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Which iOS synths can do hard sync?

2

Comments

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Samu said:
    Poison-202 can do pretty mean sync as well and has dedicated pitch-envelope per oscillator making it easy to do sounds similar to those in the linked video.

    I think part of the 'charm' of the sounds in the linked videos is the control of the 'Envelope->VCO2 Pitch' using the mod-wheel and also the the filter on the Pro One.

    Yes. Being able to use the mod wheel to sweep the harmonics without altering the pitch is great. I need to get to know the modulation matrices of these synths better.

    I like the idea of per-oscillator pitch envelope. I’ll need to look into Poison.

    @dendy : What does it mean for an oscillator to be hard-synced to itself? How could an oscillator’s duty cycle be different from its own duty cycle?

  • dendydendy

    @dendy : What does it mean for an oscillator to be hard-synced to itself? How could an oscillator’s duty cycle be different from its own duty cycle?

    No idea how exactly it works, i just remember same thing was on Novation Super(Ultra)Nova HW synths ...

  • SamuSamu
    edited December 2018

    @dendy said:

    @dendy : What does it mean for an oscillator to be hard-synced to itself? How could an oscillator’s duty cycle be different from its own duty cycle?

    No idea how exactly it works, i just remember same thing was on Novation Super(Ultra)Nova HW synths ...

    It's actually pretty 'simple'.
    To create the 'sync sound' a detuned copy of the oscillator is 'synced' with the oscillators base-pitch causing the phase of the copy to re-start creating the 'sync sound'.

    Many apps do this for example KEW, SynthMaster One, Europa in Reason Compact, GR-16 etc. etc.
    And Obsidian in NS2...

  • dendydendy
    edited December 2018

    @Samu ah ok, thanks for explanation, that makes sense.. so i guess "ratio" knob sets detuning of "ghost" copy of oscillator which is used for syncing, "hardness" then sets soft-sync in it most left position and hard-sync in most right position

  • SamuSamu

    @dendy said:
    @Samu ah ok, thanks for exmaplation, that makes sense.. so i guess "ratio" knob sets detuning of "ghost" copy of oscillator which is used for syncing, "hardness" then sets soft-sync in it most left position and hard-sync in most right position

    Something like that yes. I've not analysed the hard/soft options in detail. But it could be related to 'phase'.(either 0° or 90°)

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @samu: in obsidian can you modulate the frequency of the "ghost" oscillator?

    I wonder if that's how SynthMaster One's sync options work--they don't really document much about. They refer to a ghost oscillator but don't mention if one can modulate its frequency.

  • rs2000rs2000

    @espiegel123 said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Cib said:

    @rs2000 said:
    I've just tried Zeeon and it works well:

    I'm surprised how the Pro-One in the video sounds thinner than Zeeon.
    So much for vintage analog vs. virtual analog :D

    No wonder if that is the patch in your picture with all saturations on and some more going on.
    Repro (the ProOne emulation) indeed has the best sync i heard yet and especially nothing beats it´s range as well.
    But Zeeon is great too indeed. I mean Zeeon just can do nearly all :)
    Off-topic but i also love Zeeon since it can go so low and high. Biggest range of frequencies (together with Model 15) in iOS world.
    Oh yes, Model 15 can do it as well of course (my favorite sync on iOS yet).

    Yes, that's the patch and yes, I've used what's on board :smiley:
    Model 15 is great too, I'm just faster on Zeeon so it's usually the first one I pick.

    Edit: Here's the new Zeeon bank with one patch. You can open it in Zeeon, save the program to an existing bank and delete the new bank if you like.

    The Model 15’s ‘sync’ has a very different character (which I also like). I am having fun using the Animoog-style keys and plugging their modulation (via the attenuator) output into one of the oscillator frequency inputs to create a sort of finger-wah.

    Sounds interesting!
    Do you mind sharing your M15 patch?
    zippy is easy to upload to if you don't have a cloud account.

  • SamuSamu
    edited December 2018

    @espiegel123 said:
    @samu: in obsidian can you modulate the frequency of the "ghost" oscillator?

    Yepp just modulate the 'ratio'(ie. the 'detune' value) when sync is enabled.

    I wonder if that's how SynthMaster One's sync options work--they don't really document much about.

    For 'sync' in Synthmaster One select one of the 'Sync' alternatives under Algorithm for the oscillator.
    Once you've done that modulate 'Phase' parameter for the Sync-Effect.

    Simple SynthMaster One patch where Mod Envelope 2 controls the 'Phase' via Modwheel.
    The Sync Option is 'No Window'.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @rs2000 said:

    Sounds interesting!
    Do you mind sharing your M15 patch?
    zippy is easy to upload to if you don't have a cloud account.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/k3lo4csups46gqp/EAS SYNC TESTS - Model 15.zip?dl=0

    Four Model 15 patches that I’ve been using to explore its strong sync. The last one is fun for creating a glitchy noisefest if you slide your fingers on the blades and play the mod wheel.

  • rs2000rs2000

    @espiegel123 said:
    @rs2000 said:

    Sounds interesting!
    Do you mind sharing your M15 patch?
    zippy is easy to upload to if you don't have a cloud account.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/k3lo4csups46gqp/EAS SYNC TESTS - Model 15.zip?dl=0

    Four Model 15 patches that I’ve been using to explore its strong sync. The last one is fun for creating a glitchy noisefest if you slide your fingers on the blades and play the mod wheel.

    Thank you - I've imported the four patches but no sound except "DC clicks"?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @rs2000 : that is puzzling. I wonder if somehow the bank became broken in transit. How did you bring them into Model 15?

    I'll try reimporting them and see if the same happens to me.

  • KühlKühl

    @espiegel123 said:
    Wondering which iOS synths can have their oscillators set up with hard sync.

    I’m just a guitarist... what is hard sync?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Kühl said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    Wondering which iOS synths can have their oscillators set up with hard sync.

    I’m just a guitarist... what is hard sync?

    I'll post some useful links (you might want to check out the links on the previous page of this discussion also).

    Short version: it is a form of modulation (I think first used on the Prophet 5) where one oscillator's waveform (typically a square/pulse wave or a sawtooth) is used to constantly reset the duty cycle of another oscillator running at a different frequency. It generates unusual harmonics and when the frequency of the second oscillator is modulated, the harmonics sweep. The result is a like a fuzz/wah effect.

    Typically, you only take the audio output of the modulated oscillator. The pitch actually comes from the modulating oscillator -- because each time it cycles, the other oscillator cycles and frequency is the number of cycles per second. The modulated oscillator isn't finishing its cycles, hence the unusual harmonics.

    You'll know the sound as soon as you listen to the examples.

    Here is a better explanation:

    https://www.keithmcmillen.com/blog/simple-synthesis-part-7-oscillator-sync/

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @espiegel123 said:
    @rs2000 : that is puzzling. I wonder if somehow the bank became broken in transit. How did you bring them into Model 15?

    I'll try reimporting them and see if the same happens to me.

    I must have goofed exporting. I dragged the folder of presets into AudioShare and zipped that folder. I just saw that there is a Share Current Bank option that I should have used . I will try again when I get back to the iPad in a bit.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @rs2000 : that is puzzling. I wonder if somehow the bank became broken in transit. How did you bring them into Model 15?

    I'll try reimporting them and see if the same happens to me.

    I must have goofed exporting. I dragged the folder of presets into AudioShare and zipped that folder. I just saw that there is a Share Current Bank option that I should have used . I will try again when I get back to the iPad in a bit.

    Try this:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ydw7g9zql9iinfa/EASSYNCTESTS.m15b?dl=0

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    Here is a quick demo of the sounds

  • gusgranitegusgranite

    Learning...

  • rs2000rs2000

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @rs2000 : that is puzzling. I wonder if somehow the bank became broken in transit. How did you bring them into Model 15?

    I'll try reimporting them and see if the same happens to me.

    I must have goofed exporting. I dragged the folder of presets into AudioShare and zipped that folder. I just saw that there is a Share Current Bank option that I should have used . I will try again when I get back to the iPad in a bit.

    Try this:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ydw7g9zql9iinfa/EASSYNCTESTS.m15b?dl=0

    Thank you, it works perfectly now. The second set of patches is a totally different one, although they have the same names. Weird.

    Model 15 can sound very sharp and aggressive indeed.
    Here's my little contribution added as a fifth preset:
    https://www114.zippyshare.com/v/NRhyO4GH/file.html

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @rs2000 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @rs2000 : that is puzzling. I wonder if somehow the bank became broken in transit. How did you bring them into Model 15?

    I'll try reimporting them and see if the same happens to me.

    I must have goofed exporting. I dragged the folder of presets into AudioShare and zipped that folder. I just saw that there is a Share Current Bank option that I should have used . I will try again when I get back to the iPad in a bit.

    Try this:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ydw7g9zql9iinfa/EASSYNCTESTS.m15b?dl=0

    Thank you, it works perfectly now. The second set of patches is a totally different one, although they have the same names. Weird.

    Model 15 can sound very sharp and aggressive indeed.
    Here's my little contribution added as a fifth preset:
    https://www114.zippyshare.com/v/NRhyO4GH/file.html

    Nice patch!

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @rs2000 said:

    @Cib said:

    @rs2000 said:
    I've just tried Zeeon and it works well:

    I'm surprised how the Pro-One in the video sounds thinner than Zeeon.
    So much for vintage analog vs. virtual analog :D

    No wonder if that is the patch in your picture with all saturations on and some more going on.
    Repro (the ProOne emulation) indeed has the best sync i heard yet and especially nothing beats it´s range as well.
    But Zeeon is great too indeed. I mean Zeeon just can do nearly all :)
    Off-topic but i also love Zeeon since it can go so low and high. Biggest range of frequencies (together with Model 15) in iOS world.
    Oh yes, Model 15 can do it as well of course (my favorite sync on iOS yet).

    Yes, that's the patch and yes, I've used what's on board :smiley:
    Model 15 is great too, I'm just faster on Zeeon so it's usually the first one I pick.

    Edit: Here's the new Zeeon bank with one patch. You can open it in Zeeon, save the program to an existing bank and delete the new bank if you like.

    What is the trick t downloading from zippyshare without being redirected to sketchy download and special offer pages?

  • rs2000rs2000

    @espiegel123 said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Cib said:

    @rs2000 said:
    I've just tried Zeeon and it works well:

    I'm surprised how the Pro-One in the video sounds thinner than Zeeon.
    So much for vintage analog vs. virtual analog :D

    No wonder if that is the patch in your picture with all saturations on and some more going on.
    Repro (the ProOne emulation) indeed has the best sync i heard yet and especially nothing beats it´s range as well.
    But Zeeon is great too indeed. I mean Zeeon just can do nearly all :)
    Off-topic but i also love Zeeon since it can go so low and high. Biggest range of frequencies (together with Model 15) in iOS world.
    Oh yes, Model 15 can do it as well of course (my favorite sync on iOS yet).

    Yes, that's the patch and yes, I've used what's on board :smiley:
    Model 15 is great too, I'm just faster on Zeeon so it's usually the first one I pick.

    Edit: Here's the new Zeeon bank with one patch. You can open it in Zeeon, save the program to an existing bank and delete the new bank if you like.

    What is the trick t downloading from zippyshare without being redirected to sketchy download and special offer pages?

    Some use popup blockers but I just have my cmd+W fingers (Win: CTRL+W) ready and close them as soon as the new windows pop up.
    Zippyshare automatically deletes files after four weeks of inactivity which is not much worse than dropbox, except you don't have to register or log in.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @rs2000 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Cib said:

    @rs2000 said:
    I've just tried Zeeon and it works well:

    I'm surprised how the Pro-One in the video sounds thinner than Zeeon.
    So much for vintage analog vs. virtual analog :D

    No wonder if that is the patch in your picture with all saturations on and some more going on.
    Repro (the ProOne emulation) indeed has the best sync i heard yet and especially nothing beats it´s range as well.
    But Zeeon is great too indeed. I mean Zeeon just can do nearly all :)
    Off-topic but i also love Zeeon since it can go so low and high. Biggest range of frequencies (together with Model 15) in iOS world.
    Oh yes, Model 15 can do it as well of course (my favorite sync on iOS yet).

    Yes, that's the patch and yes, I've used what's on board :smiley:
    Model 15 is great too, I'm just faster on Zeeon so it's usually the first one I pick.

    Edit: Here's the new Zeeon bank with one patch. You can open it in Zeeon, save the program to an existing bank and delete the new bank if you like.

    What is the trick t downloading from zippyshare without being redirected to sketchy download and special offer pages?

    Some use popup blockers but I just have my cmd+W fingers (Win: CTRL+W) ready and close them as soon as the new windows pop up.
    Zippyshare automatically deletes files after four weeks of inactivity which is not much worse than dropbox, except you don't have to register or log in.

    I was able to get the Model 15 file but not the Zeeon one. ZippyShare put up popup after popup and various Download buttons that were not related to the file in question. I could never figure out how to get the file. Oh well. This was on iOS.

  • rs2000rs2000

    @espiegel123 said:
    I was able to get the Model 15 file but not the Zeeon one. ZippyShare put up popup after popup and various Download buttons that were not related to the file in question. I could never figure out how to get the file. Oh well. This was on iOS.

    Here's another try as a zip file:
    https://www18.zippyshare.com/v/x5F7Jyv2/file.html
    On the iPad, when downloading, just close the tab that opens after you hit the download button and you should see the downloaded file that you can e.g. open in Documents or AudioShare, unzip and open in Zeeon.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @rs2000 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    I was able to get the Model 15 file but not the Zeeon one. ZippyShare put up popup after popup and various Download buttons that were not related to the file in question. I could never figure out how to get the file. Oh well. This was on iOS.

    Here's another try as a zip file:
    https://www18.zippyshare.com/v/x5F7Jyv2/file.html
    On the iPad, when downloading, just close the tab that opens after you hit the download button and you should see the downloaded file that you can e.g. open in Documents or AudioShare, unzip and open in Zeeon.

    Thanks for trying but no luck for me. Clicking the download button had no effect but popping up another tab. When I closed it, the zippyshare page was unchanged. It’s ok. No need to figure it up it. Just letting yo know as an FYI that Zippyshare has issues.

  • JocphoneJocphone

    Don't know if it has been mentioned but Reason Compact's Europa has quite a variety of oscillator sync and folding options. Half price at the moment as well..

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Jocphone said:
    Don't know if it has been mentioned but Reason Compact's Europa has quite a variety of oscillator sync and folding options. Half price at the moment as well..

    Tx, for the tip. I've heard such wildly different opinions about it that I haven't looked into it yet. Should I?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    Was able to download on my Mac without a problem. Nice patch! Thanks!

    @rs2000 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    I was able to get the Model 15 file but not the Zeeon one. ZippyShare put up popup after popup and various Download buttons that were not related to the file in question. I could never figure out how to get the file. Oh well. This was on iOS.

    Here's another try as a zip file:
    https://www18.zippyshare.com/v/x5F7Jyv2/file.html
    On the iPad, when downloading, just close the tab that opens after you hit the download button and you should see the downloaded file that you can e.g. open in Documents or AudioShare, unzip and open in Zeeon.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Samu said:
    Poison-202 can do pretty mean sync as well and has dedicated pitch-envelope per oscillator making it easy to do sounds similar to those in the linked video.

    I think part of the 'charm' of the sounds in the linked videos is the control of the 'Envelope->VCO2 Pitch' using the mod-wheel and also the the filter on the Pro One.

    How does Poison-202 sound generally? It is tempting.

  • rs2000rs2000

    @espiegel123 said:
    Was able to download on my Mac without a problem. Nice patch! Thanks!

    You're welcome :smiley:

  • JocphoneJocphone

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Jocphone said:
    Don't know if it has been mentioned but Reason Compact's Europa has quite a variety of oscillator sync and folding options. Half price at the moment as well..

    Tx, for the tip. I've heard such wildly different opinions about it that I haven't looked into it yet. Should I?

    Only you can answer that. If not having that money would cause you issue then probably no. If you can afford it easily and another AUv3 synth is appealing to you then why not? The controversy wasn’t really about the synth itself, rather the naming of it, the heightened but expectations and the fact that it has a larger sibling on desktop that costs a whole lot more. For me, it’s a different and nice sounding iOS synth, especially now it has preset saving, which was off putting. I also hope, perhaps vainly, that it signals to the Props a willingness for iOS synth musicians to embrace their software.

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