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Do emotionally scarred people make the most beautiful music?

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Comments

  • @oat_phipps said:
    No, not at all. Some artists are more appealing because they are more specific about the pain they've experienced, but being tortured is far from a requisite from making beautiful things. In fact, as far as I know, my favorite artists other than Brian Wilson have been level & driven people. And I've always found the ability to tell an emotional story in third person, rather than a first-person account, to be much harder and much more effective (even if the artist was drawing on his/her own experience).

    To be fair, the Wilson boys (The Beach Boys) had a domineering and driven father who was a control freak and a bit of a monster to his kids.

  • @NeuM said:

    @oat_phipps said:
    No, not at all. Some artists are more appealing because they are more specific about the pain they've experienced, but being tortured is far from a requisite from making beautiful things. In fact, as far as I know, my favorite artists other than Brian Wilson have been level & driven people. And I've always found the ability to tell an emotional story in third person, rather than a first-person account, to be much harder and much more effective (even if the artist was drawing on his/her own experience).

    To be fair, the Wilson boys (The Beach Boys) had a domineering and driven father who was a control freak and a bit of a monster to his kids.

    *other than Brian Wilson, as previously stated

    ;)

  • Worth a read about the life of D.Shostakovich. What a (fucked) time and place to be alive, and what it must have done to his mental health!

  • @OscarSouth said:
    Worth a read about the life of D.Shostakovich. What a (fucked) time and place to be alive, and what it must have done to his mental health!

    I've just spent the week immersing myself in Shostakovich ... being swamped and engulfed morelike. The Australian Radio National Classics network decided this week long festival of angst pain humour and brilliance would be character-building for the nation in these plague times.

    Such deep tragedy - ground down and abused by history and power - Shostakovich spoke for millions ... expressed their souls ... why he had to be controlled. Imagine a world where symphonic music could land you in the thick of dread events, get you deaded badly.

    Get yerself comfortable and settle down for the full fifth symphony ... a tortured piece of music yet profoundly beautiful and probably triumphant... hopeful possibly.

  • I'm gonna go with a firm no on this one.

    Some of the most terrifying, shocking, and challenging music I've ever heard came from artists who just had great imaginations, with good work ethic, and the bravery to try something different.

    Some artists channel negative experiences to inspire their art. Others channel the positive feeling their art gives them.

    It's just that amazing artists with average regular lives don't make for great "behind the music" episodes.

  • I always thought that the most privileged did, because ain't nobody else got time for something as selfish as "music" 😆

    Mostly-kidding

  • Works of art arise from an infinite aloneness.
    Rainer Maria Rilke

  • I wonder if I have met someone without emotional scars?

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    Works of art arise from an infinite aloneness.
    Rainer Maria Rilke

  • I’ve always wanted to be the type of person who could transmute emotion into art. Sure, I can make music, but it’s not attached to my conscious mind. I don’t think I have such fine control over the results. I agree @AudioGus that everyone has emotional scars. From some research on early childhood education, we all experience some trauma at a young age (toddler) because like is never exactly how we want it. This events shape our personality and typically stay with us through our lives. They manifest in quick extreme reactions or sudden strong feelings that we don’t quite understand.

    Taoism and Buddhism are very cool ways to address this stuff. I like Qi Gong.

  • Pain, suffering, madness = the ever popular tortured artist effect (like Rundgren said). This potent combo all makes for some of the best music. Combine that with extreme sensitivity plus being highly creative & original and you get a musical genius that comes along once every hundred years or less.

  • @AudioGus said:
    I wonder if I have met someone without emotional scars?

    Excellent point!

  • @telecharge said:
    Read this not too long ago...

    Secrets of the Creative Brain
    A leading neuroscientist who has spent decades studying creativity shares her research on where genius comes from, whether it is dependent on high IQ—and why it is so often accompanied by mental illness.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/07/secrets-of-the-creative-brain/372299/

    Thanks for sharing!

  • There is zero correlation to deep emotional scarring and the beauty of music, mainly because every human every born is deeply emotionally scarred in one way or another. You are. You may not focus on that part, but I dare the next post to be from someone whose life has been perfect. Were Beethoven’s scars deeper than some tone deaf moron’s misfortunes even tho the latter’s music sounded like crap? Probably a tie overall.

  • @NoiseHorse said:
    There is zero correlation to deep emotional scarring and the beauty of music, mainly because every human every born is deeply emotionally scarred in one way or another. You are. You may not focus on that part, but I dare the next post to be from someone whose life has been perfect. Were Beethoven’s scars deeper than some tone deaf moron’s misfortunes even tho the latter’s music sounded like crap? Probably a tie overall.

    Agreed.

  • @NoiseHorse said:
    There is zero correlation to deep emotional scarring and the beauty of music, mainly because every human every born is deeply emotionally scarred in one way or another. You are. You may not focus on that part, but I dare the next post to be from someone whose life has been perfect. Were Beethoven’s scars deeper than some tone deaf moron’s misfortunes even tho the latter’s music sounded like crap? Probably a tie overall.

    I’m with the Horse.

  • edited February 2022

    Yes, everyone has emotional scars. Maybe a better question would be. Does the way someone feels (definition required) and is troubled (definition required) by the events that have scarred (definition required) them influence the likelihood that they will create (definition required) beautiful (definition required) music definition required).

  • There’s a big difference between feelings and feeling. We all experience the former. Musical greats are in deep communion with the latter

  • edited February 2022

    @LinearLineman said:
    There’s a big difference between feelings and feeling. We all experience the former. Musical greats are in deep communion with the latter

    Does that mean they are better at feeling their feelings? Or more that that their feelings are easier to feel? I have a feeling that anyone with feelings has feeling but the variation in feeling is hard to measure. As is the measurement of feelings. We can really only gauge feelings by the response we see, but I have a feeling there would be some sort of brain viewing device that gives you a better feel for the feelings you are feeling. Which raises another point. By feeling feelings aren't you demonstrating that you have feeling or is there a difference between having a feel for feeling and feeling feelings?

  • @Allerom, you may not understand what feeling is.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    @Allerom, you may not understand what feeling is.

    What does that mean? For me. And possibly those around me. What am I?

  • edited February 2022

    @Allerom. I got from your post that you didn’t understand what I was saying. You quoted me (not sure why, frankly) and made a response that was not about what I was talking about at all.. Musical (or any artistic/creative) feeling has nothing to do with emotional feelings. I know this because I have struggled to distinguish and separate the two for many years. That struggle is pretty much over for me now…. tho I am not a musical great. That’s what I was trying to communicate. I guess I was not clear in what I said.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    There’s a big difference between feelings and feeling. We all experience the former. Musical greats are in deep communion with the latter

    Agreed.

  • "feeling" is the flow, "feelings" is when it hits yr sides

  • edited February 2022

    Interesting. It’s not odd, that whole notion is a familiar philosophical debate about the nature of great art. I don’t think there is an easy answer, and it’s not a prerequisite to make great music. Also one factor does not mean, or equal the other. You can’t manufacture pain in the interest of creating great art. I do believe that people who “feel more”, or have been made to “feel more” for various reasons, are more likely to be able to tap into those deep seeded emotions/feelings and express them in a more honest, more real way. The art becomes therapeutic as deep emotions are released in a powerful & creative way. Expressing these deep seeded and powerful emotions can result in a more honest truth, that connects with people in a stronger way.

    On a side note, I recently read about something called Hypersensitivity. It’s estimated 15-20% of people have it. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/highly-sensitive-person
    I mentioned this because pain is not relative, different things, affect different people, in different ways. one’s worst nightmares could be another’s everyday reality. Everyone has their own cross to bare. It’s very Subjective. That’s not even getting into all the internal and external struggles that one might encounter throughout life.

    I think in probabilities a lot. Can hardship, or deep emotions help a creative type express their pain or fundamental truth, in a deeper more powerful way, yes. Does it mean that person will, no.

    PS this is completely abstract, I’m definitely not speaking of anyone in particular just my personal opinion.

  • @MorganR82 said:
    I have chronic pain and other disabilities and experience intense feeling of suffering especially in bad phases
    Music has helped me to express these things but also hopes, dreams, good times I wouldn’t say my music is more beautiful because of that but I’m certainly more creative than if things were different and I have more time to do stuff because I’m at home more than average people
    I also tend to lean towards artists that have experienced emotional scars or are disabled etc

    I totally agree. Check out the link I shared above.

  • this ability to manipulate a world of sound,
    through the simple touch of skin on glass...

    Gurdjieff believed in two forms of "art" ...

    and from my own perspective, my play with my ipad is very much subjective art,
    but it is also a healing process (for me)

    ... to breathe and connect with the machine ...
    ... to breathe with fingers on screen ...

  • edited February 2022

    @telecharge said:
    Read this not too long ago...

    Secrets of the Creative Brain
    A leading neuroscientist who has spent decades studying creativity shares her research on where genius comes from, whether it is dependent on high IQ—and why it is so often accompanied by mental illness.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/07/secrets-of-the-creative-brain/372299/

    Fantastic essay. The ending paragraph summed things up perfectly.

    Some people see things others cannot, and they are right, and we call them creative geniuses. Some people see things others cannot, and they are wrong, and we call them mentally ill. And some people, like John Nash, are both.

    On a personal level, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in my late teens and medicated for the condition until my late 20's. At that point, I came to the conclusion that it would be better to deal with the disorder without medication and ride the highs and lows of the condition. I had been fortunate enough to receive many years of excellent cognitive behavior therapy during my 20's, and that provided me with many of the tools that I've come to rely on over the last 20 years or so.

    In simple terms, you are never cured of bipolar disorder, but you learn how to better cope with the highs and lows of the condition. The stereotype is of bouts of exceptional creativity during periods of mania, but things aren't as simple as that as bouts of mania also have a tendency to be the most destructive. And much as you might have made the decision to stop taking medication for your condition, that doesn't stop you from self-medicating in ways that are even more destructive.

    But 30+ years of knowingly living with mental illness has left me in no doubt that my creativity is intrinsically linked with my condition.

    Other points in the Atlantic article that rang true, were the tendency to learn via autodidactic methods, and having a thirst for knowledge that goes far beyond learning for a specific career path. I've always been uncomfortable with the term polymath, as it's often communicated as being intrinsically linked to 'genius'. I may have always chosen creative pursuits in my career path/s, but I most certainly have never considered myself a genius! :)

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