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What Is The True Purpose of Genre? / Unify or Divide?
From a discussion with @McDtracy about genre...the overlap of genres makes it all a bit confusing. What is jazz - what is not jazz, as in my case, where improvisation, swing, jazz, contemporary, mid eastern, often get pounded into oatcakes. In the genre of classical music it usually creates a divide as the "keepers of the flame" demand a purity and sacrosanct library of what is and isn't classical (just as they exempted Stravinsky when Rite of Spring was first performed). But the same can be said for Jazzophiles... smooth jazz...hmmmm, very suspect. And, of course, the Oxford English Dictionary definition of a particular genre may be nuanced away from the generally accepted definition.
I cannot speak for other genres. Clearly something like Gregorian chants would not include a choral version of "Gregoria On My Mind". And, probably, Gregorian Chants are not classical music, though classical lovers might welcome it with their ears.
So, if sometimes a genre is distinct, and sometimes indistinct, what is its meaning and purpose? To allow listeners to find a body of music in line with their tastes? To catalog different types of music for ethnoanthropologists? To divide one category of listeners from another? To unify those who love a certain type of music on a forum (but even Talk Classical, for example, has a non-classical subforum)?
Martial music is an interesting genre. Is "Hail To The Chief" martial music? Bagpipes were used to frighten the enemy while Scots marched against their enemies (other Scots, perhaps?). But when bagpipes play Amazing Grace and shivers run down our spines is there true cognitive dissonance? The Nazis used swing music to identify their, albeit adolescent, enemies (research "swing kids" during the Hitler era).
So music, as all the arts, can be political as well. Can "genre" paint a target on our backs? How is genre exploited by marketers and producers? How do our tastes classify us demographically? How are our opinions a kind of currency that we invest in?
I have no real answers, and my examples may be flawed, but as the word "genre" is so easily invoked, perhaps others can shed light on these questions
Leading to some fun and meaningful discussion (If anyone else, that is, thinks there is a question to begin with).
Comments
I consider genres a very limited and flawed yet still somewhat useful tool to roughly classify music styles. I find it hard to rely on them because different people often classify the same song quite differently.
Example: Telling a stranger to name the funkiest song ever is like going to a random restaurant and ordering the best red wine they have. In both cases you never know what you get (except you know the restaurant of course).
If I had to answer in one word, I'd say: Divide.
And I gues that already says enough about a genre's meaningfulness
humans like to categorize, evaluate and discuss. “Genre” is just another in a endless list of mental devices we use to try to understand and explain things that cannot be perfectly understood or explained.
The only genres I avoid are the ones that start with the word Christian. Not a religious/political statement. Just quality control.
Well, Adam named everything... I guess he started us off.
Human beings filter their experience and are social. Genres of music are just another tool people use to do this. A tool’s purpose is dependent upon who is using the tool. Some may decide not to use a particular tool. Using a term like, “true” to discuss such an abstract and subjective concept like genre seems to have very little relevance to a process that relies upon group consensus to come up with genres through a process of cultural evolution that is far from static. If someone suggests there’s any truth to the criteria for a genre, I think it’s a measure of the strength of the consensus with respect to the genre’s criteria more than anything else.
People consistently come up with polarized titles for their threads presumably to initiate discussion. I would prefer a more open ended approach rather than dichotomies like true/false or unify/divide.
http://everynoise.com/engenremap.html
This
@InfoCheck, I actually added "true" as an afterthought. That word can go on the "redundant" thread as there is no difference between "What is the purpose" and "What is the true purpose".
So, please feel free to remove it in your mind.
And, yes, I guess you would prefer it if folks posted things to your tastes, no offense. But a lot of people just want to have a little fun (like me). Your comment strays from the thread topic and puts a damper on something just meant to be enlivening.
Genre is unifying in that it gathers like to like. It is disunifying because it separates like from unlike... and the overlap? Well, that is the topic, I guess.
I would prefer if posters would simply keep to the topic rather than raise issues about the justness or the expression of a topic again and again. Then again, I couldn't care less.
@gusgranite, that site is so amazing. How did he ever assemble such a thing? Thanks for sharing. Everyone should have a look at this. And it seems like no one should know more about genre than Glenn McDonald. Invite him to the forum? Very interesting articles which I will find time to read. Clearly, like everything else in today's world, genre is parsed to a Nanoslice... stunning in that I am sure to Bulgarians there are dozens of subcategories of the Bulgarian folk music he lists once. His map could be exponentially larger! Why am I surprised when there are seven billion bipeds walking around humming...something?
I view genre as a product of social classification applied to music. This is a different process than something like Pandora which is based upon algorithms and data collection although the correlation between the two may be more or less strong.
My replies on this forum are limited by trying to respect the limits @michael has asked us to abide by and not going out of my way to offend people. If my comments spoil someone else’s fun, I think they have more severe issues to address.
Good luck with trying to get people to respect your preferences with respect to staying on topic though it never hurts to ask.
Good grief @InfoCheck, please lighten up. I remember your saying you got yourself ( only in your own thoughts, as I recall) in trouble here when posting. You have said valuable stuff and have a lot to offer. Flexibility and acceptance, please. I dance to a different drum FX. Mine is pushed way toward wet. Yours is dry. Very dry. Ok, that's why there is a knob.
And please don't mix provocation into your comments, as in "severe issues to address". Especially when provocation is something you are speaking out against.
To categorise in order to avoid unnecessary earache.
I think genre was invented so they knew where to put the records in record stores.
Ok! Back on track!
I’m just sharing my point of view. Everyone has a right to their own as well.
That's a good guess: sales.
OT - You're going to make me cry. I miss record stores. "Used vinyl" just isn't the same. Tower Records in LA in the 1970's was so much fun. Tommy's Burgers on the way back to the OC.
OK. The True Purpose of Genre is to be able to write and speak about that which cannot be described so it must be compared to the known. Like comparing Oligurtz to Chow-Ming... see? Instant clarity. Otherwise Oligurtz would be unimaginable with a side of Chow-Ming.
@LinearLineMan, you ask questions that are multiple choice in nature with the list being infinite... and ask us to choose the right answer.
Jazz is not a genre. It's a religion.
I was so into Jazz that at one point just see double ZZ's would release endorphins... when I saw Pizza, or Zizzo's Coffee. Weird huh? But now it seems like a religious ritual to so many ways.
I'm going to hear some Jazz tonight and my wife will probably go and do Sudoku puzzles to stay awake. (That's love, huh).
What do I like about Jazz: everything and nothing.
Now, S&M Polkas are not a genre. They are a True Art form, Truly. Discuss.
This article articulate it way better than I ever could.
The Importance of Music Genres
https://ironskullet.com/2018/02/28/the-importance-of-music-genres/
Which? Where?
I think in general the article made some good points. Using a comparison to the biological classification system was stretching the point as cultural evolution is not so linear with respect to time nor as objective as biological evolution.
The sommelier reference is interesting as various studies have been done showing that how we label things can influence our perceptions of them. Similarly the process of assigning genres includes cultural components that aren’t objective which influence people’s perceptions. As with wine, many people may not be able to distinguish between various genres wheras others who are more focused and interested in them will.
Nevertheless the points of being able to increase our ability to find similar music we might enjoy and learning what distinguishes one genre from another can help us to appreciate the musician’s decision making process are useful.
to inform
I would prefer a world where there are no genres, just the music that I like, and that’s it. But I suspect I have to accommodate those other people too, although much of the time they like the incorrect stuff, it’s hard to stop them doing so, so there has to be a way to delineate the stuff I like and the other crap.
It’s similar to fruit. There’s fruit but a scientist would want further clarification – which fruit? You can’t just pop down the shops to buy fruit and come back with no idea which fruit you’ve bought, you have to know. Therefore we have bananas, apples and pears, grapes, oranges, strawberries and a few others (tomatoes aubergines and courgettes are fruits, apparently, also, bananas are berries, strawberries are not berries). You’d think the genres of fruits are more or less fixed, but a biologist sees a somewhat different set of sets than a fruitmonger or shopper.
I'm sure the romaine hates the Boston and they both hate the chicory. That's why chicory is so bitter, @u0421793, you have enlightened me once again!
I still can't get over that genre map. Who said it is a small world after all? Bullshit.
To me genres are truly stale and an actual limiting factor for many musicians. It is tribal to the point of absurdity: dress codes, mannerisms etc. If you're a metal head you need a certain looking guitar, if you're into punk you need not wash for a month or you're not authentic and so on and forth.
To me music has two genres: the one I like and the one I don't. The possible third might be the one I'm not completely ready to immerse myself in like ambient music but I'm getting there. Sub genres are functional: music to write to, music to dance and go crazy etc.
That's as a listener.
As a musician I just like it to groove and be slightly unusual and to be bringing something new and fresh to the picture. If there are perceived genres I like to mix them as one would blend flavours to make a dish. I know, a cheesy parallel (no pun) but that's how I see it.
I agree with marketing playing a big role but there's also subcultural tribalism that eventually ends up on shelves of supermarkets but by then the 'sub' is already somewhere else, I guess.
I’m willing to not reject the notion that it is essentially a class division, which allows pseudo-upper-class snootiness to flourish by pretending to actually like classical music, while looking down their noses at the commoners or foreigners revelling in their debauched primitive animalistic music. Other people have told me at various points in life that tastes change (no they don’t) and I might come to like some of the forms of art and music I’ve rejected as I learn more about it (no I didn’t). In conclusion, it all pretty much sucks, except for the stuff I like.
So true except it should be the music that I like. No need for anything else. Hahahaa
Is the double edged sword of discrimination (by which I mean discerning, or parsing, not racial or class) the best and worst thing that happened to human beings? Could we have survived without it? All animals have it. Even an amoeba. Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. But discrimination for animals (with exceptions, of course), other than humans, have only a single bladed sword of discrimination. How did we develop this extra, perhaps neurotic,, duality that leads to great advancements in the arts and the most brutal fear based hatred? In there, somewhere, I suspect is why we cling to genres as more than pure animalistic discrimination.
Yes, there is the taxonomy of genres, but isn't there something extra (as the zen guys might say) that we add to it? If you asked me I would suspect, much as Krishnamurti and Gutdjieff propounded ( along with a bevy of buxom Buddhists and assorted folderol), the extra is "identification" with the object. In this case the genre. Like everything else we latch onto it has to mean more than simply what it is. Because, whatever the reason, we are bound and determined to make it a reflection of ourselves. Just sayin...
this is a forum dude...let others have opinions provacative or not. trying to censor someone else is the most unacceptable thing I can think of on here as long as hes not going out of his way to offend.
Music genres are like colours, we name them, but there are blends which don’t always conform to the names we give them and different people see them differently.
A big ZZ Top fan then too, huh?