Drumming with FAC Envolver as MIDI Trigger (no scripting for RC275, GeoShred, SunRizer)

ecamburn

Sounds good @McD . Any quantization at all or is that all you?

McD

@ecamburn said:
Sounds good @McD . Any quantization at all or is that all you?

No quantization used. I probably should have. Tapping on the case makes it
hard to dial in the threshold level. With the TV on in the same room it added a few extra notes
but jazz drumming doesn't want to be predictable. So, a few notes are
from the evening news (about "The Mueller Report").

My wife finds the tapping annoying.
The cats don't seem to care.

Hopefully with sticks and maybe a sensitive mic I can insure all the notes are intended
and play some crisp jazz inspired "swing" grooves or Funk Drummer styles and feel like they represent
me.

McD

FYI: I put up a REQUEST for a StreamByter Script to allow the Envolver MIDI Stream to follow Accents.

I have a MIDI Stream coming from an App call FAC Envolver. It's configure to send the envelope of the microphone out constantly and when the envelope exceeds a threshold it sends out a MIDi Note On & Off Pair. I'd like to insert the CC7 value into the MIDI Note ON's Velocity setting which gets locked in at 127 without this requested change to the Stream. Can I see a Script to do this? I next CC 7 value after the NOTE ON should be good for the Velocity "re-write" on the outbound MIDI NOTE ON.

The use case is to use the iPad Mic to make a MIDI Drum trigger for MIDI Drums. With this change I'll be able to hear accented notes on a snare drum or loud vs soft cymbal crashes.

(Sample of the Envolver MIDI Stream with Envelope => CC7 and MIDI NOTE ON/OFF pairs generated when a mic level threshold is exceeded)

21036: CH1 CC 7 1
21036: CH1 CC 7 1
21036: CH1 CC 7 1
21036: CH1 CC 7 1
21036: CH1 CC 7 3
21036: CH1 NOTE ON 36 127
21036: CH1 CC 7 24
21036: CH1 CC 7 28
21036: CH1 CC 7 28
21036: CH1 CC 7 27
21036: CH1 CC 7 24
21036: CH1 NOTE OFF 36 0
21036: CH1 CC 7 19
21036: CH1 CC 7 15
21036: CH1 CC 7 15
21036: CH1 CC 7 12
21036: CH1 CC 7 10
21036: CH1 CC 7 8
21036: CH1 CC 7 7
21036: CH1 CC 7 6
21036: CH1 CC 7 5

We should see a sample of code in a day or 2. If anyone wants to take a shot at it please comment in some code here for testing.

FredAntonCorvest

Sorry for the late reply

@Hmtx said:
I think FAC would have to add a new feature that sends note velocity data based on amplitude of the signal that is above the threshold.

This is already in the new features I plan to add to Fac Envolver, can't provide timing.

@McD could you please contact me on https://twitter.com/fac_corvest

MrBlaschke

I like that TableDrum-Thing
Regarding the looping problem i tried something inside AUM - looks doable:

Setup and AUM file-sharing could be explained and done if there is interest.

ecamburn

@FredAntonCorvest said:
Sorry for the late reply

@Hmtx said:
I think FAC would have to add a new feature that sends note velocity data based on amplitude of the signal that is above the threshold.

This is already in the new features I plan to add to Fac Envolver, can't provide timing.

That’s great news.

Hmtx

@MrBlaschke said:
I like that TableDrum-Thing
Regarding the looping problem i tried something inside AUM - looks doable:
Setup and AUM file-sharing could be explained and done if there is interest.

Nice video great idea to use Atom as the MIDI looper. How are you separating the “table-tap” from the “snap” to get two separate triggers?

Hmtx

I’m glad to see that my idea has inspired some solutions. This is awesome. It really is pretty amazing how responsive this can be when set up properly.

Sorry I didn’t have time to post more details originally but it looks like you’ve got the idea and run with it @McD. Here’s a screenshot of what I have been working on:

• Tap the dish of coins = snare
• tap thumb on table = kick
• tap pen on table = hi-hat

its magic

Note, this is a live set-up to play drum samples in ThumbJam, there’s no MIDI recording (or you could record and loop inside ThumbJam I guess)

Here are the EQ settings for each separate trigger:

MrBlaschke

@Hmtx
I did set up 2 channels and filtered away unnecessary frequencies to identify 2 „areas“.

Then i fed those into each ATOM so the „left“ Atom gets low frequencies and the „right“ one gets the „high“ frequencies.

You can do this with any other EQ - you don’t need Fabfilter EQ.
I just used it because it is convenient to see the ranges and visually select the frequencies.
Technically you can achieve the same with the AUM internal HP/LP combination.
It just needs more „fiddling“ as you have to find your „frequency areas“ blindly.

Feeding each channel to separate ATOMs

If you find more „frequencies“ to separate you can set up more individual channels this way.

The „Instruments“ (bs-16 and Ruismaker FM) only get signals from ATOM!
If you connect them to the „frequency lanes“ you miss the recorded notes and if you connect them to both (frequency lanes and ATOM) you get nasty double triggers. So even if you are not recording and the transport is not playing ATOM makes sure to feed the audio - because it is on „Thru“ mode if it is doing nothing.

Hmtx

Yeah, looks good @MrBlaschke

Pro-Q2 makes it super easy to do all this because of the visual display of the waveforms and the easy to understand choices for each EQ node. “Bell Surgical” plus “high cut” and “low cut” are all you need to isolate a specific frequency.

MrBlaschke

So we had a nearly identical setup @Hmtx
Good one

eross

so fab filter works outside of Auria daw? what? is it ipad only?

McD

@eross said:
so fab filter works outside of Auria daw? what? is it ipad only?

FabFilter created an AUv3 EQ called "Pro-Q 2" and it's currently on sale for 40% off at $18.
Works outside (and inside) Auria Pro.

Hmtx

@eross said:
fab filter works outside of Auria daw? what?

We all wish it were that easy FabFilter have released one single AUv3 app, Pro-Q 2 available on iOS, yes it is iPad only, and hands down is the most “pro” iPad audio app I own, perfectly executed for iPad.

All their other plugins have only been released as proprietary plugins inside of Auria. We’re hoping to see them all get the AUv3 re-write, but no word yet on which ones are coming or when...

audio_DT

I can’t get this to work for the life of me. Is there something dead simple I’m doing wrong, like some kind of easy-to-make error? I so want to get this bugger to work!

McD

@audeonic provided a StreamByter script to merge the envelope value with the MIDI NOTE ON "Velocity" setting. I haven't tested it yet.

if LOAD
  ASS L0 = 0 # init array
END

9X XX 00 = 8X
IF MT == 90
  # note on - remember and block it
  ASS L0 = M0 M1
  XX = XX +B
END

IF M0 == B0 07
  # got cc7
  IF L0 != 0
    # we have queued note, send it
    # with CC's value as velocity
    SND L0 L1 M2
    ASS L0 = 0
  END
END

Hmtx

@audio_DT said:
I can’t get this to work for the life of me. Is there something dead simple I’m doing wrong, like some kind of easy-to-make error? I so want to get this bugger to work!

I often forget to set up the MIDI routing matrix in AUM. You’ve got to connect the Envolver instances with your destination drum app to receive the MIDI notes.

Then also make sure that Envolver is sending notes that correspond to the correct note to trigger the drum pad or sample.

Hmtx

@McD said:
@audeonic provided a StreamByter script to merge the envelope value with the MIDI NOTE ON "Velocity" setting. I haven't tested it yet.

That’s great! I don’t have streambyter but this would be very cool if it works.

McD

@Hmtx said:

@McD said:
@audeonic provided a StreamByter script to merge the envelope value with the MIDI NOTE ON "Velocity" setting. I haven't tested it yet.

That’s great! I don’t have streambyter but this would be very cool if it works.

Fred (of FAC) will serve up an update to tie the envelope (or at least a configurable velocity setting) to the NOTE ON output. I think there's a standalone App here as well just for drummers. The hardware solutions
for MIDI triggering are pretty expensive and typically involve a fixed purpose hardware box to convert impulses to samples and/or MIDI events. The Bop-pad just outputs USB MIDI so it's a good trigger for iPad users but costs $200.

There's a lot of testing we should do around various microphones too. We can get 2 channels just by using stereo. There are low cost acoustic guitar pickups that might be useful to input transients.

Hmtx

Yeah, I just bought a pack of 4 of these a few weeks ago:
Piezo mics from China, about $2 each.

With 4 inputs on my audio interface it would be easy to put together a 4-piece drum kit I was kinda waiting for Drambo (which will have the basics of Impaktor). Or even better if Impaktor would be released as AUv3... but not sure that will ever happen, or might not even be necessary if Drambo has enough capability to replace it.

In the meantime, FAC Envolver makes a decent alternative, especially after velocity is added

McD

@Hmtx said:
I was kinda waiting for Drambo (which will have the basics of Impaktor). Or even better if Impaktor would be released as AUv3... but not sure that will ever happen, or might not even be necessary if Drambo has enough capability to replace it.

How cool would it be to have a lot of choices? I didn't catch this detail about Drambo. I'm glad I didn't because "Waiting for Drambot" is a tragic-comic play by Beckett. Drambo never shows up. I could be spelling that name wrong but it's French and the "t" is silent. (BeepStreet will re-write this classic).

McD

The StreamByter script works to change the MIDI NOTE ON Velocity and in practice it
sends a velocity value that's close to the Envolver Threshold.

For a little more latency the script could be modified to capture the peak of the Envelope which would effectively create a single MIDI Stream that generates accents and variations in volume.

It will also be nice to filter out the CC stream since the drum app, I'm using, doesn't need it.

Some Drum Machines would respond to CC 7's as a volume knob control. I should send the
FC Envolver into Ruismaker Noir for example and see if the volume varies with the MIDI Stream.

I have asked for 2 changes to the script on @audeonic's Forum. My drum pad just arrived so I'll test that for using stick quietly and see how many strokes-per-minute FAC Envolver can track. If it get's close to a buzz roll I'll bereally stoked.

I have one of those cheap guitar transducers around here somewhere to clip onto the pad.

McD

OK. I tested FAC Envolver with some sticks on a Practice Pad (which you could play at midnight while people sleep).

This is FAC Envolver feeding a SnareDrum sample in AudioLayer at a the fixed Note Velocity of 127 (default for FAC Envolver).

This was recorded by just laying the iPad on the drum pad and using sticks at the edge of the foam pad. No mic or external transducer involved and it wouldn't matter if it was. It would be useful to produce larger impulses and to protect the iPad from damage.

A Flam is a 2 hand gesture with the first note being soft and the second louder. You will hear 2 rapid notes but they don't follow the initial volume (yet). Then it ends with a Roll using double strokes. The crush roll which would sound like a flurry of very soft notes isn't possible (yet) because of tracking and volume issues. There might be drum samples that smooth out the strokes and simulate crushed rools more effectively. The CC streaming is also running but only serves to reduce the volume without any variation in the notes. I should record with it turned off to see if FAC Envolver can track at a faster rate. It's good to leave it on as a workaround for Accents: A StreamByter update will probably be the next big improvement in realism for drummers to be able to play the "WipeOut" tom-tom solo which is the first "Level" test in "Drum Hero" on the Atari 64.

McD

ACCENTS! @audeonic (Nic) created an update for the StreamByter Script to use the CC 7 Envelope "peak" value as the MIDI NOTE ON velocity value. It results in Accents on the Snare Drum (and any other instrument configured as a target).

Here's a sound sample. The note tracking has dropped significantly due to extra overhead and the extra latency of waiting for the peak but still pretty useful for typical rhythm drum playing just not great for "rolls". Most of the Flams come through with the correct dynamics and a few get missed.

Here's Nic's StreamByter script for the record:

# StreamByter - Audeonic Apps
IF LOAD
  ASS L0 = 0 # init array used to store the NOTE ON values
END

9X XX 00 = 8X

# look for NOTE ON events
IF MT == 90 
  # note on - remember and block it
  ASS L0 = M0 M1 0
  XX = XX +B
END

IF M0 == B0 07
  # got a cc7 - change the '7' above to use any CC from FAC Envolver
  # After the peak the CC value will be lower than the previous value saved in L2
  IF M2 < L2
    IF L0 != 0
      # we have a saved NOTE ON in L0 , send NOTE ON with note and the peak value as velocity (L2)
      # with CC's value as velocity
      SND L0 L1 L2
      ASS L0 = 0
      ASS I0 = 0
    END
  END
  IF M2 > L2
    ASS L2 = M2
  END
  # Uncomment this line to all Block CC traffic
  # XX = XX +B
END

McD

Dual Thresholds in FAC Envolver to send 2 Different MIDI Notes - unlink the 2 channels and set different thresholds
and different MIDi Notes per channel. I set accents for Open Hi-Hats (A#2) and Closed for lower volume taps (F#2).

Upper Threshold (Hi-Hat Open)
Lower Threshold (Hi-Hat Closed)

McD

@MrBlaschke said:
I like that TableDrum-Thing
Regarding the looping problem i tried something inside AUM - looks doable:

Setup and AUM file-sharing could be explained and done if there is interest.

Yes. Show us your set up and AUM config please.

MrBlaschke

@McD said:

@MrBlaschke said:
I like that TableDrum-Thing
Regarding the looping problem i tried something inside AUM - looks doable:

Setup and AUM file-sharing could be explained and done if there is interest.

Yes. Show us your set up and AUM config please.

The description is a bit higher in this thread, the AUM Project is on my Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jyaq7k864qycq4/TableDrums 001-share.aumproj?dl=0

McD

@MrBlaschke said:
The description is a bit higher in this thread, the AUM Project is on my Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jyaq7k864qycq4/TableDrums 001-share.aumproj?dl=0

Thanks. I'm learning to appreciate the value of a good AUM Project file.
It's going to be great when we can save and load sub-Projects like our favorite
Channel Strip of FX.

audio_DT

@Hmtx said:

@audio_DT said:
I can’t get this to work for the life of me. Is there something dead simple I’m doing wrong, like some kind of easy-to-make error? I so want to get this bugger to work!

I often forget to set up the MIDI routing matrix in AUM. You’ve got to connect the Envolver instances with your destination drum app to receive the MIDI notes.

Then also make sure that Envolver is sending notes that correspond to the correct note to trigger the drum pad or sample.

Thanks - I’ll check this.

McD

@audio_DT said:
I can’t get this to work for the life of me.

Sending the MIDI of Envolver out to the free "MIDI Spy" App will
help you insure you have the right settings and threshold. You want to see NOTE ON and OFF events. AUM will let you MONITOR and PLAY the same MIDI Stream with it's flexible MIDI Routing capability.

Connecting the Keyboard to the Drum App will help pick the right note to configure for the sound you want to Tap into a Looper. Atom will let you layer
drum notes to build a whole drumset MIDI Loop.