isn’t implemented very well. It’s very imprecise and/or it’s a pain to edit. Whereas in NS2 I can immediately tell an awful lot of thought and user testing has gone into it. You can quantise, duplicate, move whole chunks up, down or left/right. You can even compress or expand your automation curves. It’s great.

And remember you can do this to 10 AU instrument parameters, which you can also of course record live automation from via the macro knobs. Very nice.

I miss:

• better scale lock / keyboard options
• freezing of AU tracks
• automation of AU FX
• a mod wheel (maybe able to be applied to the y axis of the keyboard?)
• Midi AU recording
• Audio tracks (a bit)

• And of course an iPhone version

• oh and MPE support would be the icing on the cake in the future

ohwell

+1 to what @Matt_Fletcher_2000 lists!

djjuniorpops

@MatthewAtStagelight thanks for sticking around and answering questions and user concerns, For me I love StageLight and the app could only get better since the developers are listening.
The only thing is to give some UI custom colours so that users could choose what they like.

[Deleted User]

It’s a funny old place this forum - I haven’t been following the NS2 stuff, but had a read through this one. And instead of tempting me to buy that, it inspired me to revisit Auria - based on the positive comments about it.

I used to use Auria a lot, until AUM turned my head. But had a play with Auria earlier and was reminded how flipping good it is.

I’ll still be using AUM, and now ApeMatrix, but for doing more DAW type stuff on the iPad, Auria’s back in the game.

wim

@MonzoPro said:
It’s a funny old place this forum - I haven’t been following the NS2 stuff, but had a read through this one. And instead of tempting me to buy that, it inspired me to revisit Auria - based on the positive comments about it.

I used to use Auria a lot, until AUM turned my head. But had a play with Auria earlier and was reminded how flipping good it is.

I’ll still be using AUM, and now ApeMatrix, but for doing more DAW type stuff on the iPad, Auria’s back in the game.

I used to gravitate toward Auria Pro just because Everything I needed to finis, I mean really finish, tracks, was there in one place. I learned to get along with the clunkiness of some of it because I could streamline things.

Unfortunately, AU midi has become important to me, and it’s just too broken in Auria Pro.

So, I’m still casting about for a the ultimate workflow. I have some favorites, but no clear favorite.

richardyot

@wim said:

@MonzoPro said:
It’s a funny old place this forum - I haven’t been following the NS2 stuff, but had a read through this one. And instead of tempting me to buy that, it inspired me to revisit Auria - based on the positive comments about it.

I used to use Auria a lot, until AUM turned my head. But had a play with Auria earlier and was reminded how flipping good it is.

I’ll still be using AUM, and now ApeMatrix, but for doing more DAW type stuff on the iPad, Auria’s back in the game.

I used to gravitate toward Auria Pro just because Everything I needed to finis, I mean really finish, tracks, was there in one place. I learned to get along with the clunkiness of some of it because I could streamline things.

Unfortunately, AU midi has become important to me, and it’s just too broken in Auria Pro.

So, I’m still casting about for a the ultimate workflow. I have some favorites, but no clear favorite.

I don't think you'll find it all in one app. Personally I'm perfectly happy to do the writing/composing in any number of apps, from GarageBand, Gadget, Cubasis, and now NS2 (and will probably check out StageLight at some stage) and finish in Auria. Works great. Auria gives you all the desktop class goodies, and the best audio editing on the platform, and you get to use the other DAWs for writing tunes.

[Deleted User]

@wim said:

@MonzoPro said:
It’s a funny old place this forum - I haven’t been following the NS2 stuff, but had a read through this one. And instead of tempting me to buy that, it inspired me to revisit Auria - based on the positive comments about it.

I used to use Auria a lot, until AUM turned my head. But had a play with Auria earlier and was reminded how flipping good it is.

I’ll still be using AUM, and now ApeMatrix, but for doing more DAW type stuff on the iPad, Auria’s back in the game.

I used to gravitate toward Auria Pro just because Everything I needed to finis, I mean really finish, tracks, was there in one place. I learned to get along with the clunkiness of some of it because I could streamline things.

Unfortunately, AU midi has become important to me, and it’s just too broken in Auria Pro.

So, I’m still casting about for a the ultimate workflow. I have some favorites, but no clear favorite.

Yeah I think that’s why AUM turned my head. What I’ve been doing is creating live jams in that, recording them live and exporting to desktop.

Nice and spontaneous though that is, I think I need to get back to a bit more structured iPad stuff. So I’ll still use AUM for the MIDI stuff and just record this in as audio in Auria. But with less going on so I can build up songs gradually, rather than jamming it all live.

As Richard said there’s no one thing that does it all, so it’s a case of connecting the boxes that do the job you’re after.

[Deleted User]

After much deliberation, I’ve changed my mind. Due to certain reasons (posted on the NS2 forum lol), I am going to change from using my current selection of DAWs to NS2 + Cubasis + Auria Pro

Norbert

@Fruitbat1919 said:
After much deliberation, I’ve changed my mind. Due to certain reasons (posted on the NS2 forum lol), I am going to change from using my current selection of DAWs to NS2 + Cubasis + Auria Pro

Why do you need Cubasis if you have NS2 and Auria Pro, I wonder? Perhaps for some stuff you purchased in there?

I am just curious. I don't use it much myself because I don't like the UI at all. But I recognize it can be powerful. Except now that NS2 is out, I don't see why someone would use both.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

[Deleted User]

@Norbert said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
After much deliberation, I’ve changed my mind. Due to certain reasons (posted on the NS2 forum lol), I am going to change from using my current selection of DAWs to NS2 + Cubasis + Auria Pro

Why do you need Cubasis if you have NS2 and Auria Pro, I wonder? Perhaps for some stuff you purchased in there?

I am just curious. I don't use it much myself because I don't like the UI at all. But I recognize it can be powerful. Except now that NS2 is out, I don't see why someone would use both.

Fair question. The reasons I’m keeping Cubasis are for:

1. Audio track pre mixing in Auria
2. For adding high resource AU apps to the mix and freeze them. Trying to do this in NS2, I would kill any processor room in no time. Apps like Model D, Zeeon and Syntronik (which I use for these for my main Analog sounds) eat up any processor head room in no time at all.
3. Using Roli Noise. I like odd little whishing and wooshing sounds made in Noise.
4. Adding any tracks that require IAA apps, as Cubasis is the most stable app using these imo - not that I use many these days.
5. Cubasis, like NS2 is quite good for getting material into it and out of it.
6. Cubasis adds little in complexity into the whole process.
7. Cubasis lets me record AU midi apps
8. Like NS2, Cubasis is pretty stable.

Hope this explains my thinking

[Deleted User]

@mannix said:

@greengrocer said:
@eross @Samu @Fruitbat1919
This is what I posted in another thread yesterday about StageLight's licensing model. Probaly nobody reads them but it's interesting to do so. Especially when companies use independent credit systems:

The limit of iDevices is a point though. The Open Labs license agreement is clear:
"Device license. You may install one copy of the software on one hardware device for your internal business use or your own personal enjoyment. The software may only be used by one person at time, unless you have purchased licenses for additional users."
I own multiple iOS devices, as probably a lot of forum members, but I only may install it on one iOS device. This is for me unacceptable because I want, as with all my apps, use them on all my devices which I only can if I buy a license for every iOS device (6 in total btw). I also have the impression that Stagelight with it's credit and seperate registration bypasses Apples policy that you can have your apps installed on at least 10 iOS devices using the same Apple ID.
For me this was the reason to not purchase Stagelight. But I would like to hear what @OpenLabstechsupport @MatthewAtStagelight have to say about this. A lot of people using iOS have an iPhone and iPad which already means you have to purchase 2 licenses. So tricky business. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Finally some discussion about the Stagelight licensing model. Their whole credit systems works around all the different stores. Which I understand when you want to work cross playform. Problem could be also that when they quit , have a server crash, etc. you could loose everything. stagelight is a small company.
But the issue about their licensing model that @greengrocer pointed is quite serious. Probably they do a check everytime you start up Stagelight and if there's already a version somewhere else running it won't work.

Hi @mannix. Our license agreement needs an update. We have no such limitations in the software, and have no problem with user's installing and running Stagelight on multiple devices they own. We'll be updating our license agreement shortly.

dabusgo

No way i abandon NS1 for NS2.

mannix

@MatthewAtStagelight said:

@mannix said:

@greengrocer said:
@eross @Samu @Fruitbat1919
This is what I posted in another thread yesterday about StageLight's licensing model. Probaly nobody reads them but it's interesting to do so. Especially when companies use independent credit systems:

The limit of iDevices is a point though. The Open Labs license agreement is clear:
"Device license. You may install one copy of the software on one hardware device for your internal business use or your own personal enjoyment. The software may only be used by one person at time, unless you have purchased licenses for additional users."
I own multiple iOS devices, as probably a lot of forum members, but I only may install it on one iOS device. This is for me unacceptable because I want, as with all my apps, use them on all my devices which I only can if I buy a license for every iOS device (6 in total btw). I also have the impression that Stagelight with it's credit and seperate registration bypasses Apples policy that you can have your apps installed on at least 10 iOS devices using the same Apple ID.
For me this was the reason to not purchase Stagelight. But I would like to hear what @OpenLabstechsupport @MatthewAtStagelight have to say about this. A lot of people using iOS have an iPhone and iPad which already means you have to purchase 2 licenses. So tricky business. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Finally some discussion about the Stagelight licensing model. Their whole credit systems works around all the different stores. Which I understand when you want to work cross playform. Problem could be also that when they quit , have a server crash, etc. you could loose everything. stagelight is a small company.
But the issue about their licensing model that @greengrocer pointed is quite serious. Probably they do a check everytime you start up Stagelight and if there's already a version somewhere else running it won't work.

Hi @mannix. Our license agreement needs an update. We have no such limitations in the software, and have no problem with user's installing and running Stagelight on multiple devices they own. We'll be updating our license agreement shortly.

AS already put in another thread. Thanks for clearing this up!

OscarSouth

@MonzoPro said:

@wim said:

@MonzoPro said:
It’s a funny old place this forum - I haven’t been following the NS2 stuff, but had a read through this one. And instead of tempting me to buy that, it inspired me to revisit Auria - based on the positive comments about it.

I used to use Auria a lot, until AUM turned my head. But had a play with Auria earlier and was reminded how flipping good it is.

I’ll still be using AUM, and now ApeMatrix, but for doing more DAW type stuff on the iPad, Auria’s back in the game.

I used to gravitate toward Auria Pro just because Everything I needed to finis, I mean really finish, tracks, was there in one place. I learned to get along with the clunkiness of some of it because I could streamline things.

Unfortunately, AU midi has become important to me, and it’s just too broken in Auria Pro.

So, I’m still casting about for a the ultimate workflow. I have some favorites, but no clear favorite.

Yeah I think that’s why AUM turned my head. What I’ve been doing is creating live jams in that, recording them live and exporting to desktop.

Nice and spontaneous though that is, I think I need to get back to a bit more structured iPad stuff. So I’ll still use AUM for the MIDI stuff and just record this in as audio in Auria. But with less going on so I can build up songs gradually, rather than jamming it all live.

As Richard said there’s no one thing that does it all, so it’s a case of connecting the boxes that do the job you’re after.

From reading your writing about your workflow with Rozeta and how you like to compose, I kind of feel that AUM+Modstep (optional AB for ease of use) is going to deliver exactly what you want. It's a combo that I keep coming back to again and again -- maybe the most flexible workflow on the platform!

brattcave

Ah... this is frustrating. For me there still isn't one DAW without a major flaw for the way I work.
I currently flit around from Beatmaker 3 for sampling, Xequence for midi, cubasis for general starting things off.

For me the (current) NS2 issues that stop me fully embracing it are:

1. Sustain Pedal support - I'm pretty staggered there's no support for this - most of my tracks feature some type of keys playing. ALL the other major DAWs allow this (Stagelight, Cubasis, BM3, AP). As silly as this seems, this is THE big one for me - the rest I can live with. Each to their own
2. Audio files - okay - these are coming...
3. AU integration with a decent size window
4. Limited/No Audiobus (Or AUM?) compatibility (Hey this is the AB forum!)
5. Apparent limited CC automation for AUs. (So far).
6. IAAs are a bit of a rats nest granted but without support I've lost access to some useful tools...until they get ported to AUs. (Maybe)

Sort out no.1 and the rest I'll get around. I could make an equivalent list for the other DAWS as well:
E.g Cubasis's lack of grid input for dotted / triplet notes in the piano roll...

However, I think NS2 shows potentially the most promise due to it's elegant workflow and top notch workhorse synth. I'm sure it will evolve but with it being a one man show this could take a while! Does Matt really do all this on his own? Staggering achievement if that's the case!

What does strike me reading this thread is how different everyone's needs are...