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Comments
Not quite. The relationship between the cutoff and volume is interesting and has a somewhat different character than a standard low-pass filter (even if you ignore the resonance). I don't think the low pass gate is as critical as the complex oscillator setup, but I think it contributes to certain sounds more than others.
I wouldn't call it voodoo, but the Vactrol has a rather different response curve than a normal voltage controlled AMP. The difference is audible.
Even transistor based lowpass gates have a different character than a typical lowpass filter. Tony Rolando talks about it in his great talk that someone posted up-thread--and lots of others that spend a lot of time with Buchla-inspired systems make mention of it. You can certainly imitate a lot of the features by using a lowpass filter and VCA under envelope control. But for certain sounds , the way the freq response changes as the gate closes contributes to a special character.
@brambos if you ever decide to make another West-Coast style synth, it would be great if the waveshaper/wavefolder had a bit more "nastiness" as it gets cranked up high.
@brambos
@Max23
@espiegel123
i'm not a Buchla fan, or detractor. just a fan of synthesis.
opto-isolators (like the vactrol) responds slowly to c/v. that is part of what creates the shape. cadmium memory effect also affects how the low pass gate responds to c/v (non-linearly, imprecise, a little different each trigger, voltage, etc).
the lpg's don't always have resonance, unless you are talking about the use of feedback in the low pass at circuit level, used to create a basic VCA. i think the low pass is 2 pole. there is also simple, non resonant filtering (which slows/slews the response) in a few of Buchla's oscillators (not vactrols. caps ).
in a Buchla patch there will be at least a few opto-isolator (vactrols), so it does contribute to the character of the Buchla. more vactrols, more 'character' (more non linearity). the wavefolder definitely contributes to the sound (if a waveshaper is used). wavefolders/waveshapers/etc. will add character to any oscillator (Buchla and non-Buchla).
espiegel123. in Audulus ( or whatever modular system is being used ), try using a one pole, non resonant filter on all modulation inputs that you are creating/using. you will need to play around with the frequency of that non resonant filter to get the response that you're after ( i don't know the math, sorry ). this will emulate the way that the opto-isolator responds (slowly, sludgy, syrupy, etc). if there is a prebuilt slew function in your ios modulars, try that as well. the cadmium memory effect will require a little research, but it can be done. definitely no voodoo :-)
i recently tried ripplemaker in AUM, created a simple patch, turned the gain up full, added an AUM limiter in the second slot, an AUM saturation in the third slot, and a second AUM saturation in the fourth slot (just in case). i listened to some Todd Barton sound files as recommended. taking into account that i don't have access to the patch/s that Todd Barton used, or the amount of modules that would be needed, it sounded close IMO. sounded similar to Louis and Bebe Barron to my ears.
i hope that helps you in your quest.
i suppose we can all hope/ask that brambos will create another modular to use with ripplemaker. i hope that audio input is added to many of the current modules in ripplemaker. using more lpg's would be fun.
@frond : I think you misinterpreted this comment of mine:
"The relationship between the cutoff and volume is interesting and has a somewhat different character than a standard low-pass filter (even if you ignore the resonance). "
I didn't mean that lpg's have a resonance -- I wanted to clarify that lpg's (vactrol-based or not) are different from standard low-pass filters for reasons beyond the lack of a Q/resonance -- and that as a result a low-pass gate can sometimes give a character that is different from what you would get with a typical low-pass filter.
@Max23 : true vactrols are slow, but (sorry to repeat myself) even fast-responding lpg's can have a character more akin to the Buchla than standard low-pass filter.
This difference is not necessarily tied to vactrols. It is certainly true that vactrols have a particular character. But there are synths (such as the 0-Coast) that have a lot of this character even with a fast-responding transistor-based lpg. The way the frequencies get rolled off as the gate closes is sometimes an important part of a sound.
I would love to hear what you came up with in the experiment that you described. I am getting a little closer in Audulus to creating some of the sounds and as I do so, my ears are becoming better-tuned.
One of the things that I am pretty certain of as I delve into this more -- experiment, listen, read.... is that the interaction between a number of the components used by Buchla and incorporated into things like the 0-Coast and Aalto -- are critical in a non-reductive way.
Wavefolding/waveshaping is a key-part (and the particular character of the wavefolder makes a big difference) but can't be decoupled from the way that AM and FM are wired into the system and (really this shouldn't be a surprise) the character of the filter/gate makes a difference -- and the interactions are rich and somewhat chaotic (in the technical sense of dynamic non-linear response) in a way that creates some very interesting "organic" (even if decidedly not like any real acoustic instrument) textures and sounds that with a few dial twists can morph in a way very different from what happens with a standard-model subtractive synth.
As I work with Audulus (at which I am still a total newb), I am realizing that if one were to invest the time, one could probably develop synths that have a lot of this character, but I don't have the knowledge to know how to tweak the wavefolding/shaping to give it the particular sort of richness/responsiveness that Buchla or Tony Rolando have come up with.
Todd Barton has a Buchla blog that features a short video where he just twists the Timbre (wavefolding), High Order (pulse width mod?) and symmetry knobs to demonstrate the range of the oscillator. And there are 0-Coast vids where people do the same. They are different from each other but both have a depth/range that (in my opinion) that are key. I think that is way if one adds just a tiny bit of modulation to those parameters, you can get such a vibrant, vibratory system going that sounds responsive and non-static in a special way. It is amazing how some people come up with sounds that live on the border of stability/instability that characterizes great guitar feedback or saxophone over-blowing -- not in an imitative way but capturing that edge -- which I find compelling but which is not everyone's cup of tea.
Having now listened to a lot of pros talk about their positive and negative experiences with Buchla's, one of the things that stands out is that they require a different mindset in terms of exploring and programming because it isn't obvious from just listening to the oscillators and sweeping the modulation where the magical settings are. It takes a lot of patient slow dial turning to discover sounds hidden between ugly, uninteresting territories. And, as Todd says, sometimes it also requires rapid knob turning as well.
I think the non-linear response of the system is daunting to people.
Very different from working with a Moog or Arp modular where you can fairly quickly develop a sense of how to dial things in. It is one of the reasons that a lot of people that had access to Buchlas but had Moog/Arp/Oberheim chops found Buchlas uninteresting. There is an interesting interview that Vince Clarke does with a guy who explains a Buchla to him and Vince Clarke seems mystified -- and it turns out Vince Clarke at one time had a Buchla music easel (early 90s?) but got rid of it because he couldn't figure out how to make sense of it -- its architecture is so alien.
@Max23: thanks for posting those videos. I particular like that second one.
the circuitry (hardware) or algorithm (software) behind the 'organic' sound of an LPG is not relevant in my opinion. If the resulting sound appears to be similar to the acoustic counterpart (wood, skin, metal), it is musically more interesting. That's the magic of the Buchla synthesisers, their complex oscillators, wavefolders, LPG's.
There are rather few examples that demonstrate this particular sound.
I think that is probably why there are so few clamoring for more West Coast style synths (at least on iOS) -- there isn't that much exposure even among EM fans to the sonic richness these types of synths have. I get the sense that there are a lot of guys like me whose primary exposure to West Coast synths were Subotnick's early recordings -- which don't really explore the timbral richness -- which leads to the conclusion that they are bleep, bloop synths not that different from Moogs and Arps other than the weird sequencer and envelope follower. There is so much more to them. And, they lend themselves to the iPad -- but there's not much clamor for them.
I remained blissfully ignorant of how wrong that impression was until a few weeks ago.
I guess it is not surprising given how few Buchlas and Serges were out in the world compared to more typical modulars.
By the way, I just found a paper about the Buchla wavefolding algorithm.
http://www.dafx17.eca.ed.ac.uk/papers/DAFx17_paper_82.pdf
Interested in West Coast style synths? Add your voice to the Madrona Labs forum to express an interest in Aalto for iPad. Aalto is a wonderful synth:
https://madronalabs.com/topics/7487-ipad-aalto-and-kaivo
Totally fascinating discussion.
Oh boy. Next thing you know, they'll announce Soundplane compatibility with the IOS version - making it harder to resist
big fat +1
buchla bongos ftw!
In the absence of an iOS synth that meets with my complex oscillator desires, I've been digging into Audulus and frankensteining together a Buchla-inspired (but definitely not a clone) synth. It is a work-in-progress, but it can now make some pretty satisfying sounds. Here is an improv from this morning: