Drumming with FAC Envolver as MIDI Trigger (no scripting for RC275, GeoShred, SunRizer)

FredAntonCorvest

Love this thread!

McD

@FredAntonCorvest said:

Adding details from the Envelope to the MIDI Velocity will be amazing.
If you could consider adding Frequency detection that would simulate multi-pad
MIDI Drum products like the Bop-pad.

It doesn't have to be an Update but maybe a labeled "MIDI Drum Trigger" App.

It's cool that you probably didn't know this was a use case. Drummer's got replaced years ago in EDM but they are still out there buying and tapping away in the physical world.
They will buy Apps that save them money to trigger samples and play E-Drums.

McD

Until the new product/update the StreamByter fix allows Accents in the MIDI Velocity with
decent response times. Thanks @audeonic for the code.

McD

NO SCRIPTING VERSION: I know using StreamByter turns some people off so I tried some generic MIDI Tools.

I have:

1. "FAC Envolver" so the Mic envelope goes out as CC 7's with a Volume Value
2. "mfxConvert" - CC 7's get converted to MIDI Notes "C2" and Volume is Velocity out
3. next I added "MIDI Curve" with it's GATE to drop the notes below Velocity = 20.
4. next I insert "mfxPitch" and add more notes (-7 and +10 semitones)
5. next "mfxWobble" to add some bends (not sure this shows up but MPE would)
6. next "MIDI Echo" to create more MIDI Mayhem
7. Target: Ravenscroft 275 Piano

Only 1,2,3 and 7 and required. 4-6 are for extra notes. Any MIDI Generator might be inserted for interesting FX and to add scales.

I call the results Drummer Locked in the Ravenscroft 275 Piano.
I played it by banging on the table next to the iPad.

I put Wobble after the Echo and put the MPE capable GeoShred in the Target slot of
the MIDI chain (I lost the balance but you'll get the idea):

Then "SunRizer" in Arp Mode Wobbing like crazy:

Martinj

@McD the „drummer inside Piano“ thing is really, really cool...I‘ll have to try that when I‘m back from holiday (where I‘ll be going in about an hour) 😊

McD

@Martinj said:
@McD the „drummer inside Piano“ thing is really, really cool...I‘ll have to try that when I‘m back from holiday (where I‘ll be going in about an hour) 😊

Let me know which MIDI FX you use. I think a MIDI FX to Gate away the low level will be essential so you only get NOTE events above a threshold. FAC Envolver will give you a single
NOTE option at a fixed Velocity = 127 which is OK but accents in the MIDI Stream make it sound like a human beating on a drum. I used "MIDI Curve" for my Gate.

The other approach is to send the Envelope Stream and the MIDI NOTES generated from the
cross-over of the Threshold to the @Audeonic stream bytes app.

I learned that mfxConvert can change the CC's to MIDI notes and the CC (Envelope level) is inserted into the MIDI NOTE so you get Accents. The one detail is that you get every envelope value -> Note for the curve above the threshold. Which is practical terms seems to
sustain the note with a dozen re-starts. That could bury a synth on using every available voice and have side-effects.

I'm looking forward to your experiments and discoveries. @FredAntonCorvest will probably
reach you for "beta" testing when the time comes. I wouldn't be surprised if he simply
makes another App targeted at this use case since FAC Envolver is brilliant and probably poorly understood. Are there other Apps that do similar envelope to CC's or MIDI's?

Please make a video in the fashion of your Guitar Swells with an AUM Project file... load it up with Apps that increase the complexity because that encourages us to have similar toolsets for similar interests. I don't know how many MIDI FX various DAW's are limited to but AUM/AB3 can make huge chains of FX. The next update of AUM will organize them vertically and that will make Videos easier to understand. Right now you'll have to show the MIDI map and it's X's and flow lines.

Do you have more videos are are you just getting started making these demo/training projects?

ecamburn

@McD I really appreciate your continued experimentation and sharing your process. I'm keeping an eye on this thread in hopes that coming updates to Envolver will deliver a more elegant solution.

McD

@ecamburn said:
@McD I really appreciate your continued experimentation and sharing your process. For me personally, a complex MIDI fx chain is approaching the "fiddling" factor of firing up a MIDI drum pad. I'm keeping an eye on this thread in hopes that coming updates to Envolver will deliver a more elegant solution.

At a minimum you need:
FAC Envolver to An App (setting thresholds on the Gate will get you notes at 127)

For accents (touch velocity) you need:
StreamByter
or
MIDI Curve to GATE the Envelope Stream + mfxConvert to put CCs in NOTES)

Everything else is for additional complexity in the MIDI.

I have requested a StreamByter script to buffer notes from a MIDI Generator like
Rozeta Cells and output them with each TAP coming from Envolver imposing the users
rhythmic playing on the NOTES sounding in the Synth App... adding polyphony is a small tweak but putting them in groups of 2 or more. I'm expecting Nic to step up in a day or two
depending on his priorities.

This will make the output more chordal and less like just random hammering on the piano.

An acoustic guitar player could tap the guitar or even the strings and produce an envelope to generate scale based rhythms. A beat boxer could do the same with the iPad mic.

Still a lot of ideas to explore with Transients converted to MIDI involving pitch.

The mfxTools were on my iPad waiting for me to see what they could add. mfxWobble into an MPE Synth is really interesting... 2 octave pitch bends for example. Some might like that with a really slow LFO.

Just having fun Hacking new sounds and UI's.

Martinj

@McD said:

Do you have more videos are are you just getting started making these demo/training projects?

Here‘s a video I did about „Frippertronics Style Looping on iOS (also with downloadable preset):

And a basic introduction into AUM:

You can also find a lot of performance stuff and some more tutorials on my YouTube channel....

Greetings from Italy...just using the WiFi of a Cafe at the moment...😊

Hmtx

@McD I still have not purchased Streambyter but I realized that I do have Rozeta Suite which includes a “Scaler” MIDI app. I’ve been able to send Envolver notes through Scaler and send the Envolver MIDI CCs to control Scaler’s “force velocity to” parameter. And it WORKS! The notes sent out from Scaler are velocity driven by Envolver. And to be honest, this is the closest I have been to “feels like Impaktor” aside from actually playing Impaktor. It really is that good.

In this quick test I’m sending notes from Envolver through Scaler, on to Sunrizer synth. Works great inside AUM.

[edit] Oh wow, I took some more time to fine tune things and this is just too much fun. It’s like discovering Impaktor all over again, but I can play any synth I want.

Interestingly, it helped to use two instances of Envolver, with a 6ms delay on the instance sending notes so that the envelope signals go through just a tiny bit ahead of the “note on” message. It seems to make things more expressive (Thanks to the new Stereo Lag app for an easy way to add between 1 - 250 ms delay)

McD

I created another variation I call "Drumming MIDI FX".

Here's an example of me Drumming out the Rhythms that get merged with Notes
generated from Fugue Machine (A minor Pentatonic scale selected).

NOTE: You don't have to Drum you can use any App to drive FAC Envolver and
get new Rhythmic variations that way.

Here's an AUM Project file if you'd like to give it a run:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09baoiqpzbaf5nc/drumming midi fx.aumproj?dl=0

Apps used:
FAC Envolver (to detect the drumming/tapping or any spikey audio source)
BS-16i with a piano loaded
StreamByter (will the code come across? I'll paste it below to be sure)
MIDI-Spy (used to debug the MIDI Flows)
Fugue Machine (any MIDI Generator will do)
MIDI Echo (fun to add extra complexity... not used on the recording so non-essential)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09baoiqpzbaf5nc/drumming midi fx.aumproj?dl=0

StreamByter Script:

# StreamByter - Audeonic Apps
IF LOAD
  ASS L0 = 0 # init array
END

9X XX 00 = 8X
IF MT == 90
  # note on - remember and block it
  ASS L0 = M0 M1 0
  XX = XX +B
END

IF MT == 80
  # note off - block it
  XX = XX +B
END

IF M0 == B0 07
  # got cc7
  IF M2 > 10
    IF M2 < L2
      IF L0 != 0
        # we have queued note, send it
        # with CC's value as velocity
        SND L0 L1 L2
        SND 80 L1 L2 +D500
        ASS L0 = 0
        ASS I0 = 0
      END
    END
    IF M2 > L2
      ASS L2 = M2
    END
  END
  XX = XX +B
END

espiegel123

@McD : you can probably get your tabletop drumming to the next level by using it to feed something that uses round-robining and velocity layering so that the eighth and sixteenth notes vary in ways other than volume..

McD

@espiegel123 said:
@McD : you can probably get your tabletop drumming to the next level by using it to feed something that uses round-robining and velocity layering so that the eighth and sixteenth notes vary in ways other than volume..

I'll take your advice and build a kit in AudioLayer with great samples as I find them. I tend to play pretty evenly on a ride but I can use velocity trick to get different ride regions from edge to bell or spread the regions across an upper octave.

Experiments with round-robin to see how that feels when I play are on the list.

espiegel123

@McD said:

@espiegel123 said:
@McD : you can probably get your tabletop drumming to the next level by using it to feed something that uses round-robining and velocity layering so that the eighth and sixteenth notes vary in ways other than volume..

I'll take your advice and build a kit in AudioLayer with great samples as I find them. I tend to play pretty evenly on a ride but I can use velocity trick to get different ride regions from edge to bell or spread the regions across an upper octave.

Experiments with round-robin to see how that feels when I play are on the list.

To put it together in AL, you will need to do some round-robining. It might be more efficient to look into something like DrumPerfect Pro or another app that already has a nice engine geared towards drumming.

I wonder of the SoftDrummer use round-robining, etc. when it is set up to respond to MIDI. The BeatHawk drums might be set up that way. I am not sure.

McD

@espiegel123 said:
To put it together in AL, you will need to do some round-robining. It might be more efficient to look into something like DrumPerfect Pro or another app that already has a nice engine geared towards drumming.

DPP looks great. I picked up DrumJam and love the all the hand drums and world percussion.

I wonder of the SoftDrummer use round-robining, etc. when it is set up to respond to MIDI.

I can't seem to find Ride Cymbals as a choice in SoftDrummer. I have had good
results sending it's MIDI out to Drum Kits and pointing the MIDi patterns for Brushes at Ride Cymbals in Apps like Gadget/Gladstone. I just need to find targets for all the toms etc so the fills sound right.

The BeatHawk drums might be set up that way. I am not sure.

I've used them as targets as well. But DPP looks like the best automated, programmable drum kit app.

BroCoast

Bump!

So I plan to use it like this:

Kick drum mic to FAC Envolver envelope follower
FAC envolver send MIDI note to 0 Coast
O Coast gate output to keystep sync input
keystep to Minitaur

This should allow me to advance steps in a sequence on the keystep with bass drum hits while simultaneously triggering a kick sound on the O Coast.

This is possible right?

I don't need to do anything fancy just trigger a midi note.

MikeLee

Has Velocity been implemented yet?

Think about triggering sounds via live drums and microphones.

McD

@MikeLee said:
Has Velocity been implemented yet?

No. But Drambo has since come out and it's got the "Drumapaktor" examples which
can get you there.

I was hoping @FredAntonCorvest would update or modify FAC Envolver to send peak volumes
with the MIDI note option but he has not.

Think about triggering sounds via live drums and microphones.

The Streambyter script shown here along with FAC Envolver supplying a CC stream for volumes
still works to convert "drum impulses" to MIDI Notes with mapped velocities. It should be
hard to convert to Mozaic but Nick helped make this all happen for me and I don't have the
heart to convert his code. It just feels wrong to me. But maybe it's time.

rs2000

@McD said:

@MikeLee said:
Has Velocity been implemented yet?

No. But Drambo has since come out and it's got the "Drumapaktor" examples which
can get you there.

I missed that too in Envolver (as well as more usable frequency ranges in FAC Bandit...).

Here's a simple iDevice microphone to MIDI note + velocity trigger that I made a few weeks ago:

https://patchstorage.com/simple-trigger-to-midi/

The tricky part is that you usually want both low latency and correct velocity response which are somewhat conflicting for "slower" transients.

McD

@rs2000 said:

@McD said:

@MikeLee said:
Has Velocity been implemented yet?

No. But Drambo has since come out and it's got the "Drumapaktor" examples which
can get you there.

I missed that too in Envolver (as well as more usable frequency ranges in FAC Bandit...).

Here's a simple iDevice microphone to MIDI note + velocity trigger that I made a few weeks ago:

https://patchstorage.com/simple-trigger-to-midi/

The tricky part is that you usually want both low latency and correct velocity response which are somewhat conflicting for "slower" transients.

Nice. I'll check it out. Your Drambo skills are epic. You just keep producing cool "patches".